Posts by lovelylil

17

JW Assumptions in their Literature

by XBEHERE in

below is the text for the day notice the highlighted areas:.

text for thursday, april 20, 2006. .

thursday, april 20. here i have two daughters who have never had intercourse with a man.

lovelylil

that verse always disturbed me too. I can't imgine throwing my young daughter, who is a virgin out to be raped and abused by a large angry mob. And of course the WT will defend this because they are a bunch of lewd disgusting men. Why else would they insruct elders when officiating over molestation cases to ask about all the little details from young girst? I know some who were asked if they LIKED the molestation. what the hell kind of question is that? They are sick and twisted, like Lot.

23

Did Katie Holmes yell or cry or moan?

by MsMcDucket in

the most-anticipated coming attraction in hollywood is finally here.

no, not mission: impossible 3 (although that new trailer is pretty rockin').

its the tom cruise - katie holmes baby, a girl named suri.

lovelylil

Tom Cruise should start his own cult!

56

Short Survey for Non-Trinitarians

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

the survey is intended for any ex-jws who remain christian, but continue to be non-trinitarian.

please give a concise, well developed statement of what you believe regarding the holy spirit.

please do not go into lengthy dissertations trying to prove your point.

lovelylil

If you have the Holy Spirit you will cultivate the fruits of it which are listed in Galatians 5. Nowhere is head knowledge listed. Like Amazing says not everything is black and white. We do not have to be in agreement on everything like the Watchtower teaches. We can agree to disagree and give our views on either side but either way, our salvation is not at stake. The only thing we are required to do if we call ourselves Christian is to follow Christ and listen to his teachings. There are some basic doctrines that most Christians agree on. other than that, the bible is open to interpretation. There is a saying - The bible is like a fiddle, you can play many tunes on it. Many people have there own views and thats o.k. Our salvation does not depend on us being drones who act, look and speak alike all the time. If you read the New Testament, you will see that the early Christians sometimes had very heated arguements over issues too. And they certainly did not agree on everything.

Amazing, I do want to read your paper. If you can, please email me a copy to my box. I am open minded to listening to other's views. I by all means cannot say that I have all the truth or the only truth. I have not learned as much as I have since leaving the WT by not listening to others. I am learning new things every day.

For those who think you have to agree on everything, I am sorry but you are mistaken and you will never find fellowship with other Christians if you stick to that view. You only have to be convinced in your own mind. But you cannot force others to agree with you on everything. Lilly

14

only begotten Son?

by UpAndAtom in

if jesus was the only begotten son of god, who then was adam and melchizadek's father?

has this question ever been raised before?

lovelylil

Thanks Kate for those scriptures. Hope you are feeling better. My family is home this week because of school vacation. I've been busy but hope to call you soon. Lilly

14

only begotten Son?

by UpAndAtom in

if jesus was the only begotten son of god, who then was adam and melchizadek's father?

has this question ever been raised before?

lovelylil

I agree with Rex,

A God must beget (or sire) God. Jesus is the only one like Jehovah in that he is Divine and eternal like his father. Or, the only other one of his (Jehovahs) kind. All others were created through Jesus

56

Short Survey for Non-Trinitarians

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

the survey is intended for any ex-jws who remain christian, but continue to be non-trinitarian.

please give a concise, well developed statement of what you believe regarding the holy spirit.

please do not go into lengthy dissertations trying to prove your point.

lovelylil

Hi Jim,

Thanks for clearing that up. It sounded like I was reading it wrong because from your other posts, you did not seem judgemental at all. I agree that not all who claim to have the Holy Spirit have it. And not all groups that claim to be doing Gods will are doing it. It reminds me of Matthew 7:21, here Jesus is telling us that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter his kingdom. Even though they say that they performed powerful works in the Lords name and expelled demons in his name, Jesus calls them workers of lawlessness and says he never knew them. They may think they are accepted and working in Gods name but are really not.

