Posts by smellsgood

2

Memorial Day, 2007

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

ashbah.

the ghosts of american soldiers .

wander the streets of balad by night, .

I'm always amazed that every year there's more to learn about WW2

I was watching a Bill Moyers piece on a few of the Veterans last nite. I'll tell you nothing gets me a boo-hooing like when soldiers recount their experiences. To think of the day to day life, seeing so much death and carnage, and to survive with those memories like a ghost of the past, always there as a shadow. They were incredibly courageous.

God Bless the Veterans, we are forever indebted and our gratitude is unending!

93

How the Religious View Homosexuality

by serotonin_wraith in

for people who are still religious, what are your views on gays?.

for me (an atheist) it goes against my own morality to think of them as sinners or somehow doing wrong, and yet in the bible it teaches that it is wrong.

it's one of the main reasons i could never go along with the jws.. i'm curious how religious people address this issue.

smellsgood

"Whatever chemical reactions are going in the brain, they make it hard for us to ignore a crying baby, for example. We have no need to kill off anyone who doesn't 'measure up' because the human race isn't going to die out as a result. We are trying to find cures for these 'defective' people."

Are all biological and chemical functions simply a way of 'preserving' the species?

93

How the Religious View Homosexuality

by serotonin_wraith in

for people who are still religious, what are your views on gays?.

for me (an atheist) it goes against my own morality to think of them as sinners or somehow doing wrong, and yet in the bible it teaches that it is wrong.

it's one of the main reasons i could never go along with the jws.. i'm curious how religious people address this issue.

smellsgood

"Are you suggesting morality comes from the Bible? Why then, have we moved away from slavery, stoning disobedient children, persecuting homosexuals, treating women as inferior, etc etc?"

Not even slightly. I believe there is a "law" if you will, that is very present, and we recognise, regardless of what we have or haven't read, when a person is doing something AGAINST that law.

In fact, it always makes me cringe when I hear religious folks saying that atheists "can't" be Moral. That's absolute nonsense. What such an observation as Morality seems to be innate and objective entails,,,that should be the real focus. So many things that are esteemed as "good" morals, even if you were to remove the "right and wrong" of them, and take a second look, can then be reevaluated to be "good" in a different way. Good for the environment, good for health, good for society et cetera, and this is part of the "law of Nature."

What is interesting to think about is why do we have that standard. I can only read the works of those who can cognitively realise the consequences of certain beliefs. "If this is true, then..."

It seems to me, that we all owe it to ourselves to try as best we can is take the ego out of the very ideas that float through our head. Meaning, that we don't become so involved with our ideas to the point where they are our whole identity, that we cannot step aside and rationally think "If then..."

I think one should never get to comfortable or complacent, always testing the veracity of their beliefs at the time. What is interesting is trying to comprehend the true and inavoidable consequences default in such a belief as atheism. To reason that if evolution is true...then...is just as valid a criteria for it's worth as all biological and Scientific evidence.

No, I'd rather the bible be taken out of the discussion completely. It's not about religious texts. That's why I said Neitschze had it right in the end. :)

37

"But he wasn't a REAL Christian!"

by FireNBandits in

jimmy swaggert (a "swaggert" is a swaggering braggart btw), jim and tammy fakker, or any well-known christian that "blows it" big-time in a public way is sure to elicit that response from the fundagelicals around you.

"but he wasn't a real christian!

" what a convenient psychological device to keep ones fantasy image of ones religion intact!

smellsgood

Smellsgood, after my involvement with the Dubs came a short stint with the COG. "Flirty fishing" did not involve sex with minors. That's an evangelical slur and myth. Flirty fishing involved sex between consenting adults of at least eighteen years of age. There probably were people in the COG who were pedophiles just as there are in the Dubs. Pedophilia is not public policy in either.

Hey, Fire N'Bandits,

How old ARE you then, if that is you in the pic you look way too young to have had that much religious experience!

Ahh, but my dear young looking man, the Church of God has nothing to do with David Moses, you are confusing it with "The Family." Pretty sure they had a pedophelia policy in place, the source I heard first about that particular horror was Dateline, have never heard anything from an evangelical. You can look up Datelines story on David Moses, and the young man who was going to kill his mother, but ended up killing another woman and himself after being identified as a "special" kid by David himself. He was part of a book they put out graphically illustrating adults and himself and other children in sexual poses.

It was pretty damn disgusting. Pretty hard to say it never happened when they printed a whole book about it.

