Posts by dozy

40

Relationship with God

by dozy in

jw
friends

just a general question , really.. i'm an active witness who is questioning & researching - unsure of any conclusions yet.

i've spoken to a couple of former apostates who have been reinstated as to why they returned (as i know that very few do) and the summary of their conclusions is given below.

i would appreciate your comments.. ...essentially they had a strong relationship with god and felt that this was the paramount purpose in life.

dozy

Busy schedule , Diamond! No wonder you aren't in any longer.

I learnt a long time ago from observing how my father "burnt out" truthwise that it was necessary to manage the time more effectively as a witness on the "better a live dog than a dead lion" principle. I've spoken to some other elders who adopt similar "management" principles.

To summarise - I rarely discuss the days text with the children (sometimes my wife does it) and have developed a system to churn out talks very quickly for the Thursday meeting & spend perhaps 30 minutes tops on pre-study. I only go out once at the weekend (it helps that Sunday ministry has virtually died out here). Watchtower study is done on a Sunday morning in front of "Match of the Day" and I just read over the Tuesday book study (the Daniel book is underlined anyway). My concern is whether I should be studying more with my family but I rationalise this away by thinking of my own childhood where my parents rarely studied directly with me and my sisters but were immersed in the "way of the truth" and this had the desired effect.

40

Relationship with God

by dozy in

jw
friends

just a general question , really.. i'm an active witness who is questioning & researching - unsure of any conclusions yet.

i've spoken to a couple of former apostates who have been reinstated as to why they returned (as i know that very few do) and the summary of their conclusions is given below.

i would appreciate your comments.. ...essentially they had a strong relationship with god and felt that this was the paramount purpose in life.

dozy

Thanks for your reply , Diamond.

I can't speak for the couple who returned but as far as living an enjoyable life is concerned , I've never heard "personal pursuits" being described as wrong , simply a need to keep them in balance. I've got a few hobbies and interests and will be sitting with a couple of beers & mates watching the Chelsea match tonight.

I do feel personally that prayers I have given have been answered although I agree that it is often intangible & difficult to establish for sure.

For me , the primary aim is to do what Jesus said was the greatest commandment "Love Jh your God with your whole soul ..." and whether this can be accomplished outwith Jehovah's witnesses.

23

What happens if someone gets sick at an Assembly?

by MinisterAmos in

jw
friends

i keep meaning to ask one of the super dubs this question, but i'm afraid it will "stumble" them.

in the weeks before assembly we are given the list of do's and don'ts at ministry school.

one of the instructions is always something like "if you notice that a person has become ill (has an attack etc.

dozy

In th UK , the Health & Safety legislation is very strict. At every large assembly , there are 1 or 2 ambulances on-site and all First Aid staff are fully trained. Usually witnesses who work in hospitals are involved in first aid - a sister in my congregation volunteers (she is the senior nurse in a large old folks home).

For the circuit assemblies we have nurses , pharmacists and a GP (general practitioner = family doctor) on the First Aid desk.

I would imagine the suggestion not to call 911 or 999 is valid to prevent numerous brothers dialing on their mobile phones - I've seen this happen at car accidents & it creates tremendous confusion.

A side point - statistically you would expect about 1 person per 10000 per 3 day convention to die - perhaps it does increase slightly for the reasons mentioned. "Died with their boots on" is the traditional expression!

40

Relationship with God

by dozy in

jw
friends

just a general question , really.. i'm an active witness who is questioning & researching - unsure of any conclusions yet.

i've spoken to a couple of former apostates who have been reinstated as to why they returned (as i know that very few do) and the summary of their conclusions is given below.

i would appreciate your comments.. ...essentially they had a strong relationship with god and felt that this was the paramount purpose in life.

dozy

Just a general question , really.

I'm an active witness who is questioning & researching - unsure of any conclusions yet. I've spoken to a couple of former apostates who have been reinstated as to why they returned (as I know that very few do) and the summary of their conclusions is given below. I would appreciate your comments.

...Essentially they had a strong relationship with God and felt that this was the paramount purpose in life. Although they left and associated with other ex-witnesses, even going to some gatherings , they found that most had left any form of religion or belief behind and became interested in a "wordly life" ie having a good time , hobbies , career , education etc. The language and morals of many (though by no means not all) had deteriorated. Although some had "found Jesus" , none of them had maintained any relationship with the Creator and many even had atheistic and / or agnostic feelings.

My friends decided , after a few years of this , that despite their misgivings , a true relationship with a Creator could only be found within worship in accord with Jehovah's witnesses and decided to restore their position. This took a tremendous effort , as you can imagine. They are now in good standing and doing very well , happier than ever before.

I've read a few of your disassociation letters which often include phrases like "I still love Jehovah" and equivalent. Have any of you managed to maintain a strong relationship with the Creator (whom you may or may not still call Jehovah , Yahweh or similar) externally from Jehovah's witnesses. If so , how?

128

listing of authorities and their date for the fall of Jerusalem

by M.J. in

sorry if this has been posted before.

i came across it and thought it was worth pointing out: http://members.tripod.com/sosoutreach/wts/607.html.

(edited) the annoying popup caused me to cut and paste the table from the page, rather than embed it: the narrative before and after is good too so you might want to check it out the original page.

dozy

I still stand by my "364 economists" argument. These economists based their view on a harmonious reading of established economic trends and financial analysis. I stress to a previous poster that there was very little , if any , disagreement. The problem was that they were working from the same bases , which turned out to be at fault.

