PrimateDave

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Posts by PrimateDave

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  11

  Okay - how to translate the AWFUL greek of Revelation.

  by hamsterbait in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been thinking about leos post on revelation.. the early church fathers could see how bad the greek was.

  unfortunately modern translations iron everything out and make it sound perfectly cogent.

  by correcting the grammar en route to the target language, the scholars are actually hiding the real text, and so prevent us from realising that it could have been written by a wing nut.. are there any places where the use of the language is so bad, that if we translated honestly we might get:.

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  PrimateDave

  Curious. I read Leolaia's excellent post on Revelation too. Is the Greek text in today's popular interlinear translations also a corrected text? How can one know that they have the "original" text and not some version later corrected according to some religious ideology?
  
  Dave
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  10

  Do you want to know the truth? WT's new campain...

  by justhuman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone see the new wt's campain

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  PrimateDave

  I was just trying to remember the "urgent" message of last year's tract (or was it the year before). Something about the imminent demise of false religion? So easily forgotten.
  
  Dave
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  10

  What's so bad about NWO?

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  isn't a new world order a new system of things?

  isn't this what the jws want?.

  doesn't the new order promise to be a socialistic movement where everyone is equal and alike?

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  PrimateDave

  Isn't a new world order a new system of things?
  
  "There is nothing new under the sun." - Attributed to King Solomon.
  
  Isn't this what the JWs want?
  
  When it comes down to it, JWs are just humans with the same basic needs, wants, and fears as everyone else on this planet.
  
  Doesn't the new order promise to be a socialistic movement where everyone is equal and alike? Isn't that sort of what the paradise promotes...equal distribution of assets and everyone thinking alike?
  
  You need to give a better definition of Socialism, since your definition may not be the same as that understood by someone else. JWs are taught to accept a hierarchy with God, Christ, and the 144,000 king-priests at the top, a Theocracy, according to their doctrine. That hierarchy extends into the human realm with the "Governing Body" at the top, at least in theory. I have yet to see any "equal distribution of assets" occur within the organization. Assets flow from the bottom to the top, just like any profitable religion.
  
  I'm not sure that "everyone thinking alike" has anything to do with Socialism. There are a number of Economic Systems that are theoretically viable, and within Socialism there are many divergent ideologies. Furthermore, I think you are confusing Economic Systems with Political Systems and Forms of Government like Totalitarianism.
  
  Doesn't the new order promote cleaning up the earth and healing the planet? Isn't that what the paradise concept promotes?
  
  The NWO is about global political and economic stability. Perceived environmental threats to that stability are dealt with only to the extent that these problems can affect those who live in "gated communities." Unbridled economic growth is the only thing that matters, while lip service is given to so-called "green" industries. Faith in future technological advancements allows the current leaders of the NWO to consume the natural capital of the planet far in excess of what scientists consider sustainable. While the world's leaders and their economist "priests" predict growth and prosperity into the indefinite future, researchers warn that "America is irreparably overextended—living hopelessly beyond our means ecologically and economically." (See http://energybulletin.net/node/46892) The "left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing," so to speak.
  
  The "paradise concept" of Jehovah's Witnesses appears to be some 1950's suburban fantasy with tame "wild" animals for pets. Everyone is so well dressed, but you never see the textile mills and factories full of people making all that clothing! I guess once again the Third World gets the short end of the stick in Paradise! There is a vague notion of advanced technology and space travel along with an abundance of everything that is needed or wanted because the great "Captain Picard" in the sky will tell his "Number One" to "make it so."
  
  Doesn't the new world order promote living in harmony with nature? Doesn't that sound like paradise concept?
  
  I think you're repeating yourself.
  
  Immortality? It's at the threshold. Scientists have found the answers to creating immortal cells to regenerate aging humans. (There are some interesting articles concerning the use of synthetic DNA as well as MAGIC (magnetism-based interactive capture).)
  
  LOL! We can't provide health care for millions of children in the United States, but maybe we'll soon have the technology to keep the richest SOBs alive forever! Personally, I think an improvement of quality of life in the later years of a normal human life span can be achieved, but immortality is just not possible in this Universe. I don't see how this compares to what JWs teach, beyond their use of pseudo-science to make the ridiculous claim that we were "designed" to live forever.
  
  Seems to me that Armageddon must come before this NWO can fall into place. There is no god who will quietly dispose of "offensive humans". This is going to be man against man. Will Armageddon be a religious war...like the crusades?
  
  Wars in this day and age are resource wars. We Americans must "liberate" our rightful resources from poor brown people who live on top of them in other parts of the world. (Please note heavy use of sarcasm in that last statement, okay?) I'm not so sure this question is relevant to your posted topic.
  
  Dave
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  19

  When were the Earliest Bible books composed?

  by gaiagirl in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to the table in the back of the nwt, genesis and exodus were composed around 1300 bce, by moses (who also wrote in exodus about his own death, nice feat).

  however, the oldest existing copies or fragments of genesis are only from around 200 bce.. .

  additionally, comparison of genesis with sumerian and babylonian creation accounts reveal many, many similarities, and the sumerians and babylonians had there stories long before 1300 bce...so it appears that someone copied someone else merely changing a few names to suit a different audience.

