Posts by Jringe01

21

whats it all about?

by andyg in

my mum used to be a jw, she was baptised after about 3 years and carried on for about another 2. she first started taking me to the meetings when i was about 8, and carried on week after week until she was disfellowshipped (she went a bit mad and left home, but that's by the by).

the point is im 21 now and trying to make sense of the stuff i was brought up with for 5 years.

if anyone could shed light on one or two things i'd be most grateful (and some of it i might have wrong anyway).. - before noah's flood, all animals were vegetarian.

Jringe01

Hi andyg..welcome.

I thought I would touch on this question "if God, in his infinite wisdom, created mankind to be perfect, why did they prove imperfect?"

Eve proved imperfect because she was decieved. perhaps God could have overlooked that but Adam choose to follow his wife. Apparently he had more love for her than his creator.

I am not convinced that they were "perfect" as we understand the term. Remember that they were the last of creation and thus new on the scene. I personally believe that perfection involves much more than living forever in perfect health. I feel it also involves a person's personality and that it's a stage/state of being that has to be achieved thru years of effort and to be the largest and most important component in the process of perfection.

I think that God can only get us started, he cannot make us perfect. it's something we have to attain.

53

Are "Apostates" jumping the gun with their info on the WT to make a case?

by booker-t in

i take some of the things apostates say with a "grain of salt" because many times i think they embellish the truth to make the wt look bad to make their case.

for example i have for years heard that the wt uses "satanic" images in their artwork but i have yet to see any proof of these accusations.

i have heard that jw's no longer practice "disfellowshipping" but my teenage niece was recently "disfellowshipped".

Jringe01

This relates to the thread where this line was written: Unlike the WT that likes to tell "unproven" stories and repeat unlikely, laughable stories at conventions and assemblies
This is done everywhere, especially in advertising "Florence K says she lost 35lbs in 3 weeks...". In telling such tales with no hard evidence JW's mearly mirror the world in which they live.

jringe: Nope. Uh-uh. Not having it.

You see, the WTS painted themselves into a corner a long time ago with that line of reasoning. They claim to be God's chosen people, bearing his name. Set apart from the world. Not partaking in the ways of the world. Better, if you will. Adhering to strict tenents of honesty. Guiding by God's Holy Spirit. Does the word "truth" ring a bell? Do you honestly think that the WTS would agree that they reflect the same standards of truthfulness as..........wait for it ...................... drumroll............... ...................................ADVERTISING!!!!!!??????

Nope. Try again.

This is my point: They are not as set apart as they claim. They mirror the world in which they live when they tell "unproven" stories and repeat unlikely, laughable stories at conventions and assemblies " as one poster put it.

Speaking of truth how do I know that "Florence K says she lost 35lbs in 3 weeks..." and how do I know that "Brother B had the following experience.." They are all unsubstaniated stories. They make for good reading/listening and good storytelling yes but without more evidence the teller/author could easily be exaggerating, unintentionally conveying a misunderstanding or outright lying.

A friend is trying to push me to adopt the Atkins Approach. I was reading the latest edition of Dr. Atkins book and he does the exact same thing. Mind you he is a doctor and can't reveal too much without violating doctor/patient confidentiality. However having said that, how do I know that all the testimonials he cites in his book are 100% accurate???

I don't! I cannot use those tales in any decision making because they are biased. They are only in support of the subject matter.

And as for "Do you honestly think that the WTS would agree that they reflect the same standards of truthfulness as...ADVERTISING!!!!!!??????" I don't really care what the WTS thinks. The fact is when anyone WTS or otherwise tells these stories how do you really know you are getting the whole complete and unabridged story??? And given some of the previous threads discussing the WTS failed prophesy's one could conclude that the WTS may be guilty of some of the same streaches of truth as advertisers, political propaganda etc. However i will only admit to the possibility of this for obvious reasons.

People live by belief. If you can get ahold of that belief you can get people to do anything (The Holocaust). By and large people are so stupid and gullible because they believe such stories (almost) without question. In fact I do believe there have been threads posted before discussing some of those stories that go around and that's why urban legends remain popular. In this JW's are no better or worse so to speak than anyone else on this planet.

