ok, let's assume this "horse" is flatulent, and stop examining this end.
we walk around to the other side of this horse, pet him on the nose, and feed him some sugar.
thus, steering a contentious issue away from its negative side, and paying attention to the positive side, the question begs: what sort of people will not be destroyed by god?
Beck_Melbourne wrote:Downunder isn't online at the moment, I'll show her your response as she may want to post a reply to you over the weekend (our weekend starts now )Btw...first time I've read your story... interesting.
I appreciate that.
Perhaps you might like to share your story?
Derrick
it's remarkable the memories we repress.
one came back today.
many moons ago as a young zealous "publisher" i lived with a house full of single brothers (some former bethelites and others aspiring wannabe bethelites).
It's remarkable the memories we repress. One came back today. Many moons ago as a young zealous "publisher" I lived with a house full of single brothers (some former Bethelites and others aspiring wannabe Bethelites). One brother used to tell others at dinner that the hot water bottle hanging on the hook behind the hall bathroom door was for enemas. He then proceeded to liken coffee enemas to the "mental enemas" that cleared his mind. What was he likening to a "mental enema" you might wonder? The Watchtower publications including its magazines, books and KM! He compared literal enemas that "flush out all the gunk" to their analogous mental enemas that "flush out all the worldliness." Isn't that funny?
Derrick
i ran across this shocking article and thought it might be of interest:.
http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0108a.html.
with extreme cynicism and brutality an ex-convict made short work of a female sectarian from the "jehovah's witnesses" religious society.
My point (with all due respect to the deceased) was that this is one experience you will never hear at the assembly. The existance on non-reported experiences that congtradict their theories, makes them liars.
There is really no contradiction with her brutal murder and being one of Jehovah's Witnesses or any other evangelical Christian religion for that matter. There are numerous accounts in the Bible of messengers from Jehovah who were martyred for their faith.
The Watchtower Society in its 1975 Yearbook described heinous sexual torture of Jehovah's Witnesses in Nazi concentration camps.
They were ordered to renounce their faith, and refused resulting in their captors torturing them to death. Many were tied from the ceiling by their wrists naked and freezing water was thrown on them. Then their genitals were electrocuted enough to torture but not kill them. They were told that if they simply renounced their faith in Jehovah God, they would be freed and given a warm bed and hot meal. Failure to renounce their faith would result in their slow disfigurement and dismemberment including removal of sexual organs. They died horrible deaths without compromise.
If we want to get into the discussion of angelic protection, many JWs have acknowledged it came not through literal intervention. Rather, sometimes during the torture all sense of feeling suddenly disappeared. Some of the Nazi survivors who endured the preceding scenario and lived, reported their bodies suddenly went numb and they actually felt at peace. Some who witnessed the torture and murder of their brothers and sisters reported that some suddenly died, to the chagrin of their tormentors, when the object was to keep them alive to suffer. It was as if Jehovah was preventing them from suffering beyond what they could endure, and they passed away to await the resurrection.
Although many find it horrifying that people would actually suffering such horrible deaths rather than renounce God, it has been done throughout the millenniums from Christ until today by those of various Christian faiths. Missionaries in communist countries from various Protestant and Catholic faiths have been tortured and murdered in terrible ways, after refusing to renounce God or call down evil on Him.
Even though there are many faults with JWs, one can never wipe from history the living testament by some JWs who suffered for their faith, some dying terrible deaths.
This woman who was murdered placed her faith in Jehovah God's ability to give her eternal life in His everlasting kingdom. Her death is but temporary. She placed herself at great risk to bring the good news to the type of wicked people that Christ ministered to. Like Christ, she was brutally murdered for placing herself in a dangerous situation in order to share God's written word with others. She is really like so many "Saints" as they are called in other Christian religions who placed the will of God before themselves.
Derrick
sometimes us 'net' savey dudes tend to get a little lax.. we all know and if we don't, we should, that there are people who read these boards who gather "information".. some of it is used against us to "turn us in", and other wise cause us harm.. i've been careful to not reveal my "true" identity hear, as it is a public forum, however, not careful enough.. my picture, and some desciptions i've used in writing my storiy, and describing my whereabouts, though never specific, have led, i believe, to someone learning where i live exactly, and when i would/wouldn't be home so that an act of crime could be commited against myself.. the time period i refer to is from this post:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=28606&site=3.
its taken this long for me to figure this out, who did it, and how.
I'm sorry to hear about the crime committed against you, and hope you have pressed charges against the individual responsible. I tried to warn people as far back as 1996 to be careful on these forums but was flamed as "paranoid" and "delusional" etc... I'm thankful that those like yourself have become "net saavy" and know how to reduce the risk.
