under_believer

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Posts by under_believer

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  18

  High School Graduation

  by Jim_TX in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  okay - since larry isn't gonna ask it... i will.. did you attend your high school graduation?

  cap & gown stuff - the whole nine yards?.

  it wasn't even a consideration, either.. heck... i wasn't allowed to go to senior 'honors' night - where i was elected to receive some sort of recognition.

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  under_believer

  Graduations were fine in my area / time period. Did the whole nine yards.
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  17

  Society gets New Light™ on UN?

  by under_believer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been doing some research recently on the society's most recent teachings and statements about the united nations.

  as we all know, the society has made some very extreme, very negative statements about the united nations in the past, even as recently as 1999: *** dp chap.

  15 p. 269 par.

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  under_believer

  What this illustrates for me, if indeed I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, is how the Society will change a principal doctrine "on the sly." Sometimes New Light™ is overt, such as in the case of the "any day now" understanding of the Generation teaching, but in other cases, like this UN case, it's under the table. I doubt most Witnesses realize that the Society has greatly weakened or abandoned the teaching that the scarlet-colored wild beast represents the United Nations.
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  155

  I found this and am in total agreement. Feel free to answer the Questions.

  by jw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  regardless of how you feel about jehovah's organization--the true religion, one thing for sure, you will not escape the almighty jehovah's judgement right along with satan the devil and his destructive organization.

  how will you save yourself and those who follow you...?

  it's ashame that your energies could not be put to a more positive use.

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  under_believer

  Peace among fellow believers is more important than proving who is right and who is wrong. Keeping this principle in mind makes it easier to apologize for a wrong that someone thinks we have committed against him or her.

  Whoah! So you're saying that unity is more important than correctness in a religion?
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  36

  "No fear" t shirts, forbidden???

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the 1990's there were a lot of things that had the saying "no fear" on it and one of the local elders figured out that this meant we live life and do things without fear.

  so that basically we could try things and take chances, without the normal fear we associate with things in life.

  well in a special needs talk they decided that "no fear" t shirts should not be worn by good witnesses and they asked that we not wear them to witness gatherings, or even in life.

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  under_believer

  Blondie, I'll get you an excerpt, but it'll have to wait until I get home tonight.
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  17

  Society gets New Light™ on UN?

  by under_believer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been doing some research recently on the society's most recent teachings and statements about the united nations.

  as we all know, the society has made some very extreme, very negative statements about the united nations in the past, even as recently as 1999: *** dp chap.

  15 p. 269 par.

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  under_believer

  
  I have been doing some research recently on the Society's most recent teachings and statements about the United Nations. As we all know, the Society has made some very extreme, very negative statements about the United Nations in the past, even as recently as 1999:

  *** dp chap. 15 p. 269 par. 24 The Rival Kings Enter the 20th Century ***
  

  24 What “disgusting thing” has been “put in place” in modern times? Apparently, it is a “disgusting” counterfeit of God’s Kingdom. This was the League of Nations, the scarlet-colored wild beast that went into the abyss, or ceased to exist as a world-peace organization, when World War II erupted. (Revelation 17:8) “The wild beast,” however, was “to ascend out of the abyss.” This it did when the United Nations, with 50 member nations including the former Soviet Union, was established on October 24, 1945. Thus “the disgusting thing” foretold by the angel—the United Nations—was put in place.

  It's also interesting to read what the Society's teaching on the UN's role in the end-time prophecies was in the following lurid description:

  *** w63 11/15 p. 701 par. 60 Execution of Divine Judgment upon False Religion ***
  

  60 God Almighty will break up that selfish unity between the harlot and the ten-horned wild beast. He will turn their selfish love to contemptuous hatred and will present reasons to the beast and ten horns to hate the harlot on top of them and to vent their hatred furiously upon her. They will drive her from a religious paradise into devastation. They will strip off her purple and scarlet garments, her adornments of gold and precious stones and pearls, and knock that golden cup full of disgusting things out of her hand. She will be exposed nude as a religious fraud. No longer will her flesh hold an attraction for petting and immoral union, but the “wild beast” and its ten horns will feed in a beastly way upon her fleshy parts. Her skeleton they will reduce to mere lime by burning it with fire. Thus the world empire of Babylonish religion will be reduced to ashes, to be trampled underfoot by the surviving worshipers of the true God, Jehovah, the faithful followers of his reigning Son Jesus Christ.—Mal. 4:3.

  We are also all aware of the Society's "spiritual prostitution" in allying itself with the UN as an NGO, and following UN requirements of publishing UN press releases as Watchtower and Awake! articles. Perhaps this is why, even in the last seven years, this rhetoric has softened and changed significantly in tone. Look, for example, at this quote

  *** w05 9/15 p. 19 par. 13 Walk by Faith, Not by Sight! ***
  

  13 Something similar is about to take place in our day. Elements within the United Nations will be involved in the execution of divine judgment. Just as the Roman armies of the first century were designed to maintain the Pax Romana (Roman Peace), the United Nations of today is intended to be a peacekeeping instrument. Although the Roman armies tried to ensure relative safety throughout the then known world, they became the desolater of Jerusalem. Likewise today, Bible prophecy indicates that militarized powers within the United Nations will see religion as a disturbing element and will act to destroy modern-day Jerusalem—Christendom—as well as the rest of Babylon the Great. (Revelation 17:12-17) Yes, the entire world empire of false religion stands on the brink of destruction.