(That's also why any credible Research firm that calls you for a survey at suppertime (I've may have called some of you in my time ) will not reveal who comissioned the study. If people knew then their answers would not be as honest because what they believe about the company would colour their replies. I have seen this before however given my arguement above you should not trust that assertion 100%. LOL )

53

Are "Apostates" jumping the gun with their info on the WT to make a case?

by booker-t in

i take some of the things apostates say with a "grain of salt" because many times i think they embellish the truth to make the wt look bad to make their case.

for example i have for years heard that the wt uses "satanic" images in their artwork but i have yet to see any proof of these accusations.

i have heard that jw's no longer practice "disfellowshipping" but my teenage niece was recently "disfellowshipped".

Jringe01

Slight bend in topic:

This relates to the thread where this line was written: Unlike the WT that likes to tell "unproven" stories and repeat unlikely, laughable stories at conventions and assemblies

This is done everywhere, especially in advertising "Florence K says she lost 35lbs in 3 weeks...". In telling such tales with no hard evidence JW's mearly mirror the world in which they live.

In fact I seem to recall a thread some time ago where a poster was quite upset to discover that an experience was related at the convention where he(or she) was baptized by an elder that had nothing to do with this person's comming into the truth and yet the way the story was told.

64

A Riddle - Somthing Mentioned in Genesis, but God did not create it!

by VM44 in

here is a riddle.

i am thinking of something that god did not create, but is mentioned in the book of genesis and also throughout the bible.. what could it be?.

--vm44.

Jringe01

Isn't it interesting that the Hebrew word for evil, Ra is also the name of the Egyptian Sun God? I'd almost be willing to bet money that there's a direct connection.

I do not believe that God directly created moral evil. However i do believe he has no choice but to allow it to exist.

I agree with discussions on previous threads that we do not have freedom of will. However we do have the freedom to choose our own path in life. A subtle but distinct difference.

In that case moral evil becomes a terrible but necessary by-product and it shows that there are limits on what God can do. If he were to eliminate moral evil he would also have to eliminate our freedom to choose and he can't do that without making us all robots.

38

Do the Governing Body have a priviliged life style or not?

by Gill in

having heard that ted jaracz is being flown out of state to consult a heart specialist, i started wondering what other luxuries the governing body of the wtbts enjoy!

any one any idea how they really live and if their vow of poverty is fake?.

.

Jringe01

who paid for the flight?

who's paying for the doctor?

Interesting considering that a former member of bethel had to sue the society for an injury compensation

93

Wikipedia being abused by Jehovahs Witnesses

by Simon in

i had a look at the wikipedia entry for jehovahs witnesses yesterday and noticed that it wasn't as comprehensive as it once was.. most links to non-pro-jw sites have gone as is anything truly critical or exposing of their beliefs and practices.. last night i added a link to this site to the "other sources" section.

this morning it is gone.. i wonder whether this is some private zealot who has decided to do it or an organised campaign?.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jehovah%27s_witnesses.

Jringe01

Agreed. Complain to Wikipedia. get them to restrict editing. Freedom of speech is vital and articles on Wikipedia have to presents both the pros and cons in order to be balanced. The fact that someone is taking the time to edit the articles and delete the cons is a serious issue. Those who are able must do all they can to make sure the articles in question are maintained as a balanced source of information

2

James Penton

by Jringe01 in

he finally has a wikipedia article of his own.

it's short but sweet.

Jringe01

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Penton

2

James Penton

by Jringe01 in

he finally has a wikipedia article of his own.

it's short but sweet.

Jringe01

He finally has a Wikipedia article of his own. It's short but sweet.

13

The name changes again

by Jringe01 in

has anyone noticed how jehovahs witnesses are starting to be refered to in the press as "the christian congregation of jehovahs witnesses"?.

i wonder what the rationale is for the subtle name change.

i realize they had started up a new legal entity with that name but i didn't realize that they had extended it to the religion as a whole.

Jringe01

The third one would still be the WTBTS wouldn't it as it's still that entity that prints the literature.?

42

The Watchtower and the UN--MY letters and Brochure--

by uninformed in

i wrote the wt for a year before i was df'd over the wt-un/dpi-ngo deal.

i have all of my letters, the wt jerkoff letter back to me as well as a compilation of a simple little brochure, documenting that the wt was more involved with the un than for a library card.

if you would like to see and read it, i would like your feedback.

Jringe01

Why didn't anyone think to ask for a blank copy of the 1991 form the Society would have used???

I said and I quote: "Better yet there must be other organizations that joined in that year both before and after the WTS, maybe one of them could be persuaded to produce a copy of their form. "

Yes I read the UN letter but it does not address the issue. The issue hinges on what was on that 1991 form and what the standard was for NGO's in 1991.

The silence from both the Society and the UN makes me think there's something else going on here. We don't have the whole story.