apfergus

Joined

• started 3 topics
• posted 102 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by apfergus

• 
  39

  A Case FOR Evolution?

  by pmouse in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  and the official wts response?

  new light, silence, imperfect man or imperfect bird?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, but if you're interested in a case supporting evolution--and there is a very strong one--I'd check out www.talkorigins.org which has quite a bit of information about common misconceptions and why many religious arguments against evolution are bunk.
• 
  14

  Do you have to be "gullible" in order to be a good JW?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in french we use the word "naif", which means to believe anything that's said without proof of it being true.

  i think that gullible is the english translation.. i was very gullible in my early jw years.

  i guess it's not faith that one needs to be a good jw, but gullibility...

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  For me it all started out as an attempt to please my mother, who was studying with the JWs. I was young at the time, so gullibility is a given. I've always been a science nerd, even when I was really young, so I always wound up being called on at meetings to explain things like why evolution is wrong or why the big-bang couldn't possibly have been true. At one point, my mother had even managed to convince me to throw away any career I could have in the sciences and go to a local college and do something where I wouldn't have to learn about evolution and things. Eventually, I just had to give up; I couldn't take it any more. I couldn't just accept that the big-bang was incorrect without actually studying cosmology and I walked away. So I think part of being a good JW is being pretty gullible, but even with my natural desire to question things and look for answers it took me years before I could leave. So gullability is definitely not the be all end all. There's a lot of pressure that can keep you in the JWs even after your solid supports have been kicked out from under you.
• 
  14

  The ridiculers were "right ".............all along

  by vitty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how do you feel, now, knowing that the ridiculers, objectionist or non-jw family and workmates were right.. i feel a tad embarrist, i spent a long time, 20 years, trying convince, or prove ppl that i had the "truth" .

  my only consolation was that i would be proved right and that they would end up looking foolish.

  pride is a terrible thing.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  I've never been bothered by being wrong. Once someone shows me how I was wrong, I change what I think and am no longer wrong. It works out really well. But my Non-JW father was very supportive of my departure, as were all of my non-JW friends. In fact, most of them were more supportive of me then than the elders were. Go figure.
• 
  16

  Satan Helps Dubs Look Bad

  by Clam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we've recently started to get visits from varying pairs of dubs.

  i've been pretty harsh with some in the past and told them to mark me down at the hall as a "do not return", but this has not worked.

  a couple of new sisters called on me yesterday morning, so i carefully steered them towards the blood issue.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  Wow. Just... wow. "We actually make sense, Satan just manipulates your mind so it looks like we don't make any sense!" I'm reminded of the words of Galileo Galilei, "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
• 
  7

  The Subect of Religious Origins.

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the subject of religious origins is a fascinating one, as the great multitude of books upon it tend to show.

  the great difficulty today in dealing with the subject, lies in the very mass of the material to handle and that, not only on account of the labor involved in sorting through the material,but, because the abundance itself of facts open up temptation to rush in hastily with what seems a plausible theory.

  the more facts, statistics, and so forth, that there are available in any investigation, the easier it is to pick out a considerable number which will fit a given theory.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  I'm going to have to ask for some clarification on one point:
  It should also be noted that research alone does not prove anything, he said she said, ie. the existence of the supernatural. However, real life experience does and only the person experiencing the real life experience knows this.
  It seems to me like you're implying that a "spiritual" or "religious" experience can be used to support a certain position as well as empirical evidence. This is simply not so. Such an experience can definitely move an individual to believe a certain way, but it in no way lends any support to that belief other than the completely subjective "I like it" or "it makes me feel good". There are always other more parsimonious explanations for any indescribable personal experience than God or the suprnatural.
  Having said that, I do beleive you are correct when you say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All I'm doing is expressing mine--in no way do I mean to speak ill of anyone who professes any kind of spirituality.
• 
  37

  The Increasing Degradation of Women in the Watchtower Society.

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from towerwatcher:the increasing degradation of women in the watchtower society.

  the lifestyle of a woman as one of jehovah's witnesses is certainly not an easy job.

  it is a well known fact that most of the work that takes place within the watchtower society contributing to its success, is due to the backbone of the watchtower which can be described as the women in the congregation.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  I remember at least one field service meeting when I was little where an elder didn't show up to lead it. There was so much confusion. But all those sisters just had no idea what to do without direction from an elder--it's really quite sad.
• 
  23

  When you left the JWs did you keep their publications?

  by White Waves in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i threw everything away except the bible (which i now know is crap), the songbook and reasoning from the scriptures ( to use against them... primarily the conversation stopper part).

  so many posters seem be able to access jw info easily and quote it... i wonder if i should have kept everything.

  at the time, it was a way to start over and commit to never going back.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  I'm pretty sure my mother still thinks I'm a "smart boy" and that one day I'll come back to "the truth". I'm also pretty sure this is the only reason she and the rest of the people from the old congregation I still see from time to time will even talk to me. So in order to hopefully keep some kind of relationship with my mother I just left all my copies of the literature wherever they were sitting last time I put them down. I'm pretty sure it's all in a box in the attic now, actually, so it's not like I took it with me when I moved out or anything, though.
• 
  13

  Gay & Lesbian JW where are you?

  by LEC in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i came out of the closet when i was 18 yrs to my parents & the elders expelled me out ever since that my life has changed completely!!!

  i was born under a jw household and i finally celebrated my first birthday when i was 21 yrs and it felt weird.

  i was just wondering how to cope w/ this feelings, sometimes i want to go back but i can't ignore my feelings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  My flight from the JWs had nothing to do with my sexuality, but my sexuality definately ruled out any possibility of me going back. I still haven't come out to my parents because I don't want to ruin what little of a relationship I have left with my mother. But I definitely couldn't subject myself to any environment where I would have to repress something that seems to me to be so natural.
  Even though I may not be in the exact same boat as you are, I can promise you that going back to the organization is something harmful for you in the long term. Just keep asking questions, but don't be afraid of the answers you might find.
• 
  41

  Question about the Anointed

  by Zico in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have just joined this site after having been visiting as a guest for a few months.

  i am searching for answers so please be patient with me.

  a friend of mine in the congregation has directed me to this site as he has been having doubts about the organization, though he said he never posts on it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  First of all, hello and welcome. I hope you find the answers you're looking for. Just be prepared for answers that might surprise you.
  I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you implying that people who practice religions other than the Jehovah's Witnesses brand of Christianity don't really believe it "beyond all doubt"? If that's not what you meant to imply, why would the Jehovah's Witnesses' faith be better placed if people of other religion's have just as much confidence in theirs (which I can assure you, many do).
• 
  21

  Your first "worldly" heroes?

  by apfergus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the first things that i realized after i left the organization was that i could actually have human heroes who weren't bible characters.

  now this will give you an idea of how much of a nerd i am, but the first person i began to idolize as a 17-18 year old teenager was richard p. feynman, the mid 20th century theoretical physicist.

  of course, now i'm on my way to becoming a physicist myself, although i'm going into the experimental side instead of theory.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  apfergus

  I've looked up to people I know personally, my own unbelieving father included. He was raised Southern Baptist and was told repeatedly growing up that he was just going to burn in Hell, so I've always felt a little bit of a connection there.
  I can also hear you on the sci-fi. I was way into Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, and the like.