Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man (and that includes the Governing Body!) to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to the dust, and in that day his thoughts do perish.
Dave
PrimateDave
JoinedPosts by PrimateDave
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11
How much JW do you have left in yourself?
by JH insay something that jw's preach that you still believe in.
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PrimateDave
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32
How "old" is the oldest person who lived in your family?
by JH ini was just wondering how old can a person live.
my grandmother lived up to 97, almost 98. .
those born in 1914 are 92 years old and some are still alive.. i guess that no one lived over 120 years since the flood.. how "old" is the oldest person who lived in your family?
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PrimateDave
(Genesis 6:1-3) 6 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. 3 After that Jehovah said: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.”
An interpretation of this scripture is that god decided to end all life on earth within 120 years.
According to Genesis, Abraham was born 352 years after the flood. He died at 175 years of age. Not bad for a polytheistic idol worshipper! ;)
Dave -
32
How "old" is the oldest person who lived in your family?
by JH ini was just wondering how old can a person live.
my grandmother lived up to 97, almost 98. .
those born in 1914 are 92 years old and some are still alive.. i guess that no one lived over 120 years since the flood.. how "old" is the oldest person who lived in your family?
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PrimateDave
According to these web sites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment and http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/oldest.html
the oldest verifiably recorded person was Jeanne Calment who lived 122 years and 164 days. She was born February 21,1875 and died August 4,1997.
The oldest person in the Bible was Methuselah, who managed to hang on to the exterior of the Noachian Ark during the last year of his life! (187+182+599=968 years to flood; Methuselah lived to 969!)
My mother's mother lived to be 91 years of age and died in May, 2005, in her bed at home asleep.
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8
JW's book "Let your Kingdom come"(1981) argues against history and 586/607
by booker-t ini was given the book "let your kingdom come" by the jw's the other day that showed me why the jw's and wts are right about 607. in the appendix they bring up that historians argue against the 607 date but why jw's are right due to the bible and unreliable tablets.
i was so confused after reading the appendix in the let your kingdom come book that i actually had a "headache" and put the book down.
the jw's elder wants to come over and study this appendix with me trying to prove the 607 date is right.
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PrimateDave
I have yet to read VM44's reply to you, which I'm sure is quite comprehensive, but here is the jist of what was posted on another thread recently that proves 607BCE wrong -straight from the Society's own library and quite simple to boot!
Insight on the Scriptures, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in volume 1 on page 425 under "Chaldea" has a complete list of the Babylonian kings from Nabopolassar to Balshazzar:
"Particularly was this domination manifest during the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E. when Nabopolassar, a native of Chaldea, and his successors, Nebuchadnezzar II, Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk), Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, and Belshazzar, ruled the Third World Power, Babylon."
Insight on the Scriptures, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in volume 2 on page 480 under "Nebuchadnezzar" tells us that he ruled as king for 43 years:
“Second ruler of the Neo-Babylonian Empire; son of Nabopolassar and father of Awil-Marduk (Evil-merodach), who succeeded him to the throne. Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years...”
In an article entitled "The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived" on page 29 in the January 1,1965, issue, The Watchtower magazine lists the regnal years of Nebuchadnezzar II's successors from Evil-Merodach to Nabonidus who was ruler of Babylon when Cyrus conquered it in 539 B.C.:
“Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.”
*** it-2 p. 457 Nabonidus ***
NABONIDUS (Nab?o?ni´dus) [from Babylonian meaning "Nebo [a Babylonian god] Is Exalted"].
Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.).
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Let's summarize (remember we have to go backwards starting in 539 B.C. with Nabonidus):
Nabonidus ruled Babylon for 17 years until it fell in 539 B.C. to Cyrus.
Labashi-Marduk ruled for 9 months.
Neriglissar ruled for 4 years.
Evil-Merodach ruled for 2 years.
Nebuchadnezzer ruled for 43 years.
17 years + 9 months + 4 years + 2 years + 43 years = 66 to 67 years.
Starting at 539 B.C. and going back 66/67 years we arrive at 605/606 B.C. for the start of the reign of Nebuchadnezzer.
2nd Kings 25:8-10 tells us that Jerusalem was destroyed in the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzer's reign, so if we go forward 19 years from 605/606 B.C. we will have the approximate years of the destruction of Jerusalem.
Nineteen years after 605/606 B.C. brings us to 586/587 B.C. which agrees with all secular evidence.
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That's it! It is so simple that I wonder why the Watchtower Society can't admit to seeing it!
I'm sorry that I don't remember the original poster of the above material in order to give him/her credit.
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11
I want a Bible
by PrimateDave ini want a bible that hasn't been written by or for 'apologists'.
i want a bible written in english that correctly translates 'yhwh' as 'yahve' or 'yahweh' and 'elohim' as 'gods' instead of 'god'.
a recent bit of study has shown that many modern english bibles commit pious fraud by translating words like 'asherah'(idol used in sex worship by the patriarchs) as 'grove' or 'tree' in order to cover up the true roots of ancient 'hebrew' worship.
