Posts by PrimateDave

19

Is the bible really the good book ( broad scope analysis of Its content )

by Handsome Dan in

i came across this web site awhile back and i thought it had some thought provoking information.

it is obviously written by a group of atheists.

who wanted to bring to light what all christian faiths base their religious beliefs on and probablly why some devout christians eventually turn to atheism.. if you read their analysis of what the bible says with an open mind it can be very thought provoking material.. after reading most of the sub topics they have listed, i found most of the reading to be both mind expanding and humorous for a lot of it, your mileage may vary.

PrimateDave

"I read the Bible in the original lanugages." - Wafe

I have a JPS Tanakh (Jewish Bible). It is written in Modern English and Modern Hebrew. In no way is the Hebrew portion the same as the original language. The original texts don't exist anymore. The oldest texts available are copies that can date hundreds of years from the time that the originals may have been written. There is evidence of widespread redaction in the texts that we have received through the filter of history.

What we have are copies of copies. Translations of translations. With all due respect, there is no way anyone can "read the Bible in the original language."

This is not to say that a website like evilbible.com is useless. We certainly have enough of the stories contained within the Bible's pages to base a modern cultural judgment on the contents of this "holy" book. To that end I recommend _Is_It_God's_Word?_ by Joseph Wheless. http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/is_it_gods_word/

A sampling of its topics:

IS IT GOD'S WORD?

TABLE OF CONTENTS OF SUBHEADINGS

FOREWORD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
CONTENTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
THE GENESIS OF CHRISTIANITY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
THE RISE OF CHRISTIANITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
THE NEW AND THE OLDER RELIGIONS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
PAGAN TOLERANCE AND CHRISTIAN INTOLERANCE. . . . . . . . . . 13
THE DEADLY SANCTIONS OF RELIGION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
"LIKE KING LIKE PEOPLE". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
"NOT DEAD BUT SLEEPETH". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
FAITH FLOURISHED ON IGNORANCE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19
"CHRISTIAN CIVILIZATION" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
THE "CHRISTIAN" PEOPLES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22

A SKETCH OF HEBREW SCRIPTURES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24
THE BIBLE A COLLECTION OF "LITTLE BOOKS" . . . . . . . . . . 24
THE LANGUAGE OF THE BOOKS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24
THE BIBLE LANGUAGE -- HEBREW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26
THE NAME OF THE HEBREW TRIBAL GOD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
THE BIBLE ALL COPIES OF COPIES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28
AND TRANSLATIONS OF TRANSLATIONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
WHEN THE BOOKS WERE WRITTEN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
SOME LIGHTS ON BIBLE CHRONOLOGY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
SOME SIDELIGHTS ON MOSES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31
THE "FIVE BOOKS OF MOSES". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33
THE BIBLE "PREFACE". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34
SOME "POST-MOSAICA". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35
OTHER LATE-WRITTEN BOOKS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38
"YAHVEH" AND "ELOHIM". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39
A RARENTHESIS OF EXPLANATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
OTHER "SOURCES" OF SCRIPTURE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41
DUPLICATIONS OF INSPIRATION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42
INSPIRATION AND CONTRADICTION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43
THE LAWS AND TEST OF TRUTH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44
FATAL CONTRADICTIONS OF REVELATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45
The Creation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45
THE "DAYS" AND MATTER OF CREATION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48
SOME SIGNIFICANT MISTRANSLATIONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49
"ADAM" MEANS ONLY "MAN". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
"LIVING CREATURES" AND "LIVING SOUL" . . . . . . . . . . . . 51
THE "FLOOD" CONTRADICTIONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52
THE TOWER OF BAB-EL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54
JACOB'S LADDER, AND BETH-EL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56
JACOB'S BARGAINING VOW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57
SUNDRY OTHER CONTRADICTIONS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57

