the first time i went to australia bethel during a holiday, we pioneer boys put on our best "going out" clothes, no ties just very smart, well groomed and neat.
the sister we stayed with said: "oh no you can't wear those clothes, you have to dress in meeting clothes!
" so we did, realizing we had shamed ourselves and our god.
Why don't they just issue a uniform and be done with it?
I agree. Just because you wear a suit and tie or a "skirt of proper length" doesn't mean you are any more holy. It's so obsessive
A uniform would be better in terms of looks but no better really. the People's Temple had a uniform of sorts and look what happened to them.
usa today everyone has a gun, why?.....to protect themselves...from who?
other folks with guns!.....yes it's in your laws...but they were written when the british ruled you.
one school gun killing every week does not happen anywhere else in the world....maybe you need more guns to protect your kids.....one in the lunchbox.....does anyone else see this.
Guns are not destroying America
Guns are technology... and technology is neutral
It's STUPIDITY that's destroying America
my choices are:.
atonement.
the black balloon .
Frost/Nixon
Dark Knight
Iron Man
waiting anxiously for Valkyre
the real reason?
they're cheap!
how many times have you heard a witness say, "i am so glad we don't have to do the holidays.
Personally I wasn't that into x-mas before the WTS came into my life.
For me $$$ was a part of my reasonign to others but so too are the lies and half truths that the celebraters of this holiday put out
I'm still waiting for the kiddie x-mas play that depicts the slaughter of the innocents. Given the violent video games kids these days play I'm sure they'd all jump at the chance to re-enact such a bloody affair
The fact is that my parents lied to me. There is no such thing as Santa Claus. So they can lie to me for years about something like that but if I take a cookie and lie about it I get punished and told that lying is bad, not to do it...and then parents wonder where their children learn to lie...such utter hipocracy
Now that I am out I refuse to go back to celebrating x-mas. I left the JW because I couldn't live that lie and I won't celebrate x-mas because I refuse to live that lie.
so much for worldwide coverage of the latest tract campaign that ended on nov 16.
("would you like to know the truth?
") our service overseer announced last night on the local needs part that our cong.
I got last year's tract but not this one unless roomie intercepted it and threw it out (kinda hopin she did)
as most of us know on the board - awhile back the watchtower society printed a brochure called : "charitable planning to benefit kingdom service worldwide.
" it was written to provide info to witnesses on a variety of ways that gifts may be made to the society presently or at death.
i have a lurking witness friend on the board who sent me the nov. 15th watchtower and it has an article entitled, " ways in which some choose to give ".
I don't believe that these annual articles constitute begging. I don't like them but I don't think you can reasonably charge that they are doing what Russell said they wouldn't by printing them.
pioneer hour change is legit.
letters are being mailed out soon to all congregations for announcement in early october right before the tract campaign starts.. .
elimination of circuit overseers.
They do not tell the rank and file to put off everyday normal activities Mary because "higher education, better paying jobs, buying a house, getting married and saving for retirement are NOT normal everyday activities for millions upon millions of people around the world, including myself...rather they are goals that we can aspire to
Oops...sorry...I was cutting and pasting from the notes I was writing and didn't review my comment before I posted it. The comment should have read like so:
"They do not tell the rank and file to put off everyday normal activities just because they believe the end is near but also because they want all their followers to devote all their time and resources to the work. I don't think this distinction works Mary because these plans aren't normal activities and besides higher education, better paying jobs, buying a house, getting married and saving for retirement are NOT normal everyday activities for millions upon millions of people around the world, including myself...rather they are goals we can aspire to"
If you think that "higher education, better paying jobs, buying a house, getting married and saving for retirement" are normal everyday activities for all Mary then try telling that to the homeless, to the refugees in Darfur or people dying of aids or other diseases. For millions of people, it's a struggle to survive and these things are not even on the radar, that's why in the WT quotes you cited Mary the writers labled it a "so called" normal life because even they can't deny that for millions of people, what some of their members (and millions of "Westerners") think is a normal life isn't.