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PrimateDave
I want a Bible that hasn't been written by or for 'apologists'. I want a Bible written in English that correctly translates 'YHWH' as 'Yahve' or 'Yahweh' and 'elohim' as 'gods' instead of 'god'. A recent bit of study has shown that many modern English Bibles commit pious fraud by translating words like 'asherah'(idol used in sex worship by the patriarchs) as 'grove' or 'tree' in order to cover up the true roots of ancient 'Hebrew' worship. And, it would be nice if the translation indicated the various authors of the verses in the core writings (J, E, Dtr1, Dtr2, P, etc.).
Anyway, maybe there isn't any translation out there yet that doesn't in some way try to fit what has actually been written into preconcieved notions, but is there any translation in print that comes close?
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15
I just faxed my DA letter
by hallelujah inwatch tower bible and tract society .
letter of disassociation .
dear sirs .
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PrimateDave
Hi Hallelujah,
I don't know if you check your post history, but I do. I am really enjoying reading this book. I downloaded all the chapters and saved them. It is truly an eye opener!
And I can see just how much 'translator's fraud' exists even in the New World Translation. For instance, in Genesis in the NWT, Abraham 'planted a tamarisk tree'(?!). Seems a strange thing to report in the 'sacred' writings. Well, imagine how I laughed when I learned that the original language should read that he 'erected an asherah', and that an asherah was none other than a sacred pole used in sex worship. Such pious fraud to cover over the phallic idolatrous practices of all the Hebrews up til the time of the exile is still just a fraud.
The post exilic reform may have done away with all of the previous practices and attempted to cover them up by adding a detailed 'law', but we get still get to see what kind of a tribal god Yahveh is/was and what kind of religion he inspired or was inspired by. Ironic how much 'false religion' still exists within the so-called 'true religion'.
Dave -
15
I just faxed my DA letter
by hallelujah inwatch tower bible and tract society .
letter of disassociation .
dear sirs .
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PrimateDave
Well, I just Googled 'Joseph Wheless' and found his books on infidels.org. It should prove to be an interesting read. Thanks for pointing it out in this thread.
The last book I read about the Bible was Who Wrote the Bible by Richard E. Friedman. It has the benefit of being a scholarly and up to date consideration of the 'Documentary Theory' (aka Higher Criticism) of how the core of the Hebrew Bible came into existence. Naturally, the WTS and other Fundamentalists dislike and discount the 'Documentary Theory'. It is ironic because Mr. Friedman actually treats the Bible with respect and perhaps even admiration. He appeared to tackle his task with an open and inquisitive mind, something that thought control religions with pet doctrines and traditions certainly don't appreciate or encourage.
I congratulate you on your courage to DA yourself, something that I am not sure that I could do, at least not at this point. At the website Beyond Jehovah's Witnesses (http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/), maintained by Timothy Campell, there is a section on how to write a letter of disassociation - http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/waloda.htm as well as a sample letter of disassociation - http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/da.htm
I wish you the best of luck (seems strange to write that because as a JW, I was taught that the Devil is the god of Good Luck!), and once again thanks for the information on the book you read.
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16
Any RUNNERS out there?!?
by Kudra inbecause i love running and i am going to start training for the durango double.
it's in colorado (durango) on october 6 + 7. .
it is a 50k (~30 mi) trail run on saturday followed by a road marathon (26 mi) on sunday...
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PrimateDave
Yes! And I'm a barefoot runner, too. I love it.
It is great to feel the textures of different surfaces beneath my feet like sand, grass, and even asphalt. I have to be a bit more careful than shod runners, but I feel the benefits outweigh the risks. Besides the sensual aspect of actually touching the earth with sophisticated sensory organs (the soles of my feet), my bones, muscles, and tendons actually get stronger doing what they were designed/evolved to do.
Granted, it's not for everyone, but the next time you get blisters from those shoes, think about what they (your shoes) must be doing to the insides of your feet!
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17
Why jw's can't research UN, etc..
by carla init seems they can't research any of the scandals or misquotes, etc... not only because you may have to use apostate books or sites or even non apostate info but because the mere idea came from apostates.
how else you would you even think to look into the un, misquotes or any other of the numerous problems?
no need to confuse yourself with the truth.. still banging head against wall,.
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PrimateDave
Exactly! That is why, despite all the things that I have learned lately about the 'true' history of the WTS, I have refrained from telling anyone in the [B]org what I personally know.
The fact is that no one ever really accepts something until they are personally ready to hear or read it. If I attempt to 'criticize' the [B]org, then I am the one who comes under scrutiny by the local brothers or my family, and not the WTS.
When they are ready to hear it, then they will come here, but not before.
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Serious Conditioning/Brainwashing
by KW13 inthe witnesses we know are obviously brainwashed, but do you think we ever recover from what it did completely?
does every part of jw'ness leave us?.
i have a feeling that even if its not obvious, things from our personal insecurities to how we act and who we are is a result of the org, yes even if your the rebellious type cos then your just running away .
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PrimateDave
I have now gone without a meeting for a week and a half. Just yesterday, while walking around on lunch break, I stepped into a Catholic Church. There were no services going on. I have no desire to become a Catholic. I just wanted to sit down and look. So, I sat in one of the wooden pews on the front row and looked at the stained glass, the altar, the occasional person coming or going or praying. And, I felt okay. It was no big deal.
Then, later, my boss sneazed, and I didn't say "bless you".
I guess, it's going to be the little things that stick longer than the big conscious decisions.
Dave