Derrick
i ran across this shocking article and thought it might be of interest:.
http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0108a.html.
with extreme cynicism and brutality an ex-convict made short work of a female sectarian from the "jehovah's witnesses" religious society.
I hope they put that man naked in the vicious dog section of the pound, smother his balls in A-1 sauce - HERE PUPPY HERE PUPPY - BAD PUPPY BAD PUPPY!
As the Russians might respond, you're too kind! They vill never let him off this easy!
Derrick
i ran across this shocking article and thought it might be of interest:.
http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0108a.html.
with extreme cynicism and brutality an ex-convict made short work of a female sectarian from the "jehovah's witnesses" religious society.
Where did they get the details of what they did together (had tea and talked) and what they talked about if she's dead and he's denying it?
My mom was raised under the Soviet communist empire and said that in Russia, everything's "wired". There is no privacy. Since she was a JW, they probably had her apartment under extra surveillance since the Russian government has always been suspicious of the Watchtower Society's activities there.
By the way, that guy will suffer hell on earth during his 18 year incarceration, probably in Siberia. The guards always make sure the really sick pervert monsters always have an "accident" shortly before their release. They go through hell and then never make it out alive. Russians have no patience for evildoers. Those unlucky enough to escape get hunted down and killed on the spot. The Russian government's intolerance for murderers was demonstrated toward the end of the recently released movie "Sum Of All Fears" definitely worth renting.
By the way, for those interested, my mom was not a communist. She hated their guts, and escaped the Iron Curtain and came into America through Ellis Island. Mom taught me the evils of communism, and that America for all its faults is truly the best country to be in this world. Nevertheless, the Russian people themselves are not evil but a very complicated and moral people. In the end, they destroyed communism and it's so sad how they are suffering economically and spiritually today.
Derrick
i ran across this shocking article and thought it might be of interest:.
http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0108a.html.
with extreme cynicism and brutality an ex-convict made short work of a female sectarian from the "jehovah's witnesses" religious society.
I ran across this shocking article and thought it might be of interest:
http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0108a.html
With extreme cynicism and brutality an ex-convict made short work of a female sectarian from the "Jehovah's Witnesses" religious society. He had just been released from prison where he served a term for murder. The Muscovite had invited him to her home to talk about God and after the talk the monster attacked her in the chest with two pairs of knives and plundered the apartment. Recently the Moscow City Court sentenced the murderer.
It has become known to MK that in October 2000 the twenty-nine-year-old Muscovite Sergei Sokolov was released from prison ahead of time on an amnesty and began living with his father in the capital. Two weeks after his release, on 1 November, around eleven in the morning Sokolov met two women near his house on Bolshaia Cherkizovskaia street. The women introduced themselves to Sokolov as evangelists from the "Jehovah's Witnesses" religious society and began a conversation about God. Solokov immediately told them that he recently served a prison term for murder. However the confession did not bother the women at all. Moreover, one of them, forty-nine-year-old Valentina Goncharova, presented the recent convict religious pamphlets and even invited him to visit her at any time if he had questions about the Bible (it seems they lived in the same building). At this the new acquaintances parted. But by noon Sokolov appeared at the apartment of the hospitable sectarian.
Goncharova was home alone; her husband was at work. Over tea the woman talked with the guest about her organization, about the belief in the Trinity, and about the Bible. At approximately three o'clock she interrupted the intense conversation and said that it was time for her to go to the hospital to visit a friend. Sokolov went into the entry and began to put on his coat while the hostess wrote down her phone number for him. But the guest did not plan to leave so quickly. The man suddenly attacked the evangelist with his fists and beat her about the face and neck and kicked her. Goncharova tried to resist and even scratched her attacker's nose and then ran into the kitchen, but Sokolov grabbed her by her skirt and threw her onto the floor. Then he grabbed from the table two pairs of knives and repeatedly plunged them into his victim's chest. After this the sadist stole from a vase on the dresser all the jewelry, five silver necklaces, a pair of gold earrings, and two wedding rings worth a total of 10,600 rubles.
The woman's body was discovered that evening by her husband when he returned from work. He summoned the police and telephoned the friend of his wife, who told the officers about their chance acquaintance with Sokolov. Several days later the murderer was arrested in his father's apartment. The blood of his victim was still on Sokolov's jeans and jacket.
The accused denied his involvement in the crime. Besides murder and robbery the investigation also incriminated Sokolov with attempted rape of the sectarian; the dead woman was found completely nude. However the sex charge was not proven. But even without this the court sentenced Sokolov to 18 years in prison with confiscation of property. (tr. by PDS, posted 1 August 2001)
Source: http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0108a.html
Derrick
the visiting co pointed out in his talk that "people who love to practice evil will be destroyed [very strong vocal emphasis on this word] !
