OMG, Josie, that wouldn't be published by the Worldwide Church of God would it? Herbert W. Armstrong started a mag by that name back in the day...they were a cult too. I'm happy for WT articles that warn people wherever their source though.
smellsgood
JoinedPosts by smellsgood
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24
Plain Truth
by mrsjones5 ini have a free subscription to a christian mag by the name of "plain truth".
the july/august issue has an article about the borg in it called "trapped in the watchtower.
pretty good.
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91
FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)
by Terry iniii, p. 712).
vi, p. 137, pp.
cit., pp.
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smellsgood
So, why did Christians just sprout up all of a sudden in the first century sinis? Can I have your opinion?
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91
FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)
by Terry iniii, p. 712).
vi, p. 137, pp.
cit., pp.
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smellsgood
sinis, I knew the focus would be on the Josephus bit, should have excluded it, I know it is viewed as spurious. That is the main point of the article, so exclude the Josephus passage and you still have outside sources. Philo was more of a philosopher, how many men did he single out and write about? I haven't read his writings, have you? I don't believe that he lived in Jerusalem as this article says, he was in Alexandria, a Hellenistic Jew.
Most histories we have in reference to Tacitus, he must have missed some of the other historians who have mentioned Jesus, have few MSS years between. Was the Iliad written by Homer? After the NT MSS, the Iliad is SECOND in the amount of manuscripts with 643 surviving. That demonstrates if that it is 2nd with that many, that other writings only go down from there. Shall we throw out all of our history as spurious? -
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Darin moving along in politics
by Junction-Guy ini just got off the phone with my brother darin, and he told me that he went to an influential republican meeting last night in ohio.
darin is on the screening committee that chooses who the republican party will endorse in the upcoming elections.
he said it was very interesting, and got to see and hear alot.
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smellsgood
Oh come on Dave,,, what about McCain? I find him to be one of the only non-sissy politicians, and he's gotten way more done politically than Fred! I pretty much despise most politicians because they are always trying to be everything to everyone, but McCain seems to me to have an honesty about him that is rare. I can say I respect him, can't say that of many politicians.
"As for smaller government Im all for it."
I'm for smaller government like I'm for a second slice of pie. Government has a very specific role, not an all consuming one. It should fascilitate and get out of the way mostly. -
91
FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)
by Terry iniii, p. 712).
vi, p. 137, pp.
cit., pp.
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smellsgood
If the NT is so accurate please give me a legitimate outside source that speaks of Jesus, the rabble rouser, that drew such large crowds to Jerusalem and was a thorn in Romes side?
smellsgood: sinis, you misunderstand the point I'm trying to make, I'm making the point that the NT has a startling amount of MSS at a very early date historically. That's just a fact, and that mere fact does not attest to the "accuracy" of its contents. However, there are outside sources that speak of Jesus, I'm surprised you don't know about that. I do believe that people who write articles like this like most of us are, but not to this extreme degree, heavily biased to gather information based on their beliefs. The disturbing thing is they promote their ill informed and views as end of the line non-refutable truth. I'm also surprised that they are so ill informed on a topic they are writing authoritatively about. What gets under my skin is not the debate about Christianity and if one believes or not, but someone spreading information ignorantly.
However, a legitimate outside source that speaks of Jesus? Is your stand then that Jesus was a mythical person constructed from various myths, a man, a myth unattested outside of the NT? No historicity to a person Yehoshua who lived in Palestine?
CORNELIUS TACITUS (born A.D. 52-54)
Roman Historian, 112 A.D. Governer of Asia, son-in-law of Julius Agricola. During the reign of Nero, Tacitus alluded to the death of Christ and Christians in Rome:
"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt and punished the Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurater of Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also." Annals XV.44
There is also mention of Jesus in a fragment of his Histories, having to do with the burning of the Jerusalem temple in A.D. 70, perserved by Sulpicius Severus (Chroni. ii. 30.6)
LUCIAN OF SAMOSATA
A satirist in the 2nd Century who was scornful of Christ and the Christians. He spoke of Christ as "...the man who was crucified in palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world....Furthermore, their first lawgiver persuaded them that they were all brothers one of another after they have transgressed once for all by denying the Greek gods and by worshipping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws." The Passing Peregrinus
FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS
Jewish Historian, became a Pharisee at age 19; A.D. 66 he was commander of Jewish forces in Galilee. This is a contentius quotation, the arabic text is as follows:
"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and (He) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."
Found in the Arabic manuscript entitled "Kitah Al-Unwan Al-Mukallal Bi-Fadail Al-Hikma Al-Mutawwaj Bi-Anwa Al-Falsafa Al-Mundah Bi-Haqaq Al-Marifa" or "Book of History Guided by All the Virtues of Wisdom. Crowned with Various Philosophies and Blessed by the Truth of Knowledge."
Josephus also spok of James, in Antifquities XX9:1
"But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are sever in judgement oabove all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thoughte he had now a good opportuninty, as assembled a coucil of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as law-breakers, he delivered them over to be stoned."