THE PATRIARCHS AND THE COVENANTS OF YAHVEH . . . . . . . . . 60
THE SPLENDID CIVILIZATION OF ABRAM'S TIME. . . . . . . . . . 60
THE "PROMISE" TO ABRAHAM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62
THE EGYPTIAN SLAVERY PROVISO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63
THE PROMISE OF ISAAC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64
ISAAC'S DUBIOUS PATERNITY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65
THE PROMISE RENEWED To ISAAC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65
THE PROMISE RENEWED TO JACOB . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
THE MIGRATION TO EGYPT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
AMAZING MULTIPLYING. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66

THE "SOJOURN" IN EGYPT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67
THE "FOUR GENERATIONS" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68
THE "INEFFABLE NAME" REVEALED. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69
A "PIOUS FRAUD" OF TRANSLATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
A CURIOUS MUDDLING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72
WHY THIS "PIOUS" FRAUD?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73
A PECULIAR TEST OF PROPHECY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
SOME ASSURANCES OF SUCCESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
CONJURING CONTESTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75
THE FEARFUL AND WONDERFUL "PLAGUES OF EGYPT" . . . . . . . . 76

THE WONDERS OF THE EXODUS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79
"IN THE FOURTH GENERATION" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79
THE HOSTS OF THE LORD OF HOSTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80
SOME PREGNANT FIGURES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80
THE AMAZING PASSOVER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82
THE MARCHING ORDERS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 83
THE HOSTS ON THE MARCH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84
THE HOSTS AFRAID OF WAR. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 85
THE RED SEA MASSACRE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 85
THE CHILDREN WAIL FOR WATER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 86
SMITING THE ROCK FOR WATER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 86
FOOD RIOTS -- HEAVENLY MANNA AND QUAILS. . . . . . . . . . . 87
MIRACLE AND MATHEMATICS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 89
THE MOSES FAMILY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90
WHO PROPOSED THE JUDGES OF ISRAEL? . . . . . . . . . . . . . 91
THE TENTS OF ISRAEL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 92
THE GREAT ENCAMPMENTS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 93
SOME FEATURES OF CAMP-LIFE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94
THE "BURNING QUESTION" OF FUEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 95

THE FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96
THE MISTAKE ABOUT THE PRIESTS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 97
THE TWO CENSUSES IN THE WILDERNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . 97
SOME CENSUS ODDITIES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98
THE LEVITES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 99
THE MOTHERS OF ISRAEL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 99
THE PUZZLE OF "SAME" OR "NOT SAME" . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100
THE TABERNACLE AND ITS ACTIVITIES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 102
SACRIFICES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 103
MORE OF THE PRIESTS AND LEVITES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 105
SOME JAHVISTIC MURDERINGS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106
THE RAPE OF MIDIAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 107
THE WONDERFUL LAST DAYS OF MOSES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 109
MOURNING FOR AARON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 109
WAR WITH CANAAN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 109
TEN ENCAMPMENTS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
WAR WITH AMORITES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
WAR WITH JAAZER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
WAR WITH BASHAN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
THE EPISODE OF BALAAM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 111
SPORTING WITH MOAB . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 112
CENSUS TAKING. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113
EXPEDITION TO MIDIAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113
"MOPPING UP" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113

THE "TEN COMMANDMENTS" AND THE "LAW" . . . . . . . . . . . . 115
DIVERGENT DECALOGUES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115

THE TABLES OF STONE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117
THE FIFTH MOUNTAIN TRIP. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 118
THE FIRST TABLES OF STONE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 119
THE INCIDENT OF THE GOLDEN CALF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 119
THE SECOND TABLES OF STONE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 121
THE ACTUAL "TEN WORDS" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 121
THE LAW OF THE DECALOGUE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 122
LAWS OF SLAVERY AND MURDER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 122
CANNIBALISM AND HUMAN SACRIFICES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 123
OTHER DIVINE MOSAIC LAWS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 125
MOSES NOT THE "LAW-GIVER". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128
THE "LAW" OF LATE PRIESTLY ORIGIN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128
THE "FINDING" OF THE LAW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 129
THE LAW AND THE REFORMS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130
POSITIVE PROOFS AGAINST MOSES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 131
BIBLE HISTORY DISPROVES THE "LAW OF MOSES" . . . . . . . . . 132

