It has been posted before, but I noticed something this time that I didn't before: Does a dog do what it does out of understanding, reason, and desire? Noooo.... the dog knew where he "should" be every meeting time, but not why, and did not have any understanding of what was going on once it got there.
Very accurate anecdote, after all.
under_believer
JoinedPosts by under_believer
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Urban Legend
by Siddhashunyata indon't know if this has been posted somewhere but i just received it in an email : ( for your encouragement.
"thought you'd all enjoy this experience.. > .
> this is an experience from andre' ramseyer, overseer, just back from the.
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under_believer
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"Evil Slave" still believed to be "Russelites"?
by Theocrat inas long as i can remember, the wts taught that the "evil slave" mentioned conversely to the fds by jesus were the "russelites", or group of people that followed russel's teachings, but hated rutherford and hated the fact that he took it upon himself to write the final "studies in the scriptures" volume.
then they refused to follow the direction that the organization was going at that time.
they then started their own tight-knit religious group with the sole intention of immortalizing russel and his teachings, which got them the label of "evil slave".
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For some of you who are searching....Reasons why
by rassillon ini have more and this may not be the best organized but it will certainly give you the idea that the society outwardly encourages you to check things for your self, well at least they did....
*** km 8/87 p. 3 use the index to grow spiritually ***
6 proverbs 2:4, 5 encourages us to keep searching for knowledge of god just as we would search for hid treasure.
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under_believer
Well done. The quote "But all are urged to learn to discern the Bible principles involved in a matter just as the Society would" is personally revolting to me.
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Amazing new resource for research--Google US Government Search
by under_believer ingoogle has just launched a new service they're calling "google u.s. government search," at .
http://www.google.com/ig/usgov.
this is particularly keen because it allows us to easily limit our searches to the .gov tld.
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under_believer
Totally agree, swan. Nobody should suffer religious intolerance. You may say that the Witnesses themselves practice intolerance, with some degree of truth... but giving such intolerance back is lowering ourselves to their level.
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"Evil Slave" still believed to be "Russelites"?
by Theocrat inas long as i can remember, the wts taught that the "evil slave" mentioned conversely to the fds by jesus were the "russelites", or group of people that followed russel's teachings, but hated rutherford and hated the fact that he took it upon himself to write the final "studies in the scriptures" volume.
then they refused to follow the direction that the organization was going at that time.
they then started their own tight-knit religious group with the sole intention of immortalizing russel and his teachings, which got them the label of "evil slave".
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under_believer
My comments on the quote are as follows. First, let's quote the NWT passage involved.
45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU , He will appoint him over all his belongings.
48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.
Ok, that out of the way. Now, from the 2004 Watchtower study:
Yes, the “evil slave” came from the ranks of the faithful slave. How?
What in the Parable of the Slave indicates that the slave discussed is a class of people? And furthermore what supports the interpretation that the "evil slave" comes from the "ranks" of the faithful slave? Even if you believe that this is referring to a "class," in fact only one slave is ever mentioned in the parable, and that one single slave either passes or fails. It doesn't support in any way the notion that the slave could somehow split in two, partly passing and partly failing.
Before 1914, many members of the faithful slave class had high hopes of meeting with the Bridegroom in heaven that year
As pointed out by others, this is because that was the official doctrine of the Bible Students. To believe otherwise would have been to be an apostate.
As a result of this and other developments
Why mention the "other developments" and then not specify what those developments were?
Some of these turned to ‘beating’ their former brothers verbally and consorting with “confirmed drunkards,” religious groups of Christendom.
Where is the proof that the "beating" somehow indicates verbal dissent? And where is the proof that "confirmed drunkards" refers to "religios groups of Christendom"?
He [Jesus] rejected them, and they lost out on their heavenly hope.
How do we know this? Did Jesus tell you that?
They first had to endure a period of weeping and gnashing of teeth in “the darkness outside” the Christian congregation.
Where is the evidence that those who didn't follow Rutherford, or who stopped following Russell, endured a period of "weeping and gnashing of teeth?" How was their post-Bible Student experience consistent with that description?
a few other anointed individuals have shown a similar bad spirit, identifying themselves with the “evil slave.”
The phrase "identifying themselves" sounds like it's something they announced, but in reality, it's a label that the Society applied to them, based on their interpretation. No "anointed" person has ever left the Society and announced "I am part of the evil slave now."
Rather than becoming embittered, however, they were readjusted. (2 Corinthians 13:11)
Where is the scriptural basis supporting "readjustment"? I'm sorry, 2Cor13:11 doesn't cut it, just because a scripture mentions "readjustment" doesn't support the idea that proper worship of God requires constant adjustments in core eschatological understandings.
It's such ballocks. Because the scriptures themselves don't support the interpretations the Witnesses impart, believing these teachings requires--REQUIRES--that you accept that there are additional revelations, additional inspiration, beyond Scripture, and that the Society is the sole owner of those revelations.
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Amazing new resource for research--Google US Government Search
by under_believer ingoogle has just launched a new service they're calling "google u.s. government search," at .
http://www.google.com/ig/usgov.
this is particularly keen because it allows us to easily limit our searches to the .gov tld.
