Scully, that is an excellent point. I hadn't looked at it that way but whether or not that is the stated reasoning behind it, it DEFINITELY serves that purpose. It's one component of a comprehensive litmus test.
under_believer
JoinedPosts by under_believer
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25
Higher Education: Is The Issue Really That Important?
by Warlock inthe catholics think they have the true religion, but they don't discourage higher education.. the protestants think they have the true religion, but they don't discourage higher education.. the j.w.
's think they have the true religion, but yet they do discourage higher education.. why?
do they really think there would be a mass exodus from the org.
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What is the power the Internet has against the WTS, and how best to use it?
by jwfacts init has been discussed that the internet is bringing the wts to its knees far quicker than ever hoped for several reasons:rapid access to research of old publications through databasesanonymous nature of finding informationease of which a person can stumble accross information.
another powerful reason is interactivity with other people.
the ability to rapidly see many ideas on a board like this, ask questions and get answers allows personalisation to the individual needs of every truthseeker.
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under_believer
Will their little god of the living room shelter them from Jehovah’s wrath?
That is by far the best thing I have ever read in a Society publication in a lifetime of reading Society publications. I want to have that engraved on a plaque. OMG every time I look at it it makes me ROFL over again. It's so perfect.
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25
Higher Education: Is The Issue Really That Important?
by Warlock inthe catholics think they have the true religion, but they don't discourage higher education.. the protestants think they have the true religion, but they don't discourage higher education.. the j.w.
's think they have the true religion, but yet they do discourage higher education.. why?
do they really think there would be a mass exodus from the org.
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under_believer
Ostensibly, higher education is forbidden because it betrays a lack of belief that we are in the time of the end. Ostensibly, it's not a strategic ban but a principled one.
In reality, who knows. My personal feeling is that their teachings and doctrines can't hold up to higher education the same way that other mainstream church teachings can. I don't think they realize this overtly--I think they just have seen that few Witnesses who go off to college ever come back, and have assumed (probably rightly) a cause/effect relationship. -
63
What are apostate lies?
by vitty inwith the hotting up of the wt articles about not listening to apostate lies.
i was wondering, when you where in the borg did you ever wonder what these "lies" were.. its a strange thing but i never did.
i never even knew what they said about us and i didnt care.. in other walks of life, if you hear that someone has been lied about, you usually want to know what it is (well i do cos im nosey) but in all my 20 years i didnt wonder about what the apostates were saying.
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under_believer
sbf, would you consider being specific about what in Penton's book you consider to be an attempt to "rewrite history?"
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63
What are apostate lies?
by vitty inwith the hotting up of the wt articles about not listening to apostate lies.
i was wondering, when you where in the borg did you ever wonder what these "lies" were.. its a strange thing but i never did.
i never even knew what they said about us and i didnt care.. in other walks of life, if you hear that someone has been lied about, you usually want to know what it is (well i do cos im nosey) but in all my 20 years i didnt wonder about what the apostates were saying.
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under_believer
Like when apostates state that Jehovah's Witnesses "compromised" with Hitler, tear isolated quotes out of context, and actually claim that the only religious group that stood up to Hitler actually have something to be ashamed of.
sbf, I suggest that you read
and educate yourself on this subject before you go around making foolish accusations. The facts speak for themselves--no need for quoting out of context. The JW's didn't "stand up to Hitler" as you put it until Hitler rejected their attempts at conciliation--and even then it wasn't a universal "standing up to" so much as a "getting hit by the freight train of." And the German Witnesses were far from united on this matter either. Compare how many went into concentration camps with how many were reporting from Germany both before and after the war.
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WERE THERE ANY `YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS,MAN' moments in KH
by badboy indid something say something like that po who said`cats represent the beast' so you shouldn't stroke them'
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under_believer
Heathen, here is the most recent word from the Society on dinosaurs (from 1990):
*** g90 2/8 p. 11 What Happened to the Dinosaurs? ***
The Genesis Account and Dinosaurs
While the radioactive dating method is innovative, it is still based on speculation and assumption. In contrast, the Bible account in the first chapter of Genesis simply states the general order of creation. It allows for possibly thousands of millions of years for the formation of the earth and many millenniums in six creative eras, or “days,” to prepare the earth for human habitation.
Some dinosaurs (and pterosaurs) may indeed have been created in the fifth era listed in Genesis, when the Bible says that God made “flying creatures” and “great sea monsters.” Perhaps other types of dinosaurs were created in the sixth epoch. The vast array of dinosaurs with their huge appetites would have been appropriate considering the abundant vegetation that evidently existed in their time.—Genesis 1:20-24.