THE "CONQUEST" OF THE PROMISED LAND. . . . . . . . . . . . . 136
BUT NOT CONQUERED. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 141
THE ABJECT SUBJECTION OF ISRAEL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 142

THE HEBREW HEATHEN RELIGION. SEX WORSHIP AND
IDOLS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145
PHALLISM, OR SEX-WORSHIP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145
THE PRIMITIVE TRINITY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146
PHALLIC EMBLEMS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 147
THE PATRIARCHAL PHALLIC IDOLATRY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 148
THE PHALLIC SYMBOLS OF SCRIPTURE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 148
THE "PILLARS" OR MAZZEBAHS OF YAHVEH . . . . . . . . . . . . 148
THIS "GROVES" OR ASHERAHS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150
YAHVEH'S PHALLIC EPHODS AND TERAPHIM . . . . . . . . . . . . 151
THE SACRED DICE OF YAHVEH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 153
OTHER HEATHEN RITES OF YAHVEH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 154
THE TEMPLE AN IDOL HOUSE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 156
THE TEMPLE HARLOTS OF YAHVEH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 157
PHALLUS HOMAGE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 158
SANCTITY OF THE PHALLUS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 159
THE SUPERSTITION OF WITCHCRAFT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 159
THE BIBLE A GREAT "DREAM BOOK" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 160

THE PAGAN GOD -- AND GODS -- OF ISRAEL . . . . . . . . . . . 162
PAGAN ORIGINS OF THE HEBREWS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 162
THE HEBREWS WERE HEATHENS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 164
"EL" -- "BEL" AND "BAAL" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165
"BAAL" IS "LORD" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165
YAHVEH IS BAAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 166
HA-ELOHIM YISHRAEL -- THE GODS OF ISRAEL . . . . . . . . . . 167
THE ORIGINAL HEBREW WORDS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 167
"THE GODS CREATED" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 168
PLURALITY OF GODS BETRAYED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 171
Plural Nouns and Plural Verbs. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 171
The "Plural of Dignity". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 172
YAHVEH -- "E PLURIBUS UNUM". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 173
Many "Other Gods" are Acknowledged . . . . . . . . . . . . . 173
The God of Israel and the Gods of the Nations. . . . . . . . 175
PAGAN BIBLE NAMES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 178

YAHVEH -- THE "TERRIBLE GOD" OF ISRAEL . . . . . . . . . . . 179
YAHVEH AS A SUPERMAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179
EX NIHIL NIHIL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 182
YAHVEH A LOCAL DEITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 183
YAHVEH A KING ELOHIM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 183
YAHVEH AS A WAR-GOD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 184
YAHVEH, WAR-GOD OF ISRAEL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 184
PERSONAL TRAITS OF YAHVEH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 185
YAHVEH A DEITY OF TERROR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 186
A GOD OF BLOODY MURDER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 187
YAHVEH THE VENGEFUL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 188
THE CHANGEFUL YAHVEH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 189
YAHVEH REPENTANT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 190
THE FATHER OF LIES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 191
THE LUSTS OF YAHVEH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 192
YAHVEH THE WHITE-SLAVER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 192
L'ENVOI. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 193

THE HOLY PRIESTS AND PROPHETS OF YAHVEH. . . . . . . . . . . 195
PRIESTS BEFORE MOSES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 195
A "KINGDOM OF PRIESTS" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 196
REVELATION OF PRIESTLY MONOPOLY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 196
THE PRIESTLY PERQUISITES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 199
THE HOLY FAKIR PROPHETS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200
THE FRENZIED PROPHETS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 201
THE DIVINE TEST OF PROPHECY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 202
SAMUEL, DEAN OF THE PROFESSION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 203
ELIJAH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 204
ELISHA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 205
ISAIAH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 205
JEREMIAH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 207
EZEKIEL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 207
DANIEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208
YAHVEH'S HOWLING DERVISHES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 209
PROPHETIC EROTICISM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 209
PROPHETIC LYING FACTIONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 211
CONFESSIONS OF THE PROPHETS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 213
THE PROPAGANDISTS OF CHRISTIANITY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 214