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  PrimateDave

  Frankly, Reniaa, if you haven't at least read the book Who Wrote the Bible? then you really have no basis on which to commend or criticize it. Read the book (not a review of it), and then you will have something useful to contribute. Leolaia's excellent post above will make much more sense to someone with a good understanding of the Documentary Hypothesis and its long history.
  
  There is no absolute "truth" being promoted here. Real Scholars can and do disagree, but they can back up their arguments in open debate, not hiding behind a veil of "divinely revealed" dogma. No, I am not a Scholar, and, no, I am not challenging anyone to a debate. I make my point about the Watchtower Society's lack of Scholarship based on a wealth of information freely available to anyone who chooses to examine it. If you choose to ignore it by making nonsensical objections, then I choose to ignore your replies.
  
  Dave
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  19

  When were the Earliest Bible books composed?

  by gaiagirl in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to the table in the back of the nwt, genesis and exodus were composed around 1300 bce, by moses (who also wrote in exodus about his own death, nice feat).

  however, the oldest existing copies or fragments of genesis are only from around 200 bce.. .

  additionally, comparison of genesis with sumerian and babylonian creation accounts reveal many, many similarities, and the sumerians and babylonians had there stories long before 1300 bce...so it appears that someone copied someone else merely changing a few names to suit a different audience.

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  PrimateDave

  I highly recommend Richard Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible? He gives a scholarly, yet very readable, account of the origins of Genesis through Deuteronomy with insight into other parts of the so-called Old Testament. He presents time frames similar to those in Leolaia's post above.
  
  Friedman's book is based on the Documentary Hypothesis, aka Higher Criticism. The Watchtower Society has condemned Higher Criticism in its publications, but never once has the Society given an objective explanation of the Documentary Hypothesis nor presented any type of Scholarship with a viable alternative. Mr. Friedman himself admits that real Biblical Scholarship is about gathering evidence and revising theories based on an accumulating body of knowledge. His intellectual honesty is very refreshing. It contrasts starkly with the "scholarship" of the Watchtower Society and other Fundamentalist Christian groups.
  
  Dave
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  45

  Pro's and Con's of DAing myself.

  by lancelink in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been wrestling with the idea of da'ing myself for close to a year now.

  but there is a small area in my subconscious that whispers "this is not a good idea.

  i haven't been to a meeting in over six months, no service in seven years.

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  PrimateDave

  I DA'd myself verbally. I told the PO himself that I didn't want to be a Witness anymore. I did write short emails to my family because they live far away.
  
  I had made my decision to stop attending meetings and participating in service rather abruptly, so I was getting calls from the elders and members of the congregation. My family has always stayed in close contact with me. They would always ask about the congregation and other Witness matters. I didn't want to lie to them and pretend I was still active. Fading wasn't an option for me.
  
  Every one has different circumstances, so what worked for me wouldn't necessarily be the best course of action for another person. I haven't heard anything from the local congregation for two years, and that's fine with me.
  
  Despite DAing myself, my family has still kept in touch, most likely because I refused to argue doctrine with them from the start. So, there are no hard feelings despite somewhat strained relations.
  
  Dave
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  15

  Do you consider yourself a monkey's uncle?

  by compound complex in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  or, less simply stated (asked, actually): did you get here by creation or evolution?

  i mean you personally.

  there are some lovely books on the subject, but i trust your gut feeling more than i do a certain book-publishing-empire-posing-as-a-religion-that-shall-remain-nameless-but-its-initials-are-xxx&xx and, of late, has been accused of scholastic dishonesty!

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  PrimateDave

  I know fellow evolutionists will soon get on your case about cladistic technicalities. In other words, we are not descended from modern monkeys and apes, but we share common ancestry. Technicalities aside, I know and understand what you are getting at.
  
  To answer your question, yes. I see in my minds eye an unbroken lineage between myself and the first living microbes that existed on this planet. My human ancestry alone extends back tens of thousands of generations. At some point that makes you, me and every other human a relative. Going back several hundred thousand generations puts my ancestors among apes similar to the the chimpanzees that survive today. It is an unbroken cycle of reproduction, birth, survival, and reproduction.
  
  Dave
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  9

  Thanks for all the fish

  by Qcmbr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i haven't posted in a while during an interesting period in my life.

  for a long time i posted here and often filled the role as a partial mormon apologist (though more to bring balance to 'the force' than anything else - i was never after converts!

  ) and this following final goodbye will explain all: .

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  PrimateDave

  Sorry, this is getting OT, but are you starting to promote Scientology, jaguarbass?
  
  Review of Gods of Eden
  
  Dave
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  9

  Thanks for all the fish

  by Qcmbr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i haven't posted in a while during an interesting period in my life.

  for a long time i posted here and often filled the role as a partial mormon apologist (though more to bring balance to 'the force' than anything else - i was never after converts!

  ) and this following final goodbye will explain all: .

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  PrimateDave

  Very nice farewell post. I kind of figured it was a farewell post due to the Douglas Adams reference in the title. You have definitely done your "homework," and it has obviously empowered you in your life journey. I wish you every success in the future.
  
  Dave (yet another ;)
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  25

  "The Scholastic Dishonesty of The WATCHTOWER" as a pdf?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  does anyone know if "the scholastic dishonesty of the watchtower", published by caris, has been made into a pdf?.

  there has been so much excellent material posted here as pdf files, but i forgotten if the above has been posted.. if it has been made available, is a currently active link for it that works?.

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  PrimateDave

  Thank you! This looks interesting!
  
  Dave