recently, i met an old friend for a coffee, he is a jw in good standing.. he does not know of my "awakening", but he knows, that i m pretty open with things.. so he came up with some thoughts, that, if somebody listened, would be enough for a jc on basis of apostasy.. since his english is not so good, i suppose he did not read this on the internet.. i just paraphrase some of his thoughts:.
the creation account in genesis is not accurate and in line with science.
a global flood was not possible.
Good to hear Inbetween. I had some similar exchanges with two JW friends recently. I have been out for over 8 years, so I am not sure if it is just that I see things from a much clearer perspective than I used to, but I sense that the R&F are not too content with things lately from the discussions I have had.
d4g
Terry -
Nailed it again!
I very recently had a discussion, (both written and verbal), with a an old JW friend, where I used the same argument, (although not nearly as eloquent and concise as yours), to make the point about the uselessness of arguing scripture or doctrine. In the end, her cognitive dissonance kicked in, but I believe that was only because the point was made clear to her.
I could not agree more that it is not only a waste of time to debate interpretation based on a false premise, but also tends to prove to be counterproductive in the end due to the dishonest and unfactual nature of the content of the discussion.
I will write more about this on a separate thread shortly. I am still a bit raw over the outcome with the specific friend, (someone whom I care about quite a bit).
d4g
i believe it is mostly guilt.
many witnesses pioneer or "reach out" in the religion because they feel guilty.. they may feel they aren't doing enough.
they may have secretly "sinned" against rules imposed by the organization.
Why stay? Contrary to a popular view on here, I know that the very vast majority really believe it to be God's Organization, they think they are serving God.....so they do..
Blues - I agree with that.
That said, there still needs to be movtivation for that belief, (think most people tend to believe what they want to). Fear at many levels, from extenential anxiety to fear of loosing family, admitting they wasted many years and oppurtunities in life, etc. all serve to reinforce that belief. Add to that many of them have authoritarian personalities, (they need authority in thier lives), so they cannot easily overcome the inertia that prevents otherwise intelligent people from making a rational decison to leave. I know how hard it was for me.
d4g
i came across this nugget in the may 2014 issue:.
"are you moving ahead with jehovah's organization".
....at one time, the anointed remnant were like the little one, but their number grew as other spiritual israelites were brought into gods organization.
Hmmmm... That would make sense as to why they changed the F&DS from all anointed to just the GB.
I agree with that.
our friend, oompa, has passed away.
just recieved the news a couple of hours ago, and have almost no details.
it happened today or yesterday, he took his own life.
I haven't been on JWN much lately, and in recent years post much less. I just saw this horrible, horrible news. My heart goes out to Eric and those who loved him.
RIP, my friend.
jv
terry was admitted to the hospital yesterday.
he has a severe case of cellulites which has affected his neck glands.
his face and neck are very swollen.
Terry,
Good to hear you are doing better!
jv
this topic was inspired by another recent thread started by ak jeff.
the excerpt below is from the book "people of the lie", by the late m. scott peck, who also authored the best-seller "the road less traveled.
" "people of the lie" is about the nature of evil, and dashed all my previously held notions about what evil was.. you would do yourself a favor if your attention span is long enough to take the time to read this, because as you do, i want you to relate what is being said directly to the leaders of the watchtower society, past and present.
Farkel,
I don't comment on here much anymore, (as I am long since over the WT BS), but do drop in on occasion. This is the most brilliant post I read here probably ever. It mirrors the conclusions I have come to on my own that took years to understand.
I don't expect to see many replies to this thread. Either most people won't get it, (or more correctly, won't want to get it).
Jason
i'm a big fan of mr. raymond franz and read both of his books a number of times.
does anyone here think maybe he didn't tell everything he knew.
for legal reasons and will expose more than he has told before , since the wts can't touch him after he dies.
I don't know if more information on the WT corp will be revealed from Ray or his direct "sources", but it is clear that Ray does not "tell" everything in his books. He, (understandably), avoids legally sensitive matters, and sticks to topics that would make a JW think twice, but the average person, (non-JW), would not bat an eye over. There is no way he could have dodged the corporation's legal arm for 30 years if he told everything. He tells enough for the average thinking person to connect the dots. The WT corporation knows that, and they leave him alone.
Ray was genuinely a good man, but he was "one" of them. He could only work within that status.
Jason
just setting the record straight.
there is another thread that notes a claim on wiki that said that ray has died.. he had a stroke yesterday, and is in the hospital.
he is still alive.
Have not posted in a long time. This is very sad. Hope and pray Ray pulls through. If anyone speaks to Cynthia, please let her know she any Ray are in my thoughts and prayers.
Ray was a great help to me after my escape from the Borg.
Jason
if you are ready for everything... try to listen the talk by ciro aulicino you will be with me in paradise.. the fact, that jw are willing to listen such crap is a proof, they are all insane.
(i wanted to say "idoits", but decided to be polite...).
if you have good guts, sit down and go for it.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwa9kx5wjtm.
I'm speechless. How could anyone sit through that? I was done at 2:30.
