freetosee

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Posts by freetosee

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  51

  At This Point, Would You Care If You Are or Were Disfellowshipped???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at this stage of "coming out" of the "truth", would it faze you if you were disfellowshipped?

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  freetosee

  Minimus,
  "So do they not say that someone is DISFELLOWSHIPPED and ONLY that they are no longer JWS???"
  They say you are either DF, DA or "no longer recognized as JW" depending on the case. -for example: you would be announced “as no longer recognized as one of JWs”. Now for the local congregational member this means equal to you being disfellowshipped, but to the law ‘you just not being recognized’ is of no significance. Just like you could be recognized to be a JW, when you actually are not. (Thinking of the WTS self presentation –men of old, the Israelites and Jesus are considered to be Jehovah’s Witnesses- one should ask, when does one begin being a JW? Or at what point does one stop?) Legally one is recognized as qualified to drive a vehicle when one receives a driving licence, even though one may have been able to drive years before being licensed. Most of the times when people lose there licence it is much too late.
  If you were not D’F by the congregation elders, you could not sue the WTS or cong. successfully, because you are still a publisher. It is like you are not fired and are just not coming to work.
  So there is a noteworthy difference between in being disfellowshipped or disassociated and also “not recognized as JW”.
  Freetosee
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  90

  May 28--Four years since Dateline's JW sex abuse program aired. Results?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  sunday, may 28, 2006, is the fourth anniversary from when a threshold was crossed into uncharted waters.

  on may 28, 2002, the u.s. television news program, dateline, publicized to millions of viewers the facts about watchtower's deceitful child abuse policies which protect pedophiles who target and molest jws' vulnerable children.

  subsequently, this subject caught the interest of media throughout the world who, through careful investigation, substantiated the allegations made on dateline.

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  freetosee

  Thank you for getting the ball rolling, Barbara.
  I am happy to say that here in Germany this problem has been recognized by authorities. Also because of the Michael Jackson scandal focus was on the JWs by the public.
  I me this is very important, for the reason that two of my sisters are victims. JWs should teach and believe what they want to, but this cover-up has to stop. I fear pedophiles go into the JW community for the very purpose of entering their perverted paradise.
  Thanks to all victims for speaking up and helping other.
  Freetosee
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  106

  Another poll: raised in or came in?

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  someone asked a question in the "what generation are you" thread:.

  were you "raised in the truth," or did you "come into the truth?".

  i was raised..

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  freetosee

  Indoctrinated, drilled and trained from childhood on!
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  97

  What generation JW are you?

  by crazycate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i'm 3rd generation.

  cate

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  freetosee

  Only second!
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  23

  Why did Jehovah make Jews kill for the Promise Land?!!!!

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it sounds rediculous, doesn't it?

  jehovah promised the jews the land of canaan that was inhabited by many tribes.

  he had the power to give it to them peacefully but instead got them to commit genocide, rape and pillage and destruction.

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  freetosee

  I copied some of the (verse-by-verse) Adam Clarke Commentaries (ACC) as follows (Emphasis always mine):

  1 Sam 15:3

  Verse 3 . Slay both man and woman -Nothing could justify such an exterminating decree BUT THE ABSOLUTE AUTORITY OF GOD. This was given: ALL THE REASON OF IT WE DO NOT KNOW; but this we know well, The Judge of all the earth doth right. This war was not for plunder, for God commanded that all the property as well as all the people should be destroyed. (ACC)

  Verse 33 . As thy sword hath made women childless -It appears that Agag had forfeited his life by his own personal transgressions, and that his death now was the retribution of his cruelties.

  And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces -1. What Samuel DID here he did in his magisterial capacity; and, 2. It is NOT likely he did it by his OWN SWORD, BUT by that of an EXECUTIONER. What kings, magistrates, and generals do, in an official way, by their subjects, servants, or soldiers, they are said to do themselves; qui facit per alterum, facit per se. (ACC)

  Psalm 137:8, 9

  These prophetic declarations contain no excitement to any person or persons to commit acts of cruelty and barbarity; but are simply declarative of what would take place in the order of the retributive providence and justice of God, and the general opinion that should in consequence be expressed on the subject; therefore praying for the destruction of our enemies is totally out of the question. It should not be omitted that the Chaldee considers this Psalm a dialogue, which it thus divides:-The three first verses are supposed to have been spoken by the psalmist, By the rivers, Psalms 137:4 , How shall we sing, Holy Spirit responds in Psalms 137:5,6 , If I forget thee, Michael, the prince of Jerusalem, answers in Psalms 137:7 , Remember, O Lord, Gabriel, the prince of Zion, then addresses the destroyer of the Babylonish nation, in Psalms 137:8,9 , Happy shall be he that rewardeth thee, was sacked, both male and female, old and young, was a common practice in ancient times. … These excesses were common in all barbarous nations, and are only prophetically declared here. He shall be reputed happy, prosperous, and highly commendable, who shall destroy

  Judges 19:24-30

  Verse 24 . Here is my daughter, a maiden -Such a proposal was made by to the men of , Genesis 19:8, but nothing can excuse either. That the rights of hospitality were sacred in the East, and most highly regarded we know; and that a man would defend, at the expense of his life, the stranger whom he had admitted under his roof, is true; but how a father could make such a proposal relative to his virgin daughter, must remain among those things which are incomprehensible. (ACC)

  Verse 29 . Divided her-into twelve pieces -There is no doubt that with the pieces he sent to each tribe a circumstantial account of the barbarity of the men of Gibeah; and it is very likely that they considered each of the pieces as expressing an execration, "If ye will not come and avenge my wrongs, may ye be hewn in pieces like this abused and murdered woman!" (ACC)

  Judges 21:13-18

  Verse 14 . Yet so they sufficed them not. -There were six hundred men at Rimmon, and all the young women they saved from Jabesh were only four hundred; therefore, there were two hundred still wanting. (ACC)

  Judges21:19-23 (THIS IS ORGANIZED RAPE!)