And yes it is obvious by cults that they have no Holy Spirit. If they did they would be cultivating the fruitages of it; Love, Joy, Peace, Long suffering, Kindness, Mildness, hope, faith, etc. So they prove false to it. But I don't believe you have to be associated with any organized religion to recieve the spirit. You only have to be a true believer and follower of Christ. Case in point:

If you read Acts, you will see that Paul, after he converted to Christianity was moved by the spirit to begin a missionary work. He did not meet with ANY other Christians in Jeruselum until more than a decade later. (I believe it said 13 years) If they were the "established church" at that time, why did he not have to immediately join them for the Holy Spirit to work in him? He also did not have to check in with them about what he was doing. Jesus gave him Holy Spirit to tell him what to do. Paul is a great example of being filled with the spirit thru out his life and ministry. He went where the spirit of God directed him and did not affiliate with any group. He even helped small home churches start up and was there if they needed help understanding the basics of Christianity, but he was never a master over their faith. But our modern idea of a church is much different than in the bible. The church or ecclesia is the people, not the building. All christians are joined together by the Holy Spirit. (we are the living church, Christs body) I am not speaking about those claiming to have the Spirit, I mean those who prove true to having it. Our job as Christian ministers or witnesses is to bring people to Christ and the truth of his word and thats it. If they are true believers, the Holy Spirit will take over from there. They will continue to learn and grow as a Christian and spread the word. I am not against getting together for prayer, study and fellowship. I did that yesterday having to drive almost 2 hours away to find like minded believers. (2 hrs. each way). I am just against any religion saying only they have the truth or that you have to accept their doctrines to be accepted by Christ or God. That is what promoting a sect truly is. There is no biblical evidence of anyone being called Catholic, Protestant or Jehovahs Witness, nor any other name rather than simply Christians. (I am not condeming any that want to be affilliated with such a group, just saying it is unnecessary.)

8

HELP! For those being shunned, please share your experience

by Victorian sky in

i'm writing a book (i know, it sounds so cliche) but i really am about the shunning experiences of people in religions and how this affected them and their family relationships.

i need your stories even if you were never a jw.

if you would prefer to pm me, i would appreciate it.

lovelylil

V Sky,

You are correct that we are not told the truth about the shunning policy when we study. I only remembered being told you can be disfellowshipped for immorality. I did not get involved in immorality nor did my husband. We only wanted to not be JWs any longer. But they do not let you get out with any kind of dignity. You loose everything. I could not undertand this because they treat so-called worldy people with respect. So if someone decides to be a worldly person again and not a Witness, why do they not get any respect? We were not renouncing our belief in God or Jesus or the bible in any way. We just did not want to be a part of the organized religion known as the Watchtower. Your book is going to share the truth about what happens when you leave and you will help thousands of people BEFORE they get involved with the Witnesses and God will bless you for that. Lilly

56

Short Survey for Non-Trinitarians

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

the survey is intended for any ex-jws who remain christian, but continue to be non-trinitarian.

please give a concise, well developed statement of what you believe regarding the holy spirit.

please do not go into lengthy dissertations trying to prove your point.

lovelylil

Star Moore,

I dont know about Amazing. But I agree with you. If you look at pasts posts, I listed plenty of scriptures that says the spirit is actually God's Spirit. I think the texts you brought out were really good. The Spirit can teach well because it goes right to your heart and mind and helps you get better understanding. A lot of what Jesus taught the Apostles remembered AFTER he sent the spirit. So it can help you see how Jesus teachings are relevevent and it brought back what he said to them. But like you said, and that is my point also, it is not a third person of a trinity. We believers can possess it and will show the proper fruit (or qualties) if we do have it. (Galatians 5) It is God's Spirit of truth poured out to believers. Thanks for that post.

56

Short Survey for Non-Trinitarians

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

the survey is intended for any ex-jws who remain christian, but continue to be non-trinitarian.

please give a concise, well developed statement of what you believe regarding the holy spirit.

please do not go into lengthy dissertations trying to prove your point.