BIBLE THEOLOGY AND MODERN TRUTH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 216
WITCHCRAFT AND INSPIRATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 225
ANCIENT FAITH YET FULLY VALID. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 228

THE "PROPHECIES" OF JESUS CHRIST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 231
THE GOSPEL RECORDS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 232
The Miraculous "Virgin Birth" of Jesus . . . . . . . . . . . 234
"VIRGIN" OR "YOUNG WOMAN". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 235
THE "SIGN" OF A FALSE PROPHECY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 236
Where the King was Born. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 238
"Out of Egypt" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 239
"Out-Hereding" Herod . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
The "Nazarne". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 241
The Great Light. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 241
He Bore Our Infirmities. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 242
The "Bruised Reed" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 243
"The King Cometh". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 244
What is this One?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 245

The "Potter's Field" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 246
JUDAS HANGED HIMSELF?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 247
Parting His Garments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 248
MARK'S APPEALS TO PROPHECY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 249
To "Prepare the Way" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 249
"Numbered among Transgressors" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250
LUKE CITES PROPHECY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 251
"GENEALOGIES" OF JESUS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 252
JOHN APPEALS TO PROPHECY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 253
A Prophecy Puzzle. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 253
"For Moses Wrote of Me" (Jesus). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 254
Who Hath Believed? And Why Not?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 255
A Cooking Lesson as "Prophecy" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 256

THE INSPIRED "HARMONY OF THE GOSPELS". . . . . . . . . . . . 259
OF THE LIFE OF JESUS CHRIST. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 259
THE DATELESS NAZARENE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 260
THE "BLESSED NAME" OF JESUS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 262
GENEALOGIES OF JESUS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 263
VIRGIN BIRTH OF JESUS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 266
THE STAR OF BETHLEHEM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
THE SHEPHERD CHOIR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 272
THE NOCTURNAL FLIGHT TO EGYPT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 272
THE "MASSACRE OF THE INNOCENTS". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 275
JOHN AND THE BAPTISM OF JESUS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 275
THE TEMPTATION IN THE WILDERNESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 278
THE APOSTLES CHOSEN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 279
"THE TWELVE" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 281
APOSTOLIC GREED AND STRIFE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 282
OTHER APOSTOLIC TANGLES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 284
THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT -- OR THE PLAN . . . . . . . . . . . 284
THIS LORD'S PRAYER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 285
CHRIST ANOINTED. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 285
JESUS -- KING OF THE JEWS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 286
POT-POURRI OF INSPIRED INHARMONIES . . . . . . . . . . . . . 288
ECCE HOMO! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 296
SECRECY ENJOINED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 302
SUPERSTITIONS OF JESUS CHRIST. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 303
THE "SECOND COMING" OF CHRIST. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 304

MORE "HARMONY OF THE GOSPELS". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 306
THE CLOSING SCENES OF THE DRAMA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 306
THE LAST SUPPER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 306
THE "LORD'S SUPPER" OR EUCHARIST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 307
THE BETRAYAL AND ARREST. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 309
PETER'S DENIAL OF JESUS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 312
THE TRIAL OF JESUS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 315
THE CRUCIFIXION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 317
BEARING THE CROSS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 317
WHEN WAS IT? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 317
THE INSCRIPTION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 318
THE WITNESSES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 319
THE INCIDENTS AT THE CRUCIFIXION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 320
THE LAST WORDS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 322
THE WONDERS AT DEATH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 322
THE BURIAL SCENE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 323
THE RESURRECTION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 326

BREAKING THE RESURRECTION NEWS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 329
POST-RESURRECTION APPEARANCES OF JESUS . . . . . . . . . . . 330
THE FIRST APPEARANCE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 330
THE SECOND APPEARANCE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 331
THIRD APPEARANCE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 332
FOURTH APPEARANCE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 333
SUNDAY OTHER APPEARANCES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 333
THE ASCENSION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 335
NOBODY BELIEVED THE "IDLE TALES" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 336
A PROPHET WITHOUT HONOR. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 337

