Posts by done4good

69

Average Age of this Forum?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo!.

i'm quite interested in knowing the average age of those of us who use this forum.

i made a quick strawpoll that you can find at the following link: http://strawpoll.me/4340636 just pick an age and click "vote" if you wish to participate.. admins: if this breaks any rules, i apologize in advance..

done4good

42.

14

2014 Pew Research on US Religion

by adjusted knowledge in

jw
friends

the pew survey i've been reading is quite lengthy, but filled with interesting information.

it really explains a lot of the social issues.

impact of little education, donation issues, the issues of women finding marriage partners.

done4good

Giordano - I was struck by the education figures: 63% had High School or Less.

25% had some college.
9% had college
3% had post-graduate degree
Right there you can see the future of this religion. They have put themselves in the same situation as the Shakers.....doomed to fail because of their own dogma and polices.

Which is precisely why I state there is little to nothing strategic about the current changes being made, apart from reacting to the projected effects of a reduction in donations. Purely reactionary, which is typical for authoritarian systems, (religious or otherwise).

d4g

36

Something tells me 1914...

by Monsieur in

after todays watchtower lesson, and the lessons coming, something tells me bigger and bigger new understandings are coming.

and that it will culminate with 1914. notice how jesus is now coming, and no longer already here.

the current understanding is both, he is here and hes also coming.

done4good

I am not so sure, (at least at the moment), there is a deliberate effort to abandon 1914. That said, it could happen at any time. It will likely be one of the last of the esoteric teachings to go, however.

More to the point, much of what is going on is just normal social evolution of an end-times religion. After a while, the supporting structure for end-times belief becomes less of such a structure. They didn't plan for this, but the end of the world never happened, so they naturally need to water down proprietary doctrines that support that belief in order to survive. It is obvious to those on the outside looking in, not so much to those too close to the organization.

The organization is slowly evolving into a lifestyle religion, not unlike the LDS. Doctrines progressively mean less and less, and the social "norms" of identification, (however poorly supported by logic), as a JW become increasingly important. This is not so much a well designed strategy as it is just normal social evolution.

d4g

37

Seems very easy to leave now, why do people hesitate?

by Xanthippe in

when i see people on here saying they've looked on several sites before this one, jwfacts, jwstruggle, youtube, etc., and then they make friends here, sometimes meeting up with ex-jws, it seems incredibly easy compared to leaving in 1989. .

no internet, no amazon to find ex-jw books, no facebook to link up with ex-jw groups.

still people find it so hard to leave.

done4good

Xanthippe - I knew this would probably upset some people but I am not talking about those staying in for family. All the other reasons have amazed me over the years on here. I'm not ready. Where shall we go to? What about my social life? However, never an easy subject to broach but I think some of the answers have been really interesting and may help lurkers

Much of the issues outside of the desire for normal social interaction with leaving have to do with existential anxieties. Certain personality types have a very difficult time not "knowing" what happens when they die, why we are here, etc. They would prefer to have any answer, (however wrong), rather than none. Guardian types typically fall into this category. (a broad MBTI type). My own presupposition, but I think it is at least educated.

I personally did not experience this anxiety, however many do. Rational type personalities, (another broad MBTI type category), are likely the least to suffer from such anxiety, I would think. (and yet another presupposition).

d4g

22

Everything seems to be changing... why not birthdays?

by StarTrekAngel in

if we look at all doctrines, we see an overall effort to conserve unity and control.

- assuming most birthdays, if allowed, would probably be oriented to children, then that means 40 celebrations per year.

so all in all, this give a total potential attendance to a birthday of 30 families (120 attendance / 4 family members).

done4good

Mephis - If one takes something like the principles behind eg Maslow's hierarchy of needs, JWs rarely meet all of them

They are lucky to get "safety", barely get "love", almost never "esteem", and I doubt they know what "actualization" is.

d4g

22

Everything seems to be changing... why not birthdays?

by StarTrekAngel in

if we look at all doctrines, we see an overall effort to conserve unity and control.

- assuming most birthdays, if allowed, would probably be oriented to children, then that means 40 celebrations per year.

so all in all, this give a total potential attendance to a birthday of 30 families (120 attendance / 4 family members).

done4good

The reason celebrations are banned is simple - control.

It prevents a person from having normal endearing social involvement with family and other non-JWs.

Typical cult behavior.

d4g

15

Laughable - If it Wasn't So Hypocritical & Pathetic

by The Searcher in

"we do not believe that.....those who take the lead in religious activities should have titles that elevate them above others.

" (stated on the jw.borg site!).

what about governing body member, faithful & discreet slave, branch overseer, .

done4good

Typical Orwellian cult speak.

d4g

37

Seems very easy to leave now, why do people hesitate?

by Xanthippe in

when i see people on here saying they've looked on several sites before this one, jwfacts, jwstruggle, youtube, etc., and then they make friends here, sometimes meeting up with ex-jws, it seems incredibly easy compared to leaving in 1989. .

no internet, no amazon to find ex-jw books, no facebook to link up with ex-jw groups.

still people find it so hard to leave.

done4good

If it were just about the "truth", or the desire to have the truth, it would be easy for anyone to leave today. The reality is, it is not about that for most people, and never was.

As some have noted here, to some extent the reason most find it hard to leave, is the fact that the organization as a whole plays upon our nature as social creatures. We do not naturally allow ourselves to be put into situations that cause us to separate ourselves from loved ones. Choosing to openly stop believing automatically creates such a situation. We all intrinsically know this.

It takes a special person to leave on the desire for truth alone. I wish I was that good. It took some big f@cking tough life lessons that forced me to walk away from the WT. This was as a successful, educated adult at that.

Self honesty is the most liberating thing a person can have, but it is very expensive.

d4g

160

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! in

i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

really?

and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

done4good

I'm getting the distinct impression that certain details of what I wrote have either been missed or are being deliberately ignored by a number of commenters here.

So, before I offer any responses to some of the comments made, allow me to recap some key phrases from my post yesterday so as to reinforce the points I was making. I wrote . . .
The abusive "shepherd" is not the "flock."

The control [the Governing Body] exerts over the brothers and sisters is reprehensible, and several of its key theological doctrines are false and have misled and continue to mislead millions.

The Governing Body and its Watchtower Society is not our "religion."

The Family has been infected by a number of false teachings and has been wounded by the harmful control of the "wolf in sheep's clothing."

Remaining with the Family is not the same as endorsing the Watchtower Society, just as remaining in solidarity with abused siblings (though they may suffer Stockholm Syndrome) is not the same as endorsing the abuser who abused them.
I've noticed many here do not see (or perhaps refuse to see) a difference between the Watchtower Society and the people who collectively are the faith Family known as Jehovah's Witnesses. There is, in fact, a huge difference. By way of analogy, one (the Governing Body) is the "wolf in sheep's clothing," the other (the