Posts by David2002

14

JWs at my door today

by somebody in

jw
friends

i am home today and tomorrow per doctor's orders and i was shocked that of all days, today two jws knocked at my door for the first time in almost 4 years.

they will be back on saturday morning at 10 o'clock.

to you all here, both non and ex jws, and to any lurking jws, i ask the question... what is the difference between a servant of jehovah and a disciple of christ, if any at all?

Regarding "Which leads me to believe that the the WTS's followers never actually absorb or are not paying attention to what their human leaders teach them. Which is probably why their human leaders tell them to direct others to the organization right from initial contact with outsiders and/or householders because JWs MAY BE ABLE TO LOCATE SCRIPTURES and explain fundemental JW doctrine, but that's about it. And that EVWERYTHING THE JWS HAVE LEARNED HAS BEEN FROM THE ORGANIZATION, not the BIBLE."

I disagree with you. I am continually reading the Bible, having read the NT at least 15 times (from different versions) and believe that the WT Society teaches the truth from the Bible. I know of former pastors, ministers, and even a former "pastoret" (a female pentecostal pastor, aka known as "pastora" in Spanish), all which of have divinity degrees, but most importantly read they Bible several times over, and all came to the conclusion the WT teaches the truth of the Bible. I found it absurd that some claim that we get info just from the WT publications - when multiple times the WT publications strongly encourage us to read the Bible. It just doesn't make sense to me. And how many people Witnesses I know, who were former members of other churchers and avid Bible readers, claim that they knew the Witnesses had the truth from what they read from the their Bibles.

BTW - Just as Jesus as Jehovah's Servant, Christians, as followers and disciples of Jesus, are servants of Jehovah.

8

Just Learning

by Law in

first off to everyone that has replied to my messages thank you it helped me understand more about your religion.

i am a catholic and wanted to learn more about this religion and my friend had told me to come here.

so far i've learned alot more then i have had known before.. if theres any information that you would like to tell me about just reply to this message.

David2002

Law,

This discussion group appears to be more of an Ex-Witness site, with only a few Witnesses. To get both sides I recommend the flwg. sites:

http://www.watchtower.org (JW official site)

http://www.jehovah.to (JW apologetics site)

http://www.geocities.com/yhwhbible/main.htm (JW apologetics site)

David

77

What I remember from 1975

by Big Dog in

since i am sort of late to the party this has probably been beaten to death and if it has just kick this thread to the curb.

i was 11 years old in 1975 and i remember being scared silly the whole year.

i mean there was so much hype about it and the tension in the air was so thick it was unreal.

David2002

Big Dog,

My mother began studying in 1974, with the Truth book. She was taught that while the end was near, no one knows the day or the hour. She and most of family later became Witnesses in the 1980's. One person that studied with me told me that her mother came to the conclusion that the end was coming in 1975. However, she told her mother not to jump to conclusions. Her daughter did not believe that 1975 was going to be the end, nor did she see anything in the WT publications stating the end was coming in 1975. Can you cite me a WT article that clearly states that the end will come in 1975??? Not those half quotes, or misquotes which appear all over the Internet. What I want is a WT publication article that clearly states that the end WILL come in 1975. Can you help me find such an article???

27

Will the average age of Witnesses go up with time?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

my parents go to a catholic church, and they say that the average age is in the 60's.. at the kh, the average age is about 30, if you calculate the age of the children too.. theoretically, the average age of witnesses should go up with time .

if less and less people become witnesses, the average age should go up, just like traditional religions....no?.

David2002

What 1975 failure??? Can you show me a WT publication that specificately stated that the end of the world will come in 1975??? No half quotes, no headlines that say nothing conclusive. Just a WT article that states that in 1975 the world will end. I haven't found one.

33

college education=spiritual weakness?

by twvsnt in

hi i'm twvsnt and i've been a witness for 3 years now.

im glad this site exists.

i've been meaning to speak to fellow witnesses who are more open-minded.

David2002

TWVSNT,

I came into the Truth in the late 1980's. And every summer there was a party for graduates done by the local congregations. It included graduates from Jr. High School, High School -- and college. I myself attended college and there were some in the congregation who encouraged me to continue my studies. I only recalled one brother, a bethelite, who appeared judgmental, asking if I am going to college to make money. ( I said I was mainly going to get a good education, and secondly to support myself and potential future family.) Through the years I always knew young Witnesses that attended college. Even in a district assembly, they had a young women talk about how she manages her university study with her pioneering. Sure there were some admonitions about college education - there has been rare cases in which some have been influenced to believe in evolution, and even becoming atheits. So they would warn about that. They strongly recommended that if one decided to go to college that it would be best that they stay home with their parents, if at all possible, when pursuing their studies. I really finded surprising that some Internet sites say that the WT condemned college. I even know of a few colllege professor and instructors that are Jehovah's Witnesess! Frederick Franz, in his biography, talked very fondly of his professor from the Univesity of Cincinnati, where he studied for 2 years. So I just don't understand all this talk about Witness being anti-college. In fact, among the first surgeons who practice non-blood surgery procedures are Jehovah's Witnesses. They must have gone to medical school!!!! (Another Bethelite I knew told me 2 of his cousins, who are JW's, had studied in a CA medical school procedures on non-blood surgery).