THE SACRED DOCTRINES OF CHRISTIANITY . . . . . . . . . . . . 339
THE FORMULA OF FAITH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 340
LYING AND FRAUD ADMITTED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 340
REDEMPTION FROM THE CURSE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 341
FREE FOR ALL OR LIMITED. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 342
"SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 343
BELIEVE AND BE SAVED -- OR STAY DAMNED . . . . . . . . . . . 344
REPENTANCE AS A CONDITION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 344
ELECTED OR ECLECTIC? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 345
FAITH OR WORKS?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 347
LAW OR NOT LAW?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 349
CIRCUMCISION OR UNCIRCUMCISION?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 351
BAPTISM AND BACKSLIDING. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 351
FORGIVENESS OF SIN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 352
RESURRECTION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 353
THE FINAL JUDGMENT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 355
THE "SECOND COMING". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 356
DEVILOLOGY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 359
FIGHTING THE DEVILS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 363
THE PENALTIES OF UNBELIEF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 366
INTOLERANCE AND DESTRUCTION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 367
INSPIRED PRIESTLY PRESUMPTION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 370
AN INFAMOUS ACCUSATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 372
THE APOSTLES' VIEWS OF EACH OTHER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 373
KNOWLEDGE SCORNED -- IGNORANCE EXALTED . . . . . . . . . . . 374
CHILDISH FAITH FOR SALVATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 375
DAMNATION FOR UNBELIEF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 375
FATUOUS FANATICISM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 375
THE "PRINCE OF PEACE". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 376

THE CHRISTIAN "PLAN OF SALVATION". . . . . . . . . . . . . . 377
ORIGINAL SIN AND ETERNAL DAMNATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . 377
"Redemption from the Curse". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 377
THE REVELATION OF THE FALL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 378
THE "CURSE" IN EDEN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 378
THE SNAKE CURSE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 379
THE CURSE ON WOMAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 379
THE CURSE ON MAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380
THE "CURSE" INNOCUOUS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380
THE "CURSE" LIFTED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 382
THE RIDDLE OF THE SERPENT SEED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 382
A BIG CHANCE MISSED. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 383
DAMNATION A CHRISTIAN DOGMA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 384
PAUL THE APOSTLE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 384
THE "PLAN OF SALVATION". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 386
"REDEMPTION FROM THE CURSE". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 387
THE CURSE NOT 100% REDEEMED. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 388
REVELATIONS OF THE HEREAFTER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 390
HEAVEN, HELL, AND PURGATORY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 390
WHAT HEAVEN IS AND WHERE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 391
SO THIS IS HELL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 393
CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 395
A DAMNED PLACE IS HELL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 397
PURGATORY -- AND PAY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 398
CESSET SUPERSTITIO! AND THEN?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 406

This is a biased and sometimes inaccurate book. But, so is the Bible.

Dave

3

5000 year old Dominator System

by PrimateDave in

after listening to the interview found on this web page:.

http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/interviews/853.

i did some additional reading on the "dominator system".. .

PrimateDave

After listening to the interview found on this web page:

http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/interviews/853

I did some additional reading on the "Dominator System".

I found an interesting quote (from http://www.pcdf.org/Living_Economies/IV_Awakening.htm) that reads:

"The dominator model is based on top down control. It leads to a world of coercive hierarchy, competition, and violence. Every relationship is defined by who is on top and who is on the bottom; who gives orders and who takes orders. Be a winner or be a loser. Rule or be ruled. Kill or be killed. The dominator society has its own golden rule: “He who has the gold rules.” So “Go for the gold,” and be sure you get more of it than your neighbor, because “It’s a dog eat dog world.” In a dominator world, hierarchy legitimates itself with the promise to impose peace and security on an otherwise chaotic and dangerous world."

It seems to me that Jehovah's Witnesses live in and support a Dominator System which is fundamentally at odds with their stated goals of peace, unity, and love.

Any thoughts?

