Of all the literature, the KM is the most worthless. The Service Meeting was THE WORST meeting of the week. Absolutely nothing new was ever presented, unless you count the 'local needs' part. There were also always some brothers who would never finish the meeting on time. That was especially bad when I had to wake up very early the next morning for work. SO Glad I don't go anymore! And they can keep their silly KMs. Dave
PrimateDave
JoinedPosts by PrimateDave
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28
Why no Kingdom Ministries???
by mama1119 inwhen i was disfellowshipped, the elders told me i could have copies of the watchtower and awake and any publications for bookstudy etc, but could not have a kingdom ministry...does anyone know why that rule???
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Things we were persuaded to believe
by iamfreenow inlinda and i were just chatting about some of the more odd beliefs of jws, and how we tended to accept them despite not totally understanding them.
the jws have a tendency to pick incidents from the scriptures and look for a modern - day application, priding themselves on being the only ones who can truly understand what these things mean for todays' world.
there are severa that i had trouble getting my head around, but gullibly accepted the society's take on them.. for example, i always had problems accepting or even understanding the jw interpretation of the 7 trumpet balasts of revelation, which they said were fulfilled by 7 conventions held between 1922 and 1928. the wtbs was an insignificant religion then compared to the more mainstream churches, and isn't all that significant now in terms of membership, and i just couldn't see why a seemingly - significant event in the bible would find it's fulfillment in a series of conventions that the majority of humanity wouldn't even be aware were taking place.
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PrimateDave
The whole King of the North/South crap. I was at the book study earlier this year and remember thinking that there is no way that anyone could take their explanation in the Daniel book seriously. When I later downloaded a December, 1924 Golden Age, I discovered that they then believed that the ships of Kittim of "Daniel 11:29-45 refers to Napoleon and his career" instead of the time of WW I. They went on to say: "Admiral Nelson defeated the French squadron in Aboukir Bay, August, 1798, 'at the time appointed'; and this defeat so grieved Napoleon that he shortly afterward returned to France, as foretold. No historian has better delineated Napoleon than did Daniel in verses 36-45."
Of course, they were making it all up as they went all along. No inspiration. No special hot-line to God. Just religious fiction.
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Name the Books That Impacted You The Most.
by XJW4EVR inanything by raymond franz is a given.. 1984. siddartha.
lord of the flies.
grapes of wrath.
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PrimateDave
As a child/youth:
The pink Paradise Lost book that my mother studied with me before I could even read.
Lord of the Flies when I was 12.
Watership Down by Richard Adams. A must read!
Anything and everything to do with astronomy: books about stars, planets, galaxies. I can't remember anything specific.
Fatu Hiva by Thor Heyerdahl. Thor and his first wife try to escape civilization in the Marquesas Islands.
In more recent years:
The Joy of Uncircumcising!: Exploring Circumcision : History, Myths, Psychology, Restoration, Sexual Pleasure, and Human Rights by Jim Bigelow.
The Final Empire by William H. Kotke. Rise and fall of empire cultures based on agriculture and their effects on earth's ecology.
The Long Emergency by James Kunstler. What could happen in the 21st century.
What Uncle Sam Really Wants by Noam Chomsky. America's record on terrorism speaks for itself.
In the past few months:
Crisis of Conscience helped me to see how the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses really works.
Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Friedmann helped me to understand Documentary Hypothesis.
Is It God's Word? by Joseph Wheless helped me to see beyond a doubt in my mind that the Bible is NOT the word of god.
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13
Time to find out My Purpose
by lisavegas420 ini mentioned on here several months ago, mailed in an order for the book, "what does the bible really teach?
" i also ordered a book with the same title from united church of god...oh and a bible from the mormans, and some other religious teaching guides from different religions.. .
it took over two months, but the wt version of "what does the bible really teach?
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PrimateDave
Your Purpose:
*** bh chap. 3 p. 31 par. 9 What Is God’s Purpose for the Earth? ***
9 Jehovah’s perfect sense of justice would not allow him to put the rebels to death right away. He decided that time was needed to answer Satan’s challenge in a satisfying way and to prove that the Devil is a liar. So God determined that he would permit humans to rule themselves for some time under Satan’s influence. Why Jehovah did that and why he has allowed so much time to pass before settling these issues will be discussed in Chapter 11 of this book. Now, though, it is good to think about this: Were Adam and Eve right to believe Satan, who had never done anything good for them? Was it right for them to believe that Jehovah, who had given them everything they had, is a cruel liar? What would you have done?