Remember that these plans are not things that will distract the WTS or it's followers from their goals. In fact they compliment their goals and aide them in doing what they view as their commission from God. They have a singular pursuit...the preaching and they will do what it takes to accomplish this goal and these plans aid them in that. That is no double standard because, if you look at it from their point of view, they are setting the example they want all their followers to follow...putting all their time and resources into the work and having your plans for life revolve around said work. Again, from their point of view, if the rank and file were to divert from that and start trying to live what the WT has called a "so called normal way of life" then they take away from the work they believe (rightly or wrongly) that they have been commissioned to do.
Jesus did say that you can't server two masters and he was right and that's the philosophy behind this...even though it may not track, even though it may not be true and regardless of the motivation for it (some here would say $$$, others power)...in the end the motivation, whatever that may be is not the point I am trying to make, nor am I saying the WTS doesn't have any double standards.
What I am saying is that these plans as announced by some unnamed "Bethel heavy" fall within the scope of what the WTS is urging it's followers to do and even if they believe the end is imminent that doesn't mean they should just stop everything and sit on their thumbs especially since these plans and the overall work they do is, in their minds, connected to the end that is imminent.
Remember this is a vague word and as I noted earlier, when any disaster is imminent, you don't bring your life to a screeching halt until you have to.
It looks like I may have cancer.
I don't have very much in this life and what plans I do have may seem small (certainly they are not the "so called normal everyday activities that Mary apparently engages in as cited above) but I do not intend to put those plans on hold or abandon them all together even though I firmly believe that my end is imminent.
pioneer hour change is legit.
letters are being mailed out soon to all congregations for announcement in early october right before the tract campaign starts.. .
elimination of circuit overseers.
My point is that this is a perfect example of them having a double standard: one for them, one for the rank and file. Jehovah's Witnesses have for decades, been told not to do every day normal things, such as getting a decent education, buying a home, having children or saving for retirement. This was all said because 'The End' was right around the corner and to make any kind of long term plans was viewed as being 'spiritually weak' or 'lacking in faith', no matter how much you might believe this was 'the Truth'.That's because such long term plans were viewed as "being worldly" and not devoting time and energy to "The kingdom"Yet at the same time they're telling others not to make long term plans in this 'System of Things', they're doing exactly that. They are not making long term plans that would take time and energy away from the work they are doing whereas, in their eyes, getting a "worldly" education or a high paying job would do that.
Don't give me that crap. It makes no difference what your "long term plans" are in this "System of Things", if you're making them, then that obviously means you don't believe The End is near, plain and simple. It's a double standard and extremely hypocritical whether you think it is or not.
That obviously means they don't believe the end is near? Mary you don't really know what they believe, none of us do. That's just speculation and it's not true...see below
If they truly believed that the Great Tribulation was imminent, they most certainly would not be making plans like this, plain and simple, regardless of how practical a move it is. Yes they would because "imminent" is a very vague word . Just because a hurricane or a major snowstorm that'll dump 25 inches is imminent it doesn't mean that your life comes to a screeching halt.
Yet that is exactly what they're 'encouraging' the rank and file to do: put off everyday normal activities until the 'New System of Things'. And just in case you didn't know it: a hurricane or major snowstorm does not translate into The End of the World, so your comparison of the two situations is totally irrelevant.
They do not tell the rank and file to put off everyday normal activities Mary because "higher education, better paying jobs, buying a house, getting married and saving for retirement are NOT normal everyday activities for millions upon millions of people around the world, including myself...rather they are goals that we can aspire to.
Mary...your death is imminent, so is mine.
It's "around the corner" it could happen any day, any time, anywhere. Do we stop living our lives because of this? After all you don't "know the day or the hour" so why not just sit at home with our thumbs up our asses not going anywhere, doing anything or talking to anyone? The reason is this: You don't stop living because a disaster is imminent. You don't put your life on hold until you absolutely have to.
You cannot run a publishing business and NOT make plans...please note that they did not announce plans for 40 years down the road, only for 7. It takes time to get these things done, you can't just throw up a building overnight. Even quickbuilds take several weeks of prep work before the big show. It's not like they are planning for the next half century of growth...they are planning a short term project that will see them relocate a lot of work to Patterson.
This in no way contradicts their belief that the end is imminent...because they don't know the day or the hour so it would be folly on their part if they now were to sit on their thumbs and do nothing.