27

Will the average age of Witnesses go up with time?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

my parents go to a catholic church, and they say that the average age is in the 60's.. at the kh, the average age is about 30, if you calculate the age of the children too.. theoretically, the average age of witnesses should go up with time .

if less and less people become witnesses, the average age should go up, just like traditional religions....no?.

David2002

No, the Witnesses are a very diverse group. True, as the WT as mentioned, in most cases those disfellowshipped are the younger between the ages 15-35. However, the rate of tose returning is quite high, over 80%. A recent study by Kephart and Zellner reports that most young people who live the Witnesses return. And new ones coming are usually younger. In fact, meeting attendance in most of the world is basically by the younger generation, which is the group doing the most preaching. In fact, in some European countries, one of the main reaons that there is a lower number of publishers is due to the older brothers, not the younger ones. European congregations have a greater number of older brothers, those aged 75 and above. These are all considered to be faithful brothers and sisters. But the since the WT society counts the brothers that are only actively preaching, the growing number of "inactive" elderly brothers do not appear in the number of active publishers. I put inactive in quotes since many of the elderly brothers attend the KH meetings or have the meeting taped so that can listen to them at home.

49

Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter

by chuckyy in

my wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.

today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.

he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.

David2002

Chukky,

Regarding:"I appreciate your reply, and some of the points that you have raised ,but what of certain fractions THAT WERE AVAILABLE but not considered scriptural at a specific time AND WERE LATER ALLOWED. Lets use the example of Factor viii, a blood clotting fraction of blood that is used extensively for haemophiliacs. This fraction was available for some time before the society allowed its conscientious use..and yet....it can be a life saving fraction.
Also fractions such as interleukins that are used for treating some cancers, make up a tiny fraction of blood and are passed through the mothers breast milk...yet these i beleive cannot be accepted.
The other thing that i wanted to mention was the storage of blood. Why is it that fractions can be accepted, when they have evidently been stored for a time as whole blood ??? If storage isnt an issue here, then what is wrong in storing your own blood before an operation??"

It may have to do with more informaton becoming available on those fractions. It may have been learned, for instance, that albumin is naturally available in non-blood items such as eggs and vegetables, and at the point it may have been decided that accepting that factor can be left up to the individual. I do not know why certains fractions can be stored and they accepted. I thought storing our own blood for future use was a matter of conscience.

I am actually researching this topic. I got a book called "Your Body Your Choice", written by Jehovah's Witness apologists. Unfortunately, it does not include a index page, where I can check topics quickly. I was told that there is also a recent dissertation on Jehovah's Witnesses and blood transfusion, which was also written by a brother. The dissertation supposedely discusses the history of JW's and there objections to transfusions, and may include info on the issues of factors. I am trying to find out the full title to see if I can get a copy of it. Edwin Mellen Press also released a new book on JW's and transfusions, but it is a bit expensive. But I will probably buy it to research the topic.

49

Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter

by chuckyy in

my wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.

today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.

he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.

David2002

Get BusyLiving, Regarding-- "you?re told not to eat a ham and cheese sandwich. But the sandwich also includes mustard. You know not to eat the ham and the cheese, but maybe you can have the mustard.} "LOL. Unfortunetly this illustration is garbage. 'The mustard' that you speak of is in actuality part of the 'blood'. I don't mean to be rude, but what are you thinking? Where in the Bible does it specify what type of blood fraction is a conscience matter to use and what is a disassociating offence?" To be honest, after I posting that, I thought it was kind of funny myself. But it was to late for me to remove it. A little bit too rough. But I did mention in my earlier post, that albumin, which is now permitted, appears in eggs and vegetables. The point I was trying to make is that perhaps by separating albumin from the blood as a whole, it in itself is not blood. If for instance, the new medical technology they can separate Vitamin K from the blood (Vitamin K stops overclottng), does that make the Vitamin K blood? I think that should be left as a matter of conscience.

49

Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter

by chuckyy in

my wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.

today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.

he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.

David2002

CruzanHeart, I sorry to hear about what happened to your father. Usually if one makes one mistake, he or she is just reproved, not disfellowshipped. I do not understand why the elders treated your father like dirt. That was unChristian and not according to what the Bible teaches and against WT admonitions. But remember the Bible does says that there will be some shepherds who will not treat the flock with tenderness. That can even apply to some elders today (Acts 20:28,29,30)

49

Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter

by chuckyy in

my wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.

today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.

he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.

David2002

Diamond Blue: Regarding "Oh please.... Open your eyes...any religion that practices shunning for the reasons they do isnt showing love; throughout life we find friends some better than others...when a friend falls off the straight and narrow the answer isnt to distance yourself from them it is to support them and do your best to get them back on track and if they dont providing it isnt something totally abhorrent then you accept them as different and you respect their position. Disfellowshipping is supposed to be for those who are unrepentant sinners against God....not the WTBTS... God and even so i know of a number of occasions where people have committed immorality (as the dubs call it) and genuinely been repentant....but still been shunned....wheres the love in that...again open your eyes friend." I agree with that disfellowshipping is for the unrepentants ones. If one practices fornication, he sinning against God, not the WTBTS; if one is commiting adultery, one sins against God, not WTBTS, if one teaches false doctrines, he sins against God, not WTBTS, etc. The Bible is clear to me as to what it states in 1 Cor. 5:6-10. If disfellowshipping leads one to repent (which is the point of disfellowshipping - a disciplinary action to lead one to repent), and the bad behavior is stopped, and the person is then saved, don't you think that action is longrun is loving? (Compare Heb. 12:11)