We used to have a big Bob Hope fan in my workplace & a few years ago we decided to play a trick on him. 4 workmates and I decided to pretend that BH had died (some time before he actually did!). I told the workmate the "sad news" & a few minute later a colleague came in & said "I've just heard that BH has died." The view was confirmed by a couple of others & the BH fan was distraught. Only when he went home that night & turned on the news , looking for reports , did he realised he had been conned - he admitted that he had been totally convinced. Why? Because he had been relying on 3 or 4 sources , all of which backed up each other. Like the economists (& possibly like the historians) he was wrong.

It is entirely possible , especially relating to dating of events 2,600 years ago , based on perhaps 2 or 3 primary sources which may have been related on each other , that the historians have got this date wrong. The dating of 586 / 587 is described as "probable" or "very probable" , so there is an acknowledged element of doubt in this figure. Historians have in the past been wrong about the existence of Pilate , Sargon , Belshazzar and numerous other characters and dates.

128

listing of authorities and their date for the fall of Jerusalem

by M.J. in

sorry if this has been posted before.

i came across it and thought it was worth pointing out: http://members.tripod.com/sosoutreach/wts/607.html.

(edited) the annoying popup caused me to cut and paste the table from the page, rather than embed it: the narrative before and after is good too so you might want to check it out the original page.

dozy

The 364 "wrong" economists is a well-known account which has numerous web pages devoted to it: - eg

http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/index.php/blog/individual/money_money_money_always_and_everywhere/

What it illustrates is the capability of an overwhelming body of "expert" opinion to come to an erroneous judgement or opinion , based on peer pressure , prejudice or other factors. The WTS admit openly that 607 BCE is not a date that most historians would accept - the "Kingdom Come" book is clear on this. The methadology as to how JWs come to this date is clearly set out - you either accept it (it is quite fundamental to witness doctrine - eg 1914) or you don't.

128

listing of authorities and their date for the fall of Jerusalem

by M.J. in

sorry if this has been posted before.

i came across it and thought it was worth pointing out: http://members.tripod.com/sosoutreach/wts/607.html.

(edited) the annoying popup caused me to cut and paste the table from the page, rather than embed it: the narrative before and after is good too so you might want to check it out the original page.

dozy

I've read several times about how virtually all historians are agreed that 586/587 is the date for the fall of Jerusalem.

Is it possible for a large body of experts and an overwhelming prevailing view to be wrong? Yes - I was at college in London in 1981 when 364 economists wrote the letter referred to below. Every single economist was wrong.

"To restart the economy, Thatcher instituted a fierce attack on the British deficit, coupled with an expansionary monetary policy. Her moves were immediately condemned by 364 distinguished economists. In a letter to the Times of London, they wrote: "Present policies will deepen the depression, erode the industrial base of our economy and threaten its social and political stability." Thatcher was quickly vindicated. No sooner had the 364 affixed their signatures than the economy boomed. People had confidence in Britain again. "

256

New Video of DF announcement at door

by inbyathread in

jw
friends

starting a new thread so that everyone can find the link.. this is the video of the elders trying to act smart stupid.

http://www.savefile.com/files2.php?fid=5509435.

they will keep the file as long as it is downloaded once every 14 days.. enjoy

dozy

"If someone stops identifying themselves as a Baptist to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, other Baptists can still talk to them even though they are apostates. The same is true for Catholics, Buddhists, Shinto, and oh so many others."

Poor argument. Many leave the JW religion every year and any witness can speak to them.

The individual hasn't just left the JW religion - he actively canvasses against it in local churches. Any Catholic who actively preached in Protestant churches denouncing his former religion as a cult would very quickly be excommunicated from his church. A former Baptist that I know who is now one of Jehovah's witnesses is virtually shunned by people she used to to church with.

How do you interpret the scripture which talks about "Not even saying a greeting" to such ones? To what kind of people shouldn't we speak to?

256

New Video of DF announcement at door

by inbyathread in

jw
friends

starting a new thread so that everyone can find the link.. this is the video of the elders trying to act smart stupid.

http://www.savefile.com/files2.php?fid=5509435.

they will keep the file as long as it is downloaded once every 14 days.. enjoy

dozy

A few questions........

Why didn't the DF person invite the elders in?

Why did he lie and say that he hadn't received the letters?

I checked his posts and the DF person says that he has visited several churches and offered to give talks and provide literature that is anti-JW. Did he really expect not to be DF?

I looked at Danny Hazard's site that now hosts the video. Wow! How effective is this aggressive approach in trying to get JWs out of the religion? I would have run a mile!

I felt quite sorry for the elders - they were trying to do their job and had a camera stuck in their face and a sarcastic , taunting individual who clearly didn't treat their visit seriously. How would you ex-elders have handled a situation like this?

98

I think many of you will return to the religion one day

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i don't mean this as an insult, more of a life experience thing.

i saw a lot of people leave in my years there and a lot were angry with the religion and the people, and some even protested the kingdom halls and wrote things in the newspapers.

a lot though, came back in time, as it was just the comfort zone they felt at ease in.

dozy

We've just had a couple reinstated who were "dyed-in-the-wool" apostates , although the process took quite a while.