" many of you insist he is referring to those whose only "sin" is not being a baptized jehovah's witness and their children.
after my experiences on the internet from ajwr to h2o to this forum, however, i'm beginning to appreciate that all is not "black" and "white" but many shades of gray, many hues of stunning colors, and a mixture.. why not use the words killed or executed to describe the fate of these evil people, i asked the co afterwards?
RandomTask wrote:But the problem is that your witnesses have strayed so far from the original intent of just studying the bible as C.T. Russel first started the group, to becoming a full blown fundamentalist cult with a plethora of rules and regulations which add "the wisdom of men" to what is written in the bible.
Perceptive. What would you suggest is the answer to get this derailed train upright, back onto the tracks, and moving foward in the right direction again?
Derrick
the visiting co pointed out in his talk that "people who love to practice evil will be destroyed [very strong vocal emphasis on this word] !
" many of you insist he is referring to those whose only "sin" is not being a baptized jehovah's witness and their children.
after my experiences on the internet from ajwr to h2o to this forum, however, i'm beginning to appreciate that all is not "black" and "white" but many shades of gray, many hues of stunning colors, and a mixture.. why not use the words killed or executed to describe the fate of these evil people, i asked the co afterwards?
It's a pretty weak arguement, designed to scare anyone who questions into compliancy.
The real purpose of its "design" from my standpoint is not with the intent to frighten people, but to share what I know with them. I believe this helps people start to ponder what is God's true purpose for creating us, and to seriously think about the age old question "is this life all there is?"
And it makes me question even more if there really is any such thing as free will.If there were, why would you feel the need to attack those who feel differently with such blanket stereotypes?
God created free will for a purpose. That purpose was not to give an ultimatum to people as much as it was to give people freedom to act within the law. People in democratic countries understand that true freedom includes necessary laws in order to protect everyone. God's laws are similar, not designed to oppress but designed to maintain peace and security for everyone, and protect the right of all living people and all living things to live free lives to the fullest.
If your God is the All Knowing Supreme Ruler,can't you just let them believe and live as they wish and let your God figure it all out?
Through the pages of the Bible, the true God of the universe asks those who benefit from its wisdom to share that wisdom with others. That doesn't mean cramming it down their throats but simply sharing, just as they might share their beliefs with ourselves. Mutual respect for all beliefs is tenamount to true Christianity. Sadly the Society has been slow in learning this important lesson, but give them time. One must learn to "walk" before they can "run"!
But with organized religion, it never seems to work that way, does it?
No, it sure doesn't. That is why Pastor Charles Taze Russell, founder of Zion's Watch Tower magazine in the late 1800's, publicly declared that "religion is a snare and a racket!" to the angst of many (but not all) in Christendom's clergy class.
I appreciate your thoughts.
Derrick
this parable is for the (few) shameful f iends who are attacking ray... and the sheep class who are rushing along, thinking they have understood (rather like they thought they understood the truth of "mother's" teachings?)..
the parable of the painting.
"i am the most trusted servant commissioned by my employer enoch to go to market to buy a work of art for him as an investment (the stockmarket keeps falling, so...).
Bill slandered, period. The 'media needs a showman' is merely finding an excuse for dishonorable behavior ... yes, the media 'feeds' on that stuff ... but the victims do not need that stuff done on their behalf. I am not defending Ray, as I have not stated my position on what I think he could-should do or say ... I am not attacking anyone ... I am stating my observations as I honestly see them.
That is quite an amazing observation, considering that Bill stated his observations as he honestly saw them.
I almost added that perhaps you're pointing out that observations turn into "slander" when those observations do not paint the observed in a favorable light. However, considering that your observation is that "Bill slandered, period" and further alludes to "dishonorable behavior" that Bill is implied to have "done on the (victims) behalf," you're honest observations paint Bill in an unfavorable light the same as Bill's honest observations paint Ray in an unfavorable light.
In MY HONEST OBSERVATION you are observing that "Bill slandered" because it was, well, Bill who did it. Of course you did NOT slander Bill in your unfavorable but let's not forget HONEST observation about him, because you did it.
May I also make the honest observation that some people define "slander" as honest criticism when it is they who are doing the honest criticizing. When it is someone else making the honest observation about someone that casts them in an unfavorable light, suddenly it becomes "slander." I am not defending Bill, as I have not stated my position on what I think he could-should do or say ... I am not attacking anyone ... I am stating my observations as I honestly see them.
Derrick