Yes, chapter 3 is the whole Adam, Eve, Jehovah, and Satan 6ull$h1t. Basically, God wants to look good for his 'angels' so that not too many of them go off and party with ol Lucifer. So, to keep the ranks in line, he lets billions of innocent humans suffer and die needlessly to satisfy some obscure sense of justice until he can get his only 'son' to go down and get murdered temporarily to show that it is possible to be resurrected only there is like no visible proof that anyone has ever been 'resurrected' but we have a 'sign' of his presence that Armageddon is just around the corner... (take a deep breath) Did I leave anything out?
Is God all knowing? Is He not all powerful? Well, since God LET Eve and then Adam eat the fruit, then it is HIS fault for being such a bad ruler. He should have KNOWN that Satan was going to deceive the woman ahead of time. God acts like a FOUR year old child throwing a tantrum. OBEY ME or else...
"Was it right for them to believe that Jehovah, who had given them everything they had, is a cruel liar?" - Well, Jehovah was cruel. He threw them out of their home, decided to torture the woman with unnecessary birth pains, and then let them die, all for a piece of fruit. So much for divine justice.
"What would you have done?" - Hypothetically, first do no harm. Realistically, it's just a myth. No Jehovah, no Satan, no Adam, no Eve. You've just got one life to live, so why spend it going door to door or at the meetings. Wishing for everlasting life on a paradise earth won't make it happen. At least, that's what I would say.
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What's Your Opinion Of Cops Making Roadblocks Just 2 See If Someone's Drunk
by minimus inare you for it or against it?
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PrimateDave
Ambivalent. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Freedom entails responsibility. On the other hand, less government is better government. And, the last time I checked citizens are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Citizens should not give up one iota of their rights to the government for any reason what so ever. Sobriety checks should be regulated and monitored by independent observers to prevent abuses.
Driving drunk is a despicable act. Frankly, it boggles the mind that there are still people out there who don't get it:
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!
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The October Awake on Creation/Evolution!
by Gill ini don't know if parts of this mag have been discussed.
i've been reading it slowly, and though evolution/creation is not an argument i want to get in to (each to his own) there are a few points that i'm going to bring out in the next week or so that 'irritated me'.. does science contradict the genesis account?.
page 19 subheading 'creations appear gradually'.
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PrimateDave
I read through this magazine also. The biggest irritation to me was how they dogmatically insist that the 'days' weren't literal 24hr days but figurative days lasting unspecified aeons. The fact that the writer meant exactly what he said by including 'morning' and 'evening' is ignored. It can't be the word of god if you constantly have to re-explain what it is 'supposed' to mean every time reality proves the old explanation wrong. When the "TRUTH" has to constantly undergo revision, it isn't really truth, is it? But, to admit the nature of such "Truth" is to deny themselves authority, and that is something they never want to do.
Dave -
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evolution awake
by DannyBloem ini went to kingdom hall today and they had the latest awake for me about evolution.. i guess my kingdom hall is a bit late maybe as i have seen others which had this awake already.
on the first hand it wasn't that bad as i had expected it.
not as bad as the latest creation book anyway.. is there any review done on the artikels here?.
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PrimateDave
Go over to the Talk Origins website and look through the arguments for and against evolution and creationism. You will soon see that the WTS doesn't come up with anything on its own but borrows heavily from arguments made previously by all the different creationists of 'Christendom'. Try to see who is forcing square pegs into round holes and you will see who is lying.
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Is this new Light?
by sandy inor just something i never really knew?
today at the kh my brother gave the pt.
he said that while jesus was praying to god just before his arrest he was praying that he die in a different situation.
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PrimateDave
No, it is not new light:
*** gt chap. 117 Agony in the Garden *** (Greatest Man Book 1991)
Going a little way forward, Jesus drops to the ground and with his face to the ground begins earnestly praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.” What does he mean? Why is he “deeply grieved, even to death”? Is he backing down from his decision to die and provide the ransom?
Not at all! Jesus is not appealing to be spared from death. Even the thought of avoiding a sacrificial death, once suggested by Peter, is repugnant to him. Rather, he is in agony because he fears that the way he will soon die—as a despicable criminal—will bring reproach upon his Father’s name. He now senses that in a few hours he is going to be impaled upon a stake as the worst kind of person—a blasphemer against God! This is what sorely troubles him.