When the dinosaurs had fulfilled their purpose, God ended their life. But the Bible is silent on how he did that or when. We can be sure that dinosaurs were created by Jehovah for a purpose, even if we do not fully understand that purpose at this time. They were no mistake, no product of evolution. That they suddenly appear in the fossil record unconnected to any fossil ancestors, and also disappear without leaving connecting fossil links, is evidence against the view that such animals gradually evolved over millions of years of time. Thus, the fossil record does not support the evolution theory. Instead, it harmonizes with the Bible’s view of creative acts of God. -
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Did You Believe "The End" Was Going To Come In Your Lifetime?
by minimus inwhen the society came out in 1966 with the info that 6000 years of man's existence would come to an end by 1975, i thought it was a crock.
for 9 long years, all jws did was speculate about "when" the great tribulation was going to begin.
i always thought of jesus' words about "nobody knowing the day or the hour"----yet jehovah's witnesses figured it out?
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under_believer
Warlock, those of us that were "raised in" (and we make up the majority, at least in Western countries these days) didn't have a choice in the matter. We didn't think in terms of "what is the point of becoming a JW"--we already were JW's.
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25
Evolution and Self-Sacrifice
by IW indoes the theory of evolution supply the genetic answer to the self-sacrificing nature of many animal parents as well as that of many men and women in general?
when a man or woman risks their life to help someone in danger is their response simply a response to the natural processes at work due to evolution's effect on their dna?
if so, can this self-sacrificing gene be isolated?
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under_believer
There is one question I'd like to ask, isn't science working against evolution when we vaccinate ourselves from diseases instead of letting the natual process of selection take place? Wouldn't evolution, if left alone, produce a race of mankind that was better able to resist these diseases by allowing those who are naturally resistant (natural survivors of childhood diseases) to continue to produce children thereby passing down their resistance? (Not to mention the many cancers that run in families and the other genetic conditions that exist.)
Isn't medicine working against the very process most scientists believe created the biological world we live in? I'm not for getting rid of medicine! just trying to understand this seeming inconsistency in the scientific world. Wouldn't allowing nature take its course be the best thing if man truly believes that natural processes have created such a remarkable living little planet as the one we all call home?
As other posters have pointed out, evolution has no specific goal. Subsequent generations are not necessarily "superior" to their ancestors--they are simply more adapted. All things being equal, your "caveman" ancestors (supposing they really existed) could easily kick your ass in single combat.
This is one of the primary misconceptions I needed to release myself from when I first started studying evolution--this idea that there has been a smooth process of improvement over the billions of years of life on earth. In reality it's been fits and starts and false positives and mistakes and dead ends.
And the point the other posters here are trying to make is that medicine, science, and technology are PART OF evolution. They are part of the natural world. Was it a bad idea for ants to develop the ability build hives? Some cow can come over and kick their ant hill over, and they'll all die. They're dependent on that ant hill. In a similar way humans are slowly becoming dependent on their own ant hills, and have been dependent on the use of tools for millions of years.
Do I agree with this? It's sounding more and more reasonable to me.
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16
peak oil?
by PrimateDave ini know we have some intelligent people here, so i thought i might ask what you think about 'peak oil'.
i became familiar with the concept after watching a video a year and a half ago called "the end of suburbia".
it was strange at the time because i remembered reading a 2003 awake!
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under_believer
mavie is correct. The Witnesses are what are known as "old Earth creationists." This allows their members to subscribe to whatever theory of oil creation they want. There may be an axe to grind among certain Watchtower writers, but the old earth doctrine prevents them from making it official.
As far as peak oil itself, well, the oil supply is definitely dwindling--this is not a controversial statement and is pretty much universally accepted. Even the oil-drunk Bush Administration acknowledges that. What happens as it continues to dwindle and prices go up--and how long that dwindling and inflation takes to come to full fruition--is anybody's guess. For an extreme peak oil viewpoint I suggest reading the blog Clusterfuck Nation, but keep in mind that Kunstler, the writer of that blog, DEFINITELY has an axe to grind. He's a very good writer, though, which makes reading him a pleasure whether you agree or not.
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43
What is the power the Internet has against the WTS, and how best to use it?
by jwfacts init has been discussed that the internet is bringing the wts to its knees far quicker than ever hoped for several reasons:rapid access to research of old publications through databasesanonymous nature of finding informationease of which a person can stumble accross information.
another powerful reason is interactivity with other people.
the ability to rapidly see many ideas on a board like this, ask questions and get answers allows personalisation to the individual needs of every truthseeker.
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under_believer
I don't know if anybody's read this or if it's been posted here before, but here is an excellent article from the magazine Liberty.. It's all about how the Internet has impacted Jehovah's Witnesses. It's called The Truth vs. the truth and it's written by Stephen Cox. I suspect many here have read it--I doubt it could have been prepared without a lot of help from the H2O community.
It's an excellent read and it shows, for me, that yes, the Internet is definitely having a huge effect, and that really, nothing more needs to be done. The forums and websites that already exist are doing the job.