done4good

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Posts by done4good

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  114

  Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

  i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

  indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

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  done4good

  I hate when people spew philosophy and pretend they are doing it in the name of a scientific debate. This thread is nothing but pointless fluff.

  
  

  Can you back that up?
  
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  114

  Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

  i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

  indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

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  done4good

  The very definition of belief implies there is no proof. Believers cannot quite their head around this fact in of itself, hence why the endless questions of "what is belief", questions predicated on "for those who believe in evolution", etc. It is almost as if belief is a requirement of something being factual to believers. It is almost impossible to debate someone who is not defining the very meaning of the term the same way, but that is another story...

  If they just understood the simple fact they had no proof to begin with, there would be no debate at all. What this really comes down to is debating the definition of the term, which in reality is not open to any debate.

  Thus your frustration, and why no proof is ever offered for such claims.

  d4g
  
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  32

  Seeking support during confusing and stressful 'cognitive dissonance'

  by LHS123 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry for the long post but i need help.

  ive been a jw for 20 years - still active and attending meetings, baptised at 18, i have recently become very dissillusioned.

  a few reasons: ill treatment of my kids by a prominent 'assembly speaker' elder, then my son left the truth at 15 (not baptised) and was 'dropped' instantly, despite this community having been his whole life for 15 years.

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  done4good

  A break is a good initial step in one's overall exit strategy. It will help "normalize" you, and provide you with some point of reference outside of the organization, providing concrete evidence that "the big bad world" is not the place the WT says it is. I did not do any research on the organization until I took such a "break", (3 months).
  

  It was realizing that I was happy for the first time in my life after this break, that opened my eyes to many things. This allowed me to do research without fear or guilt. The rest is history.

  d4g
  
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  41

  "Jehovah's people as a whole can never be corrupted..."

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zgds4z-h2i.

  transcript below (with key points of interest bolded):.

  please open your bibles to phil.

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  done4good

  sparrowdown an hour ago

  This whole Jehovah's people as a "whole" shit helped me wake up.

  They are literally admitting everytime they say that, that they do not care about individuals, individual people, individual families are all expendable, colateral damage in theocratic warfare.

  
  

  Realizing this is why I never returned after leaving in late 2005.
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  16

  Compliment or criticism - what affects you most?

  by EdenOne in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  a bit of introspection on this one ... just read on someone's post that a compliment makes him "float" for hours, and it got me thinking; within the spectrum of comments that people make about me, from compliment to criticism, which is the type that most affects me?.

  after my experience as a jehovah's witness, i find that i've become suspicious of compliments and over-sensitive to criticism.

  because a common technique of elders was to compliment someone before going down to business, that is, giving hard counseling or discipline.

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  done4good

  It is difficult for someone with a JW past to see either from a realistic perspective. The compliments we were given as JWs were often fake, about fake things, from fake people. Likewise, the criticism given was always under the guise of something due to "sinful" or "imperfect" tendency. Under such context, it is almost impossible for someone to see either for what they should be. We become distrustful of compliments, (and those who give them), and we cannot see criticism as an opportunity for improvement.
  

  Compliments from sincere people are generally sincere. Criticism offered by sincere people is generally constructive in nature. The longer we are away from the "lie", the better we appreciate this.

  Good OP.

  d4g
  
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  200

  Scientific Proof that Evolution is NOT Scientific!

  by Nicola.threeangelsmessage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  bruce malone, an outstanding scientist has absolute scientific proof that evolution is not scientific!.

  bruce, a leading researcher for dow chemical for 30 years; he is one of the top 100 inventors eighteen of his inventions raised millions of dollars; and has a b.s.

  degree in chemical engineering.

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  done4good

  The personal attacks on Viv are disgusting. If not deleted already delete Nicola now, please.
  
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  7

  JW unwittingly shares article PROMOTING pot smoking

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, my wife is surfing facebook today.

  comes across a post by a jw "friend" of ours titled "8 scientific reasons you should never smoke weed.".

  it turns out to be an article actually showing evidence to the contrary!

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  done4good

  LOL!

  Is there anything these days that does not invoke cognitive dissonance in JW? (I mean, pot couldn't possibly be safer than GB approved alcohol right???)

  Talk about desperately looking for sources of confirmation bias, thinking you found one, and either completely not getting the sarcasm or just not reading the article.
  

  d4g
  
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  24

  JWs through the eyes of an eight year old

  by maksutov in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my wife is a jw, and is teaching our eight year old daughter jw beliefs.

  i am trying to teach her about evolution and critical thinking skills.

  here is a conversation we had today (as best i can remember it):daughter: "why do bad things happen?

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  done4good

  Great post. My very first "doubts" came about the time I was 8, asking probing, (but different), questions of my JW parent at that age.

  Unfortunately, I had no reliable non-JW sounding board to ask the same questions of, and it took another 24 years to leave after that. You did a great job in helping her to develop her critical thinking skills.
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  200

  Scientific Proof that Evolution is NOT Scientific!

  by Nicola.threeangelsmessage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  bruce malone, an outstanding scientist has absolute scientific proof that evolution is not scientific!.

  bruce, a leading researcher for dow chemical for 30 years; he is one of the top 100 inventors eighteen of his inventions raised millions of dollars; and has a b.s.

  degree in chemical engineering.

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  done4good

  The level of gullibility and lack of train of thought it would take to believe such hubris is all you need to know about the source of this information.

  Some people never learn how to think critically, in or out of a high control religion.

  My more cynical side says some people are just simply incapable of critical thought.
  

  d4g
  
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  16

  Article in The Guardian - Faith no more: how the British are losing their religion. Mentions JWs

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/apr/14/british-christianity-trouble-religion-comeback .

  the british have lost faith in religion much faster and more completely than they have lost faith in god.

  the most recent survey to show this comes from win/gallup, which found that britain appeared one of the most irreligious countries on earth, with only 30% calling themselves religious.

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  done4good

  Even if Christianity is a myth there still a great value in the whole god, guns and country, get married , have three children American model is much better for a sustainable society.

  
  

  First off, I am an American.

  Barbara posted this to highlight a point about the UK moving away from being a religious society. It is for the better, quite obviously.
  

  Europe's current economic issues have nothing to do with their secularism. This is a false dichotomy and a logical fallacy.
  

  I will start by saying that basing a society on myth, (read non-reality), is no way to have a long term sustainable future. America is slowly heading in that direction, unless the secular majority has a true majority say on the issues that face the US.
  

  d4g