One of the best things you can do is get the WT Library on CD ROM and install it on your computer. I've got the 2005 edition.
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PrimateDave
You silly 'poztates'! Don't you know you have to read the BIBLE to get the answer?? ;)
(Genesis 7:17-8:14) 17 And the deluge went on for forty days upon the earth, and the waters kept increasing and began carrying the ark and it was floating high above the earth. 18 And the waters became overwhelming and kept increasing greatly upon the earth, but the ark kept going on the surface of the waters. 19 And the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that were under the whole heavens came to be covered. 20 Up to fifteen cubits the waters overwhelmed them and the mountains became covered. 21 So all flesh that was moving upon the earth expired, among the flying creatures and among the domestic animals and among the wild beasts and among all the swarms that were swarming upon the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died. 23 Thus he wiped out every existing thing that was on the surface of the ground, from man to beast, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, and they were wiped off the earth; and only Noah and those who were with him in the ark kept on surviving. 24 And the waters continued overwhelming the earth a hundred and fifty days. 8 After that God remembered Noah and every wild beast and every domestic animal that was with him in the ark, and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters began to subside. 2 And the springs of the watery deep and the floodgates of the heavens became stopped up, and so the downpour from the heavens was restrained. 3 And the waters began receding from off the earth, progressively receding; and at the end of a hundred and fifty days the waters were lacking. 4 And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar´a·rat. 5 And the waters kept on progressively lessening until the tenth month. In the tenth month, on the first of the month, the tops of the mountains appeared. 6 So it occurred that at the end of forty days Noah proceeded to open the window of the ark that he had made. 7 After that he sent out a raven, and it continued flying outdoors, going and returning, until the waters dried off the earth. 8 Later he sent out from him a dove to see whether the waters had abated from the surface of the ground. 9 And the dove did not find any resting-place for the sole of its foot, and so it returned to him into the ark because the waters were yet upon the surface of the whole earth. At that he put his hand out and took it and brought it to himself inside the ark. 10 And he went on waiting still another seven days, and once again he sent out the dove from the ark. 11 Later on the dove came to him about the time of evening and, look! there was an olive leaf freshly plucked in its bill, and so Noah got to know that the waters had abated from the earth. 12 And he went on waiting still another seven days. Then he sent out the dove, but it did not come back again to him anymore. 13 Now in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, it came about that the waters had drained from off the earth; and Noah proceeded to remove the covering of the ark and to look, and here the surface of the ground had drained dry. 14 And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth had dried off.
So, anyone can see that the BIBLE says GOD PASSED GAS and the water began to dry up! Either that or he had some really bad breath! Well, that's all anyone ever needs to know about the flood. Anything more is DANGEROUS SPECULATION that will be punished by Yahveh!
Dave (with smiles) -
4
Beware of higher criticism
by under_believer inanybody notice how the society decries the study of higher criticism (literary criticism of the bible) and yet must resort to it themselves in the all scriptures inspired book, where they are forced to admit that the first three gospels share a common source or are based on one another?
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double standards are awesome.
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PrimateDave
I found a series of articles at http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/biblewho1.htm that give an interesting look at the history of the Israelites from the point of view of modern archeology. It contains a pretty good summary of the Documentary Hypothesis as presented by Richard Friedmann's book Who Wrote the Bible?
Here is a quote from the first page:
"One theologian wrote about the Bible:
'The Bible is an Extraordinary Book: A book which claims infallibility; which aspires to absolute authority over mind and body; which demands unconditional surrender to all its pretensions upon penalty of eternal damnation, is an extraordinary book and should, therefore, be subjected to extraordinary tests. But it isn't. Neither Christian priests nor Jewish rabbis approve of applying to the bible the same tests by which other books are tried. Why? Because it will help the bible? It can not be that. Because it might hurt the bible? We can think of no other reason. The Truth is that The Bible is: A Collection of Writings of Unknown Date and Authorship Rendered into English From Supposed Copies of Supposed Originals Unfortunately Lost.'
"So wrote M. M. Mangasarian, former Congregationalist and Presbyterian Minister, who studied at Princeton Theological Seminary, and very early in his life renounced his Christian affiliation and pursued a remarkable career as a proponent of Free Thought."
Food for thought!
Dave