Anyways, I think sometimes I see too many comparisons of WTism and mainline Christianity. It's like comparing Taco Bell burrito before and after it's eaten. (Ok, maybe they're a little more different than that)

16

Will I Be Breaking Any Laws?

by smellsgood in

jw
friends

i intend in the future (when i get a cam and can post all the hijinks online) to infiltrate a "meeting" of a certain religious organization which will remain anonymous (no guessing!).

now, i need to know if there are any laws governing the er "interruption" of a religious gathering?

for example, if i ask a bunch of akward hard to answer questions at inappropriate times?

smellsgood

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Blondie, I agree, truly my aim is to bring people out of the org, not reinforce the truthiness of their religion by behaving in a way that they would believe that I was the tool of the devil.

I was thinking not of interrupting the speech, but just like someone said, raising my hand at every opportunity at the Q&A portion.

The camera would be out of sight :) to avoid a confrontational appearance. Also, at the end when I took off my jacket, it wouldn't say JW's are a Satanic Cult or anything, rather, there would simply be a humble www. directions to a contraband site.

I wouldn't be trying to cause a scene, and I don't want it to be about me. I would however like to experience a Witness meeting as I never have before, and at the same time, they would wonder why the first timer is asking all these questions (awkward in the sense they are hard to answer.)

I think it would be fun. I'm completely anonymous in Witdom, so that's an advantage I have. :)

I'm just trying to think of more ways to get the message out there, be pro active about things. I can't stand sitting back and doing nothing, and this isn't my masterplan by any means. Just something to experience.

I think that if I'm polite, and feign a sort of curious ignorance, things could go smoothly. I think if the police were called they'd laugh at the Witnesses "You're telling me this girl asked some questions about your religion?" hmm. Clap her in irons.

Appreciate all the input. I do want to see that documentary about Courtney you mentioned just because! And I love Da Ali G show! Big it up!

smellsgood

16

Will I Be Breaking Any Laws?

by smellsgood in

jw
friends

i intend in the future (when i get a cam and can post all the hijinks online) to infiltrate a "meeting" of a certain religious organization which will remain anonymous (no guessing!).

now, i need to know if there are any laws governing the er "interruption" of a religious gathering?

for example, if i ask a bunch of akward hard to answer questions at inappropriate times?

smellsgood

I intend in the future (when I get a cam and can post all the hijinks online) to infiltrate a "meeting" of a certain religious organization which will remain anonymous (no guessing!).

Now, I need to know if there are any laws governing the er "interruption" of a religious gathering?

For example, if I ask a bunch of akward hard to answer questions at inappropriate times? Will this cause any cops to be called to keep the peace?

If I were to wear (under a jacket until the opportune moment) a shirt that was advertising contrary material to what was being preached from the pulpit would I be disciplined by law enforcement?

In other words, what laws are there, since I assume there is at least one or two, that restrict what a person can do/say/behave like at a religious gathering? I ask only because I don't want to put up with the hassle of paying fines, I would gladly be put in jail if that were all there was to it! But, they always want some scratch. Do the crime, pay the fine.

If anyone can illuminate me as to what I'm up against I would be much obliged. :)

Thanks!

37

"But he wasn't a REAL Christian!"

by FireNBandits in

jimmy swaggert (a "swaggert" is a swaggering braggart btw), jim and tammy fakker, or any well-known christian that "blows it" big-time in a public way is sure to elicit that response from the fundagelicals around you.

"but he wasn't a real christian!

" what a convenient psychological device to keep ones fantasy image of ones religion intact!

smellsgood

"JESUS DELIVER ME FROM THE DEMON OF CHOCOLATE!" It was a very important moment for me. ("She's daft Maritn and you're daft for being here with these daft people.")

LOL! That's f-in funny.

Shall I be a nerd and expound upon all the lovely beneficial properties of Chocolate??

smellsgood eats Chocolate everyday, "Jesus, deliver me a lifetime supply of chocolate!"

37

"But he wasn't a REAL Christian!"

by FireNBandits in

jimmy swaggert (a "swaggert" is a swaggering braggart btw), jim and tammy fakker, or any well-known christian that "blows it" big-time in a public way is sure to elicit that response from the fundagelicals around you.

"but he wasn't a real christian!

" what a convenient psychological device to keep ones fantasy image of ones religion intact!

smellsgood

I would add the David Moses guy. Now, he claimed to have the "truth" was a cult leader, etc. He also began one of the most intensely and excruciatingly "non-Christian" doctrine, that to LOVE a child was to have sex with a child.