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under_believer
Google has just launched a new service they're calling "Google U.S. Government Search," at
http://www.google.com/ig/usgov. This is particularly keen because it allows us to easily limit our searches to the .gov TLD. Try searching for "watchtower" or "jehovah". Using this resource I have already found some interesting items:- HOLLY BERRY & a. v. WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC. & a., a 2004 appeals hearing regarding a sexual abuse suit wherein an earlier dismissal of Ms. Berry & a.'s claims were dismissed (a sad situation, too... this poor woman went to her elders complaining of "ten to twelve separate occasions that her husband was abusing their children," but the elders did nothing about it.)
- http://www.chaplaincare.navy.mil/JehovahWitnesses.htm, the Navy Chaplain's information page on JW's (taken from religioustolerance.org)
- http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/00-1737.htm, a docket page from the US Supreme Court which lists resources for the well-known WBTS vs Village of Stratton case, including addresses and phone numbers of the Society and MORMON AND BAPTIST (!!!!!) lawyers involved in the case
- http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/cpc/040216.pdf, the Society's zoning and permit submission to the NYC planning commission about the well-known DUMBO construction project
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"Evil Slave" still believed to be "Russelites"?
by Theocrat inas long as i can remember, the wts taught that the "evil slave" mentioned conversely to the fds by jesus were the "russelites", or group of people that followed russel's teachings, but hated rutherford and hated the fact that he took it upon himself to write the final "studies in the scriptures" volume.
then they refused to follow the direction that the organization was going at that time.
they then started their own tight-knit religious group with the sole intention of immortalizing russel and his teachings, which got them the label of "evil slave".
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under_believer
This application was made as recently as 2004 in a Watchtower study, relating the "evil slave" to both the original Russellites, though they are not named but only described, and subsequent "apostates" as well.
*** w04 3/1 pp. 13-14 ‘The Faithful Slave’ Passes the Test! ***
“That Evil Slave”2 Jesus spoke of the evil slave immediately after discussing “the faithful and discreet slave.” He said: “If ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.” (Matthew 24:48-51) The expression “that evil slave” draws our attention to Jesus’ preceding words about the faithful and discreet slave. Yes, the “evil slave” came from the ranks of the faithful slave. How?
3 Before 1914, many members of the faithful slave class had high hopes of meeting with the Bridegroom in heaven that year, but their hopes were not fulfilled. As a result of this and other developments, many were disappointed and a few became embittered. Some of these turned to ‘beating’ their former brothers verbally and consorting with “confirmed drunkards,” religious groups of Christendom.—Isaiah 28:1-3; 32:6.
4 These former Christians came to be identified as the “evil slave,” and Jesus punished them with “the greatest severity.” How? He rejected them, and they lost out on their heavenly hope. They were not, however, immediately destroyed. They first had to endure a period of weeping and gnashing of teeth in “the darkness outside” the Christian congregation. (Matthew 8:12) Since those early days, a few other anointed individuals have shown a similar bad spirit, identifying themselves with the “evil slave.” Some of the “other sheep” have imitated their unfaithfulness. (John 10:16) All such enemies of the Christ end up in the same spiritual “darkness outside.”
5 Nonetheless, the faithful and discreet slave went through the same tests as “that evil slave.” Rather than becoming embittered, however, they were readjusted. (2 Corinthians 13:11) Their love for Jehovah and their brothers was strengthened. As a result, they have been “a pillar and support of the truth” during these tumultuous “last days.”—1 Timothy 3:15; 2 Timothy 3:1. -
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Disfellowshipping Is Love and Other Examples of Orwellian Doublethink
by under_believer ini posted this in response to another thread.
i was sufficiently pleased with the comparison, and i am narcissistic to a sufficient degree that i felt it would be good to post it as an original topic.
disfellowshipping is classic orwellian doublethink.
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under_believer
LDH, I apologize for my phrasing. I was using "crime" interchangeably with "sin." I'll try to fix the original post.
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Revelation 6:6
by rassillon ini am confused, which interpretation of the "olive oil and the wine" did the holy spirit give to the "faithfull slave"?
did the holy spirit forget to correct the reasoning book?
i think jesus and jehovah must be getting confused as to what they are currently teaching the fds, or maybe bethel hasn't paid the bill on that big red phone that jesus calls them on?
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under_believer
double post
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Revelation 6:6
by rassillon ini am confused, which interpretation of the "olive oil and the wine" did the holy spirit give to the "faithfull slave"?
did the holy spirit forget to correct the reasoning book?
i think jesus and jehovah must be getting confused as to what they are currently teaching the fds, or maybe bethel hasn't paid the bill on that big red phone that jesus calls them on?
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under_believer
Am I the only one who feels like that second quote is REAAAALLLY stretching for an interpretation? And that the one they came up with is totally nonsensical? Oh, so Rev 6:6 is advice, now? We need to be careful not to use up ("harm") all our "staples," represented by olive oil and wine?