Dave

28

What will Jehovah's Witnesses do when they realize they've been lied to

by cultswatter in

i think there might be a mass revolt.

imagine a mob of 100,000 angry dubs in newyork smashing down wt 25 using telephone posts as battering rams.

then the looting and the destruction of every wt property in newyork and elsewhere.

PrimateDave

Being lied to is the equivalent of receiving "new light". Those who don't keep up with Jehovah's changing mind, er, I mean, Holy Spirit, are left behind.

"What will you do when Armageddon would comes and you find out you have been fighting against Jehovah?" - unbaptized

That's how most Witnesses see things. I see no major revolt on the horizon, just a lingering existence.

Dave

74

Science vs. Religion - Must We Choose Between Them?

by bavman in

i dare to say science and religion are two different animals.

they may try to explain similar things but in different ways.

i don't believe man will ever live without either religion or science nor would i want us too.

PrimateDave

No. That said, I have absolutely no use for fundamentalism or any other broadly collectivist religious endeavor.

Dave

9

Take the Bible POOP quiz.....

by kid-A in

i scored 80% !

and little toe said we atheists dont know anything about theology !!!!

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0505/biblepoopquiz.html.

PrimateDave

Questions definitely guaranteed NOT to be on any written/oral review for the Thursday night School!

Dave

7

EVOLUTION Tour at AMNH & Carl Sagan on God, NEW Book!

by Seeker4 in

below are links to a ny times video on the new human origins exhibit at the american museum of natural history, (the one i posted the link about that has been quite an active evolution thread!

) and below that a link to an article in the times on sagan's new book.

warning!

PrimateDave

Excellent video! I don't agree with the technophiles that robotics is our future though. Call me a Luddite! The true future of human evolution will continue to be biological, IMO.

Dave

92

Need some education on THEOLOGY? Start here! Evolutionists take note!

by LittleToe in

http://www.monergism.com/systematic.html.

http://www.rtrc.net/documents/wcf/hodge/wcftoc.htm.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.htmlhttp://www.lgmarshall.org/reformed/berkhof_summary.html.

PrimateDave

Okay, so I'm an "Evolutionist". I have questions.

Have the articles in those links been peer reviewed? Or, do they just represent the work of fringe researchers?

I noticed that they mentioned some disease called "sin" that seems to be either inherited and/or contagious. Have the Doctors of Theology come up with an antidote for this disease? Will it be available over-the-counter or by prescription only? Will my medical plan cover this kind of medication?

One of the references cited mentions a person named Eve. According to your researchers, she only lived some 6000 years ago. When I consulted the Wikipedia, I found this information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
According to that article, she lived some 140,000 years ago. Why the discrepancy?

Finally, I noticed that the Theologists have been attempting to get this god thing to appear for quite some time. Still, so far their laboratory experiments have failed to produce results. My question is: If they can't even get god to appear in a controlled laboratory setting, how can they possibly expect it to be a naturally occurring phenomenon?

Dave (tongue in cheek)

171

The vote is in: SCIENCE vs RELIGION......who won?

by Terry in

history has demonstrated:.

religion is following orders by implicitly trusting someone or something.. science asks questions.. religion purports to answer questions.. science seeks to disprove its own conclusions.. religion seeks to reinforce its own dogma.. science is error-correction toward adjusting for realities as they unfold.. religion internalizes against reality by mocking up a substitute.. science is the most recent development of the human mind.

technology proves science to be successful in advancing human progress.. religion disdains human progress and waits for the end.

PrimateDave

Neither. Humans are tool users. Knowledge, whether religious, philosophical, or scientific, is a tool for the mind. Surely, with the vast sea of information we have now, we can enjoy the best of both worlds, can't we?

Dave

178

Need Some Education On EVOLUTION? Start Here! Perry & Axal take note!

by Seeker4 in

perry started a thread on evolution/atheism, which from his very first post showed an incredible ignorance of evolution and natural selection.

axal's comments on the thread were just asinine - how all the atheists in his area were at the strip clubs fighting over women and fornicating!

i have to say that i live in a small town and have been here for half a century, and i couldn't name five people that i know here who are atheist.