  Now, this may be inconclusive for some, but to me it was a big shift. In the past, it was clearly stated that the United Nations itself would be responsible for the destruction of world religion. Think Koffi Annan signing the papers for the operation. The above quote is much softer in tone and very ambiguous: "militarized powers within the UN" could refer to almost anything including a single militarized member state like the United States.

  However the most shocking and surprising evidence came from this very recent article:

  *** w05 10/1 p. 24 par. 18 “Keep on the Watch”—The Hour of Judgment Has Arrived! ***
  

  18 At Revelation 14:9, 10, a further aspect of ‘the hour of judgment’ is described. Another angel says: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God.” Why? “The wild beast and its image” are symbols of human rulership, which does not acknowledge Jehovah’s sovereignty. Alert Christians are careful not to allow themselves to be influenced or to be marked, in either attitude or action, as being in servitude to those who refuse to acknowledge the supreme sovereignty of the true God, Jehovah. Christians know that God’s Kingdom has already been set up in heaven, that it will put an end to all human rulerships, and that it will stand forever.—Daniel 2:44.

  It doesn't even mention the United Nations. Going back another year and a half, we have an article published in the 4/1/2004 Watchtower, entitled "Identifying the Wild Beast and Its Mark." This article doesn't mention the UN a single time, either. Here's an excerpt:

  *** w04 4/1 p. 4 Identifying the Wild Beast and Its Mark ***
  

  The Bible book of Daniel sheds much light on the meaning of symbolic beasts. Chapter 7 contains a vivid tableau of “four huge beasts”—a lion, a bear, a leopard, and a fearsome beast with big teeth of iron. (Daniel 7:2-7) Daniel tells us that these beasts represent “kings,” or political kingdoms, that rule in succession over vast empires.—Daniel 7:17, 23.

  Regarding the beast of Revelation 13:1, 2, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible points out that it “combines in itself the joint characteristics of the four beasts of Daniel’s vision . . . Accordingly, this first beast [of Revelation] represents the combined forces of all political rule opposed to God in the world.” This observation is affirmed by Revelation 13:7, which says of the beast: “Authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.”

  Note that Revelation's "wild beast" is defined as representing "the combined forces of all political rule opposed to God in the world." I find both this definition and the source to be highly significant. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible is a "worldly" Bible dictionary produced by members of Babylon The Great, the World Empire of False Religion, and the Society appears to have suspended their old interpretation of the Wild Beast in favor of the one contained in this "worldly" book.

  Am I totally smoking pot here? Am I the only one who noticed this? If I'm right, do you think the R&F Witnesses realize this?
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  36

  "No fear" t shirts, forbidden???

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the 1990's there were a lot of things that had the saying "no fear" on it and one of the local elders figured out that this meant we live life and do things without fear.

  so that basically we could try things and take chances, without the normal fear we associate with things in life.

  well in a special needs talk they decided that "no fear" t shirts should not be worn by good witnesses and they asked that we not wear them to witness gatherings, or even in life.

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  under_believer

  Speaking of proper attire, the newest KM has instructions in it to wear your dress clothes EVEN WHEN TRAVELLING TO AND FROM THE CONVENTION CITY.
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  40

  How do JW know they have the Truth?

  by Noggin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  breif background: i am an ex mormon.

  that church preaches that through powerful feelings sent by god, one can know the truth of the book of mormon.

  highly reliable, right?

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  under_believer

  Leolaia: *clap* excellent post.
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  36

  "No fear" t shirts, forbidden???

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the 1990's there were a lot of things that had the saying "no fear" on it and one of the local elders figured out that this meant we live life and do things without fear.

  so that basically we could try things and take chances, without the normal fear we associate with things in life.

  well in a special needs talk they decided that "no fear" t shirts should not be worn by good witnesses and they asked that we not wear them to witness gatherings, or even in life.

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  under_believer

  Yes. Our congregation had a similar experience: No Fear t-shirts were strongly frowned on because we were supposed to fear God.
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  44

  Did anyone experience that feeling at the end of assemblies, or C/O visits?

  by dido in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i`m new on here so don`t know if this subject has been covered, but i was wondering if anyone else experienced that overwhelming feeling at the end of assemblies, or when the c/o visited and gave his talk, there was a different feeling in the air, and i always thought it was `jehovah`s spirit`.

  now i`m out and have learnt a lot about the borg, and know all their dastardly deeds, i can`t understand what that feeling was.

  it can`t have been his spirit, as i don`t believe now that the borg is the `truth`.

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  under_believer

  I can honestly say that the only feeling I got when assemblies were over was relief that they were over. I resented that last talk most extremely because I could sense its manipulativeness, and I also highly resented the social pressure to clap every time the speaker blatantly cued the audience to clap ("brothers and sisters, do we not appreciate the food from the faithful slave?!?!?!",) which happens about 20 times in that last talk. I mean they aren't honestly a big group of people bursting into applause, it is EXACTLY equivalent to someone holding up an "applause" sign in front of a live studio audience at a sitcom filming.
  As far as the CO goes, his last talk is always encouraging and complimentary. Like the others said, ending on a high note.
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  22

  Finding Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Faith

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  finding jehovahs witnesses faith.

  i have a question for serious participants of this forum: .

  what do you deem the most reliable means for determining the various convictions held by the population of jehovahs witnesses in terms of the range of what individuals within that group consider as core tenets of their faith?.

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  under_believer

  Marvin, I would love to see data or citations backing up the statements you make in the final paragraph. I am fascinated by this subject.