I remember when my mom regularly searched my room while I was at school when I still lived at home. She would flip out at the most random things and even threatened to kick me out of the house a couple of times. At one point she was also reading my email and to this day I'm still paranoid about keeping track of web browser cookies because of that.
apfergus
JoinedPosts by apfergus
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I caught my JW parents digging in my trash + an intervention
by LeftBehind inoh where to start.
i will start with catching my parents digging in my trash.
my neighbor called me on the phone and thought i would like to know that 2 people were digging in my trash and asked if she should call the police.
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Your first "worldly" heroes?
by apfergus inone of the first things that i realized after i left the organization was that i could actually have human heroes who weren't bible characters.
now this will give you an idea of how much of a nerd i am, but the first person i began to idolize as a 17-18 year old teenager was richard p. feynman, the mid 20th century theoretical physicist.
of course, now i'm on my way to becoming a physicist myself, although i'm going into the experimental side instead of theory.
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apfergus
One of the first things that I realized after I left the organization was that I could actually have human heroes who weren't Bible characters. Now this will give you an idea of how much of a nerd I am, but the first person I began to idolize as a 17-18 year old teenager was Richard P. Feynman, the mid 20th century theoretical physicist. Of course, now I'm on my way to becoming a physicist myself, although I'm going into the experimental side instead of theory.
My second "worldly" human hero was R. Buckminster Fuller, American inventor, architect, and design scientist. I now own a small collection of rare and out of print books of his. He helped turn me on to the idea of doing "more with less" and the idea of long term human survival through continuously improving our way of living through human intuition and ingenuity--none of this just waiting around for God's Kingdom anymore. One of his early books was Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth, which I believe is actually freely available on the internet if you look for it.
So does anyone else have any stories about their first "worldly" human heroes? Why do you admire them and what did they do/say/write that helped you move beyond your life as JW? Just a fun question, I thought. -
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Do you have a motto in life?
by lovelylil indoes anyone out there have any wise words for us to live by?
a favorite motto?
please share your wisdom if you don't mind.
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apfergus
There's a motto associated with my family name which I actually rather like: "Dulcius ex asperis" - literally meaning "Sweeter after difficulties".
One of my personal favorite words of wisdom is actually from one of my heroes, R. Buckminster Fuller: "The Things to do are: the things that need doing, that you see need to be done, and that no one else seems to see need to be done." -
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Is there a 3rd option to explain the origin of life?
by nicolaou inthe creation / evolution debate has raged for 150 years with almost everyone coming down on one side or another (although creation has never offered an explanation for the origin of life).
my question is; 'is there another way of explaining the existence of life in the universe'?.
it's tangential and difficult to imagine but can we drag our perceptions away from the well established religious and evolutionary grooves to arrive at something .
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apfergus
I don't think the situation is quite that simple. The situation is something of a false dichotomy. There are actually many different possibilities on both sides. There are, as you said, "alternative" Gods to the Christian monotheistic deity. On the other hand, there are many different scientific theories to describe the origin of life. The scientific theories which are still relevent today are those which are possible given what we know about how the world works, but which of these (if any) is the best theory has yet to be determined.
So my point is really that we don't need an alternative. There are already so many different ideas which have yet to be tested or confirmed in any conclusive manner, that there is plenty of room for discussion and experimentation on these alone that it doesn't seem necessary to speculate about esoteric "third" possibilities. -
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I'm not angry anymore...
by TerriO inmy name is terri, and i live in the south of england.
i used to be a regular pioneer in the jw's, i stopped going to the meetings about 5 years ago.
and my life has just got better and better.
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apfergus
Another good book that I don't think I've heard anyone here mention before is Apocalypse Delayed by James Penton. It's supposed to be a scholarly history of the JWs and I found it pretty interesting. It tells a little bit of a different story than what I remember from that one big green two-volume Watchtower publication the name of which I can't remember.
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the Bible must be supplemented by something else
by drew sagan inthere is no book better to deal with than the holy bible.
it is symbolically called the sword of the spirit; and certainly it is better to manufacture and distribute the sword of the spirit than to engage in the arms race and in making the munitions of carnal warfare, which only result in injuring, maiming and killing.
but the bible must be supplemented by something else.
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apfergus
I think they were on the right track there, at least. Only instead of the Bible requiring support in the form of misleading and fallacious interpretations, it should require the reader to apply reason and good sense to their interpretation. That's one of the reasons I found the philosophy and commentaries of Moses Maimonides very interesting after I left the JWs--he actively encourages people to be critical of their beliefs and the texts from which they come.
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apfergus
I think kid-A and anewme hit the nail right on the head. Sin is a human-defined social construct used to persuade people to follow a certain code of conduct. Rather than worrying about moral absolutes passed down from God, it seems to me to be much more practical to chose one's course of action by selecting the one which will result in the best outcome for everyone (even if it means one does not come out ahead).
To use some of the examples MsMcD cited, gay marriage can't be shown to do any harm to anyone (at least not in any way that holds up under reason)--why should it be sinful or immoral? Other things can be conditional, such as having sex while not married. Why should this be sinful or immoral if both partners are consenting adults? -
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apfergus
I think it was Bertrand Russell who said that sin is "that which offends the magistrate."
But in all seriousness, I see no evidence for the existence of any kind of moral absolute. The right course of action is not determined by some list of "wrong" and "right" possibilities. Each situation must be analyzed and the best solution to any dilema should follow from that. It's not easy or cut-and-dried like just being able to check off activities from a list, but I've never found the easiest method to be the best. -
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How long did it take you to get over it?
by AK - Jeff inone of the posters here - before i knew she was a poster here - in fact before i knew of this site at all, sent me an email early on in my exit.
she likened the whole leaving thing with grieving over a dead loved one - said it took most about two years to work thru all the phases of that loss - denial, anger, etc.. i think she had it about right - that's about how long it took me.
but without jwd it would have been longer.
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apfergus
I'm not sure it's something I'll ever get over completely. It took a while for me to look for fast, easy answers like the JWs had to offer, but eventually I realized that there were no fast or easy answers and that I was just going to have to figure out life on my own. So then it took me at least a few years to do all that figuring out that I should have done instead of subscribing to whatever the Watchtower told me when I was growing up. Even though I've developed my own outlook on life, from time to time I still find that there's deprograming left to be done. Those times make a lot of the pain come rushing back.
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JW,s Best Dressed People !!
by moomanchu ini thought of all the money i saved on not buying all the meeting clothes for my family, and it got me wondering about the reason why jw,s need to dress up for everything they do.
i think it must have all started because russell had that clothing store and this was a good way for him to have a cornered market.
comments $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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apfergus
I bought a nicer suit for my high school's speech and debate team than I did for going to the meetings. Everyone at the KH was usually dressed fairly well. Most people didn't dress as formally for the bookstudies, though; it was just khakhis and a sweater for me, usually.
I think a connection between Russel's clothing store and the witnesses love of dressing nice would be tenuous at best. I find it much more likely to be because they want to show "The World" that they are better or holier or whatever in the presence of god, just so people will have a little bit of respect for them because they can tie a double windsor or something.