Posts by dozy

38

Watchtower Change On Origins from 42,000 Years to the "Day Age" Theory

by Sea Breeze in

does anyone know when and how the change took place?

is the "day age" theory still the current position of watchtower?.

dozy

Not sure they officially abandoned the 49,000 years of creation idea, they just stopped talking about it.

That's a common WT Society tactic - Franz mentions it in one of his books that a GB member ( Schroeder , I think ) if the Society just stop talking about something then the "brothers" soon forget about it. It must be even easier nowadays that the religion is so dumbed down.

Even the 7,000 year long last creative day , which we assume is still a Society teaching , is looking a bit shaky now and getting even more farcical by the minute. According to "WT bible chronology" (lol) , the first 6,000 years ended in 1975 ( hence the famous" Armageddon is nigh , sell your house" etc nonsense of the late 60's / early 70's ) so already over 45 years of the last 1000 "millennial" reign has gone. This also means Adam was alone for at least 45 years. No wonder he was pleased to see Eve!

18

Accepting the reason why the Watchtower Corporation and its top leaders are endeavored to brainwash people

by Rocketman123 in

taking a close look at the operation of the jws religion you can observe technics of brainwashing orchestrated through the literature the wts publishes for its members such as the watchtower .. everything these men have done had calculating agendas, which were to firstly attract attention to the literature they published, to cultivate power toward themselves, to intentionally take control over people's lives and of course draw in money.. brainwashing (also known as mind control, menticide, coercive persuasion, thought control, thought reform, and re-education) is the concept that the human mind can be altered or controlled by certain psychological techniques.

brainwashing is said to reduce its subjects' ability to think critically or independently,[1] to allow the introduction of new, unwanted thoughts and ideas into their minds,[2] as well as to change their attitudes, values and beliefs.

dozy

There does seem to be something of a step change in recent years - even recent months during Covid.

Even I was surprised at the latest broadcasts. They have a woman (the wife of a "helper to the GB" ) talking about how she "donated her last $50 and received "blessings". Another talked about going through a hard time and suddenly getting an envelope with "exactly to the cent the money she needed" . And a host of other similar interviews. That's straight out of the playbook of the "TV Evangelist" preachers whom the Society were so critical of in the 1980s & 90s. I've honestly never seen or heard anything quite as explicit in 40 odd years observing the Borg as a JW & ex-JW.

It seems almost every interviewee , from Grunt "Rank & File" publisher level to high ups in the Society has to break down almost into tears about "how loving the GB / FADS are , "how marvelous Jehovah's organisation has been to me" or "how obviously Jehovah's spirit is operative". And always produced with an accompanying over the top emotional music in the background , like some novice Youtube video creator who has just discovered how to dub a background track.

There seems to be a desperate lack of corporate self awareness , accountability or objectivity. It reminds me of the MLM / pyramid conference and promotional video presentations you can see online.

Its very , very manipulative - custom-designed to condition people. And its getting worse.

24

Harry, Meghan the Royal Apostates

by Slidin Fast in

jw
friends

i just watched the oprah interview.

i know that many view them with little interest as just entitled wastes of space and i get that.. however, the description of how they were "trapped" and silenced and forced into perpetuating the system with little or no personal freedom rang bells for me.

they are effectively shunned, estranged and disparaged by their family and cut off from support.

dozy

I'm from the UK and not really a royalist per se , but I found it rather nauseating. As soon as the interview began , with Oprah talking about Meghan discussing "her truths" , it was clear that any degree of objectivity or any challenging , even mildly , some of her statements were not on the menu. Some of the things she said ( for example , despite what she implied - there never was any possibility that Archie was going to be a Prince ) were definite lies - I think she was relying on the US audience to take things first hand without really knowing the facts.

Another guy lost / resigned his job as well here , as well as Piers Morgan. Its interesting to watch his interview that led to a "revenge of the wokes" type backlash that cost him his job. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9348267/Society-Editors-chief-resigns-criticism-defending-UK-press-against-racism-claims.html

It has exposed a bit gulf in attitudes in the UK which somewhat mirrors that in the USA and peoples' attitudes largely depends on their age.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/03/09/snap-poll-post-interview-harry-meghan

55

Ban on Independent Meetings

by lssjr in

source - march 2021 announcements - - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5085868283920384/2021-march-147-english-german-announcements-reminders.

this is a sobering reminder of what happened some 40 years ago when raymond franz and others were literally kicked out from the jehovah's witnesses for having pre-arranged private spiritual discussions.lesson: paragraph 7 is another example of the i and t in dr. steven hassan's bite model of the 21st century cult - information and thought control at its best!!!!

"my gosh, there must be a lot of independent meetings these days.

dozy

When I was growing up it was common, and thought well of, for some to gather together to talk about scriptural things they were interested in. My dad often cited such a group meeting for bringing him in. I think they went through parts of one of the old prophecy books from the '60's, honestly I forget the name of it, but he found it fascinating, I guess.
I've not heard of people doing that for a long time.

I remember that going on as well. But nowadays - the average joe publisher is so dumbed down , he would think a Caleb & Sophia cartoon to be "deep spiritual food"!

55

Ban on Independent Meetings

by lssjr in

source - march 2021 announcements - - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5085868283920384/2021-march-147-english-german-announcements-reminders.

this is a sobering reminder of what happened some 40 years ago when raymond franz and others were literally kicked out from the jehovah's witnesses for having pre-arranged private spiritual discussions.lesson: paragraph 7 is another example of the i and t in dr. steven hassan's bite model of the 21st century cult - information and thought control at its best!!!!

"my gosh, there must be a lot of independent meetings these days.

dozy

The Question Box ( in 2007 ) was the final straw for me as well. I virtually stomped out of the meeting and was out by the end of the year.