PrimateDave

Hey tetra,

I know where you are coming from and agree with you on the "macro" evolution bit. However, you may agree that accepting "micro" evolution is a fall back position for many Creationists who insist that "God" made each animal according to its "kind" as per the Biblical account. So, for the sake of argument, to those people "macro" evolution IS "Evolution", whereas "micro" evolution is only variation within a species. The Talk Origins 29+ Evidences for Macro-Evolution attempts to address this line of thinking specifically.

Dave

178

Need Some Education On EVOLUTION? Start Here! Perry & Axal take note!

by Seeker4 in

perry started a thread on evolution/atheism, which from his very first post showed an incredible ignorance of evolution and natural selection.

axal's comments on the thread were just asinine - how all the atheists in his area were at the strip clubs fighting over women and fornicating!

i have to say that i live in a small town and have been here for half a century, and i couldn't name five people that i know here who are atheist.

PrimateDave

Hello, Emo

Try this link and decide for yourself: 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution
The Scientific Case for Common Descent

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

There is a huge amount of information. Some of it goes over my head. I'm just glad that there are web sites that have digested the vast and often dry scientific papers and texts on these subjects and put it all in a relatively easy to read format.

Until about a year ago I didn't have the courage to look at web sites like that. I tried to be a good JW, mostly. I was "born" a JW, if you know what I mean. I defended Creationism, JW style for most of my life. I loved to read the big blue Creation book that the WTS produced in the '80s. Years ago I even tried to defend Creationism on a message board. I had all the facts! I had the Watchtower literature and I had Michael Behe's Intelligent Design book, Darwin's Black Box. LOL!

Well, long story short, in the past few years I got the nagging sense that something was wrong with the Org. For that matter, there were some serious things that bugged me about the Bible, too. In the end, I decided that I had to know the truth, the real truth, or at least enough "truth" to make a decision about what I was doing with my life.

I decided that if the Bible was incorrect about some things, then the Witnesses were wrong. The two weakest points about the Bible in my opinion were the Creation account and the Flood of Noah. When I researched the Flood, I realized what an impossibility it would be for such an event to have happened. Then I took a closer look at the theory of Evolution and realized how little I had understood this impressive and comprehensive field of knowledge.

Sure, scientists do not know everything. That's why they look for evidence and perform experiments. And then they often wind up with more questions than they started with. All I ever got from the Witnesses was, "All the answers you need are in the Bible. If it doesn't fit the Bible, then it must be wrong."

Well, Anthropology, Astronomy, Biology, Ecology, Psychology, Sociology, and Zoology all disagree with the Bible to some extent or other. Why did God make the world one way and have His Book written a different way, I wondered.

I then read Timothy Campbell's website "Beyond Jehovah's Witnesses". I took his suggestion and read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz, and Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard E. Friedman. I learned quickly that the Witnesses were not the "truth", and that the Bible was not written like the Watchtower Society said it was.

On this message board I found out about books like Is It God's Word? by Joseph Wheless, and Biblical Nonsense by Dr. Jason Long. Read those books, and you'll never think about Jehovah the same way again, I promise! God of love, indeed!

It was a revelation over a period of a few months. I finally realized that I am not a "sinful" human being after all! I didn't need salvation! I didn't have to fear some unknowable god or his son or a devil or demons.

I had to give up a few cherished beliefs in the process... everlasting life on a paradise earth, a resurrection. I no longer have all the answers. I don't know what the future holds. I don't know what, if anything, happens for me after I die. In fact, sometimes reality just sucks. But there is no going back to the Matrix for me now.

And that is the short story of how I came to accept the theory of Evolution and became a-theistic [without god(s)].

Hey, God, it's me! Are you there? I want to know. In all seriousness.

Then I come on this board and I see so many others at different stages of development and awareness. There are those whose minds are still closed in many ways, and it is frustrating to read their comments because there I was, and there I could still be if not for the right information. Thanks.

Dave