In his case, I would say

"He never really was a Christian"

There are some outward manifestations that can be helpful in identifying the "truth" about someones "claims." :)

37

"But he wasn't a REAL Christian!"

by FireNBandits in

jimmy swaggert (a "swaggert" is a swaggering braggart btw), jim and tammy fakker, or any well-known christian that "blows it" big-time in a public way is sure to elicit that response from the fundagelicals around you.

"but he wasn't a real christian!

" what a convenient psychological device to keep ones fantasy image of ones religion intact!

smellsgood

"What a convenient psychological device to keep ones fantasy image of ones religion intact!"

I can kind of see what your saying, but having never been a JW, it seems to me you may be looking at "Christianity" with a slight bent as a result.

The trouble is, is that although there are the biggies in Christianity, we all know them, they sweat at the pulpit, usually wear rings and a Rolex (much like Jesus) always seem to be in desparate need of donations, and sometimes sell snake oil (like the guy with the miracle water!). However, you seem to be looking at it a little like one might expect, given that the WT tends to homogenize and structurize Christianity in a way similar to its own. That way, if there is something going on with one leader of one group of Christianity, it reflects on the disingenuous hypocrites that are the entire lot.

It is not a group structure, though. I don't think that the ordinary lay "Christian" depends heavily enough on the purity in the pulpit, that if a preacher happened for example, to snort meth off a tranny hookers ass on the weekends, that there is even a remote intertwining of their "belief" or "religion" and their idea of who that preacher was.

Basically, a Christian, unlike a Jehovah's Witness, does not have monthly periodicals pushed in their faith directing them to put their faith in Jesus' REPRESENTATIVE (the GB anointed), but rather Jesus himself. So, no, I don't think it's a fantasy to keep ones "religion" intact whatsoever. It's more that that particular INDIVIDUAL was not BEHAVING as they understand a Christian ought to.

Kind of like if a professed Republican were to sit in the White House and create hundreds of new Government programs and beauraucracies (er, sp?), which is fundamentally against the Republican "principles", you'd have a whole bunch of Republicans grumbling about the fact that that particular individual was clearly not a "true Republican." I don't think it has to do with the actual philosophy of the party though.

" Again, this is to distance Christianity--and hence Jesus--from bad PR. Can you say WATCHTOWER?"

Again, I disagree. It would be a bad reflection on Jesus if that person proclaimed that Jesus had picked him at so and so a time to speak directly on his behalf. Christianity while it was all entangled with the State for example, and individual Christians have always done things that could give "Christianity" bad publicity. Be it the system or the believer. BUT, as Ghandi once said "I like their Christ, not their Christians." It should not have a negative effect on Jesus. If it happens to, then that is the ignorance of someone who can't seem to separate out the individual and the body of believers. What you're saying kind of reminds me of how the family operated in times past, where if say Lucy were to have a child out of wedlock, it would "dishonor" the family name. So it was kept hidden. Luckily, I think we've moved past that for the most part.

In my mind, after having made myself extremely familiar with the Watchtower over the past 5 years, but never having been a JW myself, it is so extremely different than what I've observed a typical Christian group to be its not even funny. No organized top down structure for the group. Entirely a heterogenous bunch.

93

How the Religious View Homosexuality

by serotonin_wraith in

for people who are still religious, what are your views on gays?.

for me (an atheist) it goes against my own morality to think of them as sinners or somehow doing wrong, and yet in the bible it teaches that it is wrong.

it's one of the main reasons i could never go along with the jws.. i'm curious how religious people address this issue.

smellsgood

Hey serotonin_wraith

you said:

"I can agree 100%. However, this comes from human morality, not that of the Bible."

smellsgood: I think that its interesting that you said "human morality." It's interesting to me to think of "morality" in light of all the diverging viewpoints, on well, everything in the world.

So, where does it come from? Especially in light of survival of the fittest...why are we not driven to discard "defective" children for instance? They do nothing for us. They are a burden to their parents and society (even if their parents "love" them). They don't contribute intellectually or financially to our society, etc. So, why don't we, just as the Spartans, or even the Romans, get rid of them? Like Eugenics was trying to do in the early 20th century? Route them out and dispose of them? What is the "moral" hangup and why can we not intellectually overcome it in the interest of bettering our Society? Non-contributive=worthless does it not?

What if I kicked you in the shins because I felt like it? What if you got upset about it? Well, then I say, to hell with your standard, I am autonomous and do as I please.

Please look at this as I do as a philosophical inquiry, trying to leave preconceived notions, ego, prejudices and bias behind.

Interesting thing to think about. I think Neitschze concluded it right before he turned mad.

smellsgood