SUETONIUS (A.D.120)
Roman historian, court official under Hadrian, annalist of the Imperial house
"As the Jewas were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome." also "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." Lives of the Caesars, 26.2
There is also
Plinius Secundus, Pliny the younger
Tertullian
Thallus
Phlegon, a 1st century historian
Letter of Mara Bar-Serapion
Justin Martyr
along with all the early Church fathers such as Polycarp who was a disciple of John the Apostle, and his students Irenaeus and Ignatius.
That's just history you know. -
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Wife and kids left me
by thepackage inlong story short, (i'll post it later), after many years of problems with the wts my wife and kids left me and she has filed for divorce (no adultery was committed).
feeling really sad right now.
i was a great husband and father, however, i could not take the thought of going to any more meetings and have over the last year started to find was to avoid meetings.
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smellsgood
I'm terribly sorry to hear that. But, she can't just take the kids without getting custody...in my state its primary parenting. Whoever in the preceeding years was the "more" parent...is favored. So in my parents case, my Mum is the primary parent of my ickle bro/sis. It's a little less troublesome than custody...I hope things work out for you!
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Darin moving along in politics
by Junction-Guy ini just got off the phone with my brother darin, and he told me that he went to an influential republican meeting last night in ohio.
darin is on the screening committee that chooses who the republican party will endorse in the upcoming elections.
he said it was very interesting, and got to see and hear alot.
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smellsgood
"Darin is on the screening committee that chooses who the republican party will endorse in the upcoming elections. He said it was very interesting, and got to see and hear alot."
smellsgood: Soooooo, who are they leaning to endorse? Please tell me its not Romney or Thompson. Oh and good for you and your brother Dave! -
91
FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)
by Terry iniii, p. 712).
vi, p. 137, pp.
cit., pp.
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smellsgood
smellsgood: *sigh* another piece of speculation and smudging the facts. I've read alot of these things and at the end of the day it just doesn't hold water to historical inquiry. The test of the reliability of the NT, not the inspiration mind you, should be tested in the bibliographical way, as any other book of antiquity is. This means, since one doesn't have the original documents, as the writing materials were usually very fragile and expensive (papyrus) how reliable are the copies surviving in regard to the number of manuscripts and the intervening time between the original and extant copy? The NT is UNPARALLELED in history. There is no comparison. The interval mentioned here:::
<<the Church further admits that "the earliest of the extant manuscripts [of the New Testament], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD" ( Catholic Encyclopedia , op. cit., pp. 656-7). That is some 350 years after the time the Church claims that a Jesus Christ walked the sands of Palestine, and here the true story of Christian origins slips into one of the biggest black holes in history.>>>>
smellsgood: Fact is, that interval is the smallest of any historical book. It's just a fact. For example, I love Greek and Roman History, and some of what is commonly learned about Rome is from the historian Herodotus (ever read it? You should) To put the NT in perspective, the History of Herodotus (B.C. 488-428) MSS earliest copies we have are around 1,600 YEARS from the time they were written. Wow. Same is true of hundreds of other ancient works. Yet there isn't the same incitement of shock when it comes to judging these books authenticity as is with the books of the NT. Not to mention there are hundreds fewer MSS, hundreds more years apart. That's just unscholarly to not look at these books in light of other ancient manuscripts, it smacks of an agenda.
<<<<Eusebius amalgamated the "legendary tales of all the religious doctrines of the world together as one", using the standard god-myths from the presbyters' manuscripts as his exemplars. Merging the supernatural "god" stories of Mithra and Krishna with British Culdean beliefs effectively joined the orations of Eastern and Western presbyters together "to form a new universal belief" (ibid.>>>>
smellsgood: WOW. I think the biggest myth is this article seeking as is fairly redundant as it's been hashed over so many times, to twist, empty theorize, and rewrite history.
It's not about saying whether the gospels are truth or not, it's about having a bit of historical integrity in that investigation. These people do not. Nor are they very creative. -
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Did you know any "Cool JW" ?
by JH inwere there any "cool" jw's that you knew, that did things that you found so cool for a witness to do ?.
if so, what did they do, that most jw's wouldn't even dare do ?.
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smellsgood
Yeah, I knew a very cool JW girl. But I didn't know the JW side of her, just the very friendly great girl who was one of my closest friends in school. She actually got us into this dance thing at 16 where me and my other girlfriends got loaded (me for the first time) and she was just laughing about it and apparently had experience getting drunk before that.
I was hoping that she would have bowed out from Dubdom, because she's smart, and I don't know. But I learned the other day that unfortunately she still is a Dub. :( I hope to get together with her sometime. -
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Do you have a favourite product you use?
by Bumble Bee ini have a couple of favourites i'll share with you.. first is pure coconut oil for my hands.
at room temperature it is a solid, so i have to immerse the pump container in a mug of hot water for about 5 minutes before i use it.
it's wonderfully warm when i massage it into my hands, and leaves them silky soft!
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smellsgood
That body polish sounds delicious. Most of those ingredients sound like they belong in a fine pastry or something.
I like Tutti Dolce Creme Brulee lotion. Mmmmm, it smells good.
I also like Frederick Fekkai shampoo and conditioner...but it's mega expensive so I use Dove.