  Verse 21 . And catch you every man his wife
  That is, Let each man of the two hundred Benjamites seize and carry off a woman, whom he is, from that hour, to consider as his wife. (ACC)

  Numbers 31:17, 18 (KJ)

  “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, KEEP ALIVE FOR YOURSELVES.”

  Verse 17 . Kill every male among the little ones -For this action I account simply on the principle that God, who is the author and supporter of life, has a right to dispose of it when and how he thinks proper; and the Judge of all the earth can do nothing but what is right. Of the women killed on this occasion it may be safely said, their lives were forfeited by their personal transgressions; and yet even in this case there can be little doubt that God showed mercy to their souls. The little ones were safely lodged; they were taken to heaven and saved from the evil to come. (ACC)

  Verse 18

  No comment by ACC!

  The female children were spared, who, being brought up among the Israelites, would not tempt them to idolatry. The whole history shows the hatefulness of sin, and the guilt of tempting others; it teaches us to avoid all occasions of evil, and to give no quarter to inward lusts. The women and children were NOT KEPT FOR SINFUL PURPOSES, but for slaves, A CUSTOM EVERY WHERE PRACTISED IN FORMER TIMES, as to captives. ( Matthew Henry Commentary)

  This is absolutely not true! Rape was very rampant in those days. Just reading all the above scriptures show how females were considered (also De 28:30, Isa 13:16, Zac14:2). If God says it is just, then evil is good. My conscience does not allow me to agree with this.

  Freetosee
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  51

  At This Point, Would You Care If You Are or Were Disfellowshipped???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at this stage of "coming out" of the "truth", would it faze you if you were disfellowshipped?

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  freetosee

  Dear Bonni_Clyde,
  I have to disagree with you. Your question is not a dumb question at all.
  I have been told that there is a significant difference when announcing “the body of elders has D’F Soandso” or “Soandso is no longer recognized as one of JW’s”. Because D’F in the past have sued the WT for being shunned by their family for accepting blood, voting or military service. The German courts and government made this an issue. Speaking to a responsible person of the Berlin senate I was told, no one was ever D’F for taking blood.
  When a “Not a JW” announcement is made your ‘publisher record card’ continue to carry you as inactive publisher, not D’F. When you are D’F your card will say that you are.
  We know the shunning is practiced the same way in both cases, but there is a significant legal difference to my understanding. The WTS can now state that the shunning of the person is purely the personal decision of their family.
  It may be of interest, the official could tell me about 1 1/2 years before the WT policy change on blood and voting that it was coming and that in Sweden it was the standard a long time before other countries changed, -double standard!
  So it is another trickery used by the WTS.
  Freetosee
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  51

  At This Point, Would You Care If You Are or Were Disfellowshipped???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at this stage of "coming out" of the "truth", would it faze you if you were disfellowshipped?

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  freetosee

  Out of principal I think I should DA myself, on the other hand I can still speak to all of them, which I feel is very precious and lets me drop in a few questions to start some thinking. Some of the JW I meet don’t know I have been inactive for 10 years and think I’m serving where the need is great.
  If I find out that I was disfellowshipped it wouldn’t bother me either.
  Freetosee
  Addition: since I belonged to a foreign-language congregation our circlet is spread throughout Germany!
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  11

  Question about Genesis account of creation.

  by wanderlustguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the first chapter of genesis, the creation account goes like this...in general:.

  earth.

  plants.

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  freetosee

  WLG, I think you might find this interesting as it follows your line of thought: http://www.dhushara.com/book/consum/consum1.htm

  Freetosee
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  11

  Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 07-04-06 Church Sermon

  by scout575 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "enter ye at the strait gate for wide is the gate and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

  " ( matthew 7:13,14 ).

  "then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, depart from me ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

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  freetosee

  Hi Scout,
  I agree, to me the bible isn’t very in righteous many ways. Good Christians I know don’t approach the bible as we did as JW’s. Some of them don’t take the bible as literal and they admit to the human factor in it and still find much pleasure in their worship. I am very happy for them. It is great to take out the good parts and live by them. The judgmental parts and attitudes are most disturbing to me.
  freetosee
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  33

  The "study" went GREAT, my mom NOW has questions!!!!

  by FreedomFrog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, as some of you know, i was suppose to have a "study" with my mom and an elders wife yesterday.

  well, the elders wife couldn't make it because "something came up".

  i guess it was more important than my salvation.. anyway, i still went to my parents house.

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  freetosee

  That’s a good one Mary! The whole teaching crumbles down on this one.

  Is this the one you mean: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/112819/1.ashx

  Keeping it simple is important. I found “Gentiletimes Reconsidered” difficult yet very good to read