They are not rushing (in their supposed quest to make $$$) to publish the next edition of Vogue or the latest Harry Potter books. If they were then you'd have a case because that would be a double standard.
WTF are you talking about?? The WTB&TS's main purpose is to churn out new literature. That's what they live for. The R&F buy them and place them, give the money back to the WTS and so the cycle begins again.
Yeah it's what they live for...but they don't publish worldly stuff. if they did then you'd have an airtight case. If the WTS was urging it's members to devote all their time and resources to the preaching and then turning around and accepting worldly publishing contracts then that would be the double standard...that's WTF I'm talking about.
I don't appreciate your smart assed comment, nor was it warranted. I don't think your making this into an issue is warranted and as for my "smart ass comment"...if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen...
Don't give me that crap. Your comment was without any basis whatsoever and I don't see anyone else on here defending what you said.
I really don't care if anyone else does defend it...it's a free country. Besides I've read comments of yours on other threads that were smart ass so why whine about it. Yeah it was smart ass...so what? It's not like you haven't made a smart ass comment before. Little like the pot calling the kettle black I think.
When I'm in the mood for dance music then I listen to iPartyRadio.com
Otherwise i don't listen to radio. If i want news I pick up the Economist or check out BBC online
pioneer hour change is legit.
letters are being mailed out soon to all congregations for announcement in early october right before the tract campaign starts.. .
elimination of circuit overseers.
Jringe01 said: Actually Mary in this one case they are not idiots but in this case maybe you are a bit of one...Just because they believe the end is around the corner doesn't mean they should stop all planning and activity and wait for it to happen. They still need to print stuff and keep an organization running...I mean come on!
My point is that this is a perfect example of them having a double standard: one for them, one for the rank and file. Jehovah's Witnesses have for decades, been told not to do every day normal things, such as getting a decent education, buying a home, having children or saving for retirement. This was all said because 'The End' was right around the corner and to make any kind of long term plans was viewed as being 'spiritually weak' or 'lacking in faith', no matter how much you might believe this was 'the Truth'. That's because such long term plans were viewed as "being worldly" and not devoting time and energy to "The kingdom" Yet at the same time they're telling others not to make long term plans in this 'System of Things', they're doing exactly that. They are not making long term plans that would take time and energy away from the work they are doing whereas, in their eyes, getting a "worldly" education or a high paying job would do that. Also in their eyes it would "expose you to worldly influence" and perhaps make you doubt your faith (with good reason; as we all know they have a lot of holes/grey areas in their faith that a higher education could expose). If they truly believed that the Great Tribulation was imminent, they most certainly would not be making plans like this, plain and simple, regardless of how practical a move it is. Yes they would because "imminent" is a very vague word. Just because a hurricane or a major snowstorm that'll dump 25 inches is imminent it doesn't mean that your life comes to a screeching halt. They are not rushing (in their supposed quest to make $$$) to publish the next edition of Vogue or the latest Harry Potter books. If they were then you'd have a case because that would be a double standard. However they are doing what they are asking of their members...devoting their time and resources to their work. They they are setting the example they want their membership to follow...it doesn't matter what we think of that example or the work, that is what they are doing.
imminent
Adjective likely to happen soon [Latin imminere to project over] imminence n
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
imminent
adjective near , coming, close, approaching, threatening, gathering, on the way, in the air, forthcoming, looming, menacing, brewing, impending, at hand, upcoming, on the cards, on the horizon, in the pipeline, nigh (archaic) in the offing, fast-approaching, just round the corner, near-at-hand << OPPOSITE remoteCollins Essential Thesaurus 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2005, 2006
And by the way, please do not tell me that I'm 'acting like an idiot' by what I said Jringe01 I said "...a bit of one. I can't see how you stopped to think before you rushed to condem them as "idiots" and say they have "...a double standard"; I don't appreciate your smart assed comment, nor was it warranted. I don't think your making this into an issue is warranted and as for my "smart ass comment"...if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen... My observation about the whole scenario was a rational one which shows their hypocrisy plain and simple. If it was that plain and simple luv I wouldn't have commented on it.