The Society has always clamped down on this sort of thing , especially since the late 70's purge. The Covid / Zoom thing is just another angle to it really that they are keen to suppress.

Back in the late 1990's , one of the elders in our congregation started a meeting in his home once a week ( he had a large open plan conservatory plus dining area ) on a Monday evening to group prep study the weeks Watchtower ( at the same time - puke alert - that the "Bethel family" had their weekly Watchtower prep study as well ) and he would invite some of the elderly ones , single middle aged sisters etc - the usual neglected members of the congregation there. Some would bring buffet stuff like sausage rolls and cakes and they all had tea & coffee etc , so it was as much a social gathering as anything else , albeit with a "spiritual" basis.

It carried on for a few months - absolutely nothing "apostate" about it and it was really appreciated by those who attended ( I think latterly it grew to about 20 or so ) but one of the more uber self righteous elders complained to the CO and he immediately put a stop to it at his visit. This all really shook the elder up and he resigned his position later ( though as far as I know , he is still a JW. )

9

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES: THE EFFECTS OF MILLENARIANISM ON THE MAINTENANCE OF A RELIGIOUS SECT.

by carod2000 in

dear,.

i am doing research on the history of jeovah's witnesses and would like to know if any of you have this research work to share: .

jehovah's witnesses: the effects of millenarianism on the maintenance of a religious sect.

dozy

Check out this thread here https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/108487/rare-books (unfortunately the (brilliant) poster called Leolaia who had a copy no longer posts). You could however try messaging the original poster to see if he was successful in obtaining a copy.

Unless you can get it for free , save your $41 ( unless you can get somebody else to pay the bill! ). I have read a few of these University dissertations and generally they have been pretty disappointing , often with many errors and inaccuracies ( even those supposedly at PHD level ). It is very difficult to objectively and accurately conduct research into the Watchtower Society or JW members , especially for an "outsider" , even on the basis of an academic project , as active JWs don't generally respond and the Society refuses to co-operate in any research ( they probably wouldn't really appreciate being called a "sect" , for a start)!

This particular project dates back to 1980 , so it is somewhat dated now as well , as it pre-dates the purge of the early 80's and the major doctrinal changes of the mid 90's referencing the "generation" that time-shifted JWs expectations for the Millenium.

9

A 'typical JW' story

by joey jojo in

i am friends with an elderly 'worldly' woman, who was unaware i am an ex-jw.

she employs a jw husband and wife pioneer couple for odd jobs around her house- mowing, cleaning etc.

the couple has been working for her and her recently deceased husband for years.. just before the 2019 international convention, despite the fact that the husband was fighting his last battle with illness, the couple kept asking him to attend the convention with them.

dozy

The CO stated that it was alright to take and even read the magazine if it meant getting Watchtower literature in the householder's hands.

That isn't official Society policy. Sounds like the CO is going off on his own views there...

64

Havent gone to the kingdom hall in ten years but may have to go back...

by Joliette in

made a big mistake of talking about being raised as a jehovah's witness to some old friends and family.

people have told me that i am still a jws even though i've never been baptized.

i'm in school for social services, dealing with student loan debt, and a lot of other debt.

dozy

Hi - I do sincerely sympathise with your situation , but have you really though this one through? I haven't read the thread through so doubtless other posters have made similar comments , but just my 2c.

Initially you will experience short term "love bombing" - in these days when the truth about JWs is just a Google search away , very few people join JWs these days , and a former lapsed JW who returns would receive a lot of attention. Very quickly , after baptism , this would disappear and you would just be treated like any other member of the congregation.

Would you really want to be spending hours every week knocking on doors ( or being judged if you weren't "doing enough"). Or standing beside a literature cart at some crappy railway station? Sitting through two long boring meetings a week - dragging yourself out on a Sunday morning or weekday evening.

As a 30 something female JW - you know that the chances of finding a boyfriend / husband in the Borg are pretty much zero. You would just be regarded as yet another single JW "sister" - pretty much the bottom of the pecking order in the Borg. Cut out of most of the congregation cliques. In the unlikely event you did meet someone - can you imagine dating with a chaperone tagging along at all times?

JWs is just a former religious publishing business - now mainly a real estate flipping business. Its like a MLM. People work for free with the promise being the imminent new order - a false promise that has been made since the 1870's. It has certain elements of a religion , but in truth - ultimately , that is all it is.

Whatever the question is - joining a cult can never be an answer.

34

Anyone notice how when some of us older ones were in the cult.......

by mickbobcat in

when i was a kid in the late sixties the type of books we would study was very intense compared to the bull shit pablum that they put out today?

i mean the finished mystery and others now its these stupid books that don't dive deep into the beliefs.

.

dozy

I hadn't seen a Watchtower for a few years and couldn't believe just how simple the study articles are now when I looked online. Just 3 sentences or so per paragraph - incredibly simple questions. So dumbed down it is like kindergarten level.

19

Letter from local Kingdom Hall

by jhine in

today l received a hand written letter from my local kingdom hall .

l say my local as the one nearest me , for those who don't know me l am not nor have ever been a jw .

as this letter was addressed " to the householder " l assume that everyone in the area ( tamworth , staffordshire ) has been sent one .

dozy

Are these letters just sent through Royal Mail and stamped? At 66p a time - that's going to be pretty expensive. 100 letters - £66 ( about $100 ).

Why not say to them that you have respectfully read their letter and ask them to watch a simple video in return - eg the Youtube video of Tony Morris buying the whisky. https://tinyurl.com/y3kmdj5z and ask them for their thoughts.

They won't of course , but at least you tried.