lovelylil

Dear anewme,

I understand how you feel. I felt the same way at one time. I don't think any of the old bible writers felt they were total authorities on God. They even recognized that others were God fearing. I think of JOB in the bible. He had nothing at all to do with the Isrealites who at the time were God's Holy Nation, yet Jehovah God said he had faith in God more than anyone else on the earth. There is no religion organization right now to bring us closer to God. Jesus can because he spoke the truth about God and his purposes. One day, this will be witnessed thru-out the whole earth. Many believe if they belong to a particular group they will fair better than everyone else. This simply is not true. If there is anything Christ did teach us is that true worship IS WITHIN believers. If you believe in God and live your life in a way that expresses that believe (like you said being happy, also doing good to others, etc) you are pleasing God. So you are doing the correct thing even though you dont realize it. This whole topic was about the Holy Spirit and the differences of belief. I still have a different belief than trinitarians. But I think thats o.k. I dont think it depends on our faith in God or whether or not he accepts us at all. It was only a mental exercise. Christ made us to be FREE. That is what you are, as I am too. I can attend any church I want, OR not attend and I am free to express love of God in my own way. The thing I take offense at is when people try to say you have to belong to a religion, Catholic, Protestant, Jehovahs Witness, etc. I have belonged to them all. In belonging you must accept THEIR interpretation of the bible. That is too narrow minded. Only after leaving all these did I finally understand Jesus saying "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". When the day comes that Christ returns and removes all these religious institutions, God promises to write his laws and commands in all our hearts and we ALL shall worship in spririt and truth, the large and the small, slave and feeman, man and women". Until that day, you have to decide what you want to do. But never give up the freedom you have in your heart. Lilly

56

Short Survey for Non-Trinitarians

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

the survey is intended for any ex-jws who remain christian, but continue to be non-trinitarian.

please give a concise, well developed statement of what you believe regarding the holy spirit.

please do not go into lengthy dissertations trying to prove your point.

lovelylil

Hi Amazing,

Your are correct the Holy Spirit was always active. Jesus had it poured out on the Christians though after he went to heaven. But of course Christ had to have Holy Spirit upon him when he was on earth because this is what he used to heal people, raise the dead, etc. Yes the Holy Spirit moves people in the church and helps them grow. But I Totally disagree with you about who Holy Spirit works upon. How can you say only certain churches have Holy Spirit? Remember Christ did away with the old ways, The church today is the living body of Christ. Holy Spirit bonds people together. Christians that is, no matter what denomination they belong to. Even if they do not belong to a denomination. Many of the established churches try to say they are the true church. First of all, it is up to Christ to decide the matter.The place of worship is totally irrelevent according to Christ himself:

In the book of John chapter 4 starting in verse 7, Jesus encounters a Samaritan women at a well. In speaking to her, they begin a talk about worship. She tells Jesus that her people worship on that mountain but the Jews say they must worship in Jerusalem. Jesus answers her by saying (verse 21) "Believe me woman, a time is coming when you will worship the father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem" In verse 23, the Lord says "The time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks". God is Spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and truth.

It is obvious that by this verse the PLACE of worship is not relevent. Therfore you cannot say only certain churches are approved. It is the people who receive Holy Spirit, the worshipers themselves. This is obvious by many texts but Romans 8 is a good chapter to explain about how individuals can know they have the spirit.

Christ started Christianity, not a certain religious organization. Although they all claim to be the true one. And they try to manipulate the scriptures to prove it. Man is the one who started that. Christ did away with the old ways. That is why also that the Pharisees wanted Jesus dead. they knew his teachings will take away all their power over the masses. You dont need an organization any more, only a relationship WITH God, THRU Christ, and you are bound to them by HOLY SPIRIT.

Amazing, Just because Holy Spirit was active in Genesis does not mean it is a seperate person. It was God the bible says who created everything thru Christ. Therefore they USED Holy Spirit in this capacity. Just like they use it to influence the believer. By your line of thinking, would you say that the Holy Spirit alone was the creator? The Spirit is always under God or Jesus command. I won't go into how it is not a seperate person any more because I feel we will just be going around in circles. While I belive in the divinity of Christ, I have a different view of the Holy Spirit. By the way for any not sure Jesus was Divine like Jehovah, please read the whole book of John. The Apostle John gave ample texts to prove this.

Please dont send me anything about the churches you feel are the ones with Holy Spirit only, I belonged to some of them in the past and already proved in my mind that what they teach about them ONLY being approved is false. Take the Catholic one for instance. I looked up the so called proof that their church was built on Peter and believe this to be a misunderstanding of scripture. And I really dont care what the early Church Fathers said because of the fact that they are humans. I go by the word of Christ only. will respect your opinion though as to what church you belong to and hope you respect mine, not to join an official church. It simply is not needed. And there is no reason for me to address the matter because I don't feel it matters what church you support either as long as you have a personal relationship with Christ. If anyone has any more questions about this issue feel free to email me if you think I may be able to help. I can most likely point out a couple of texts to help but ultimately I am not here to convince anyone. You have to make up your own mind - [email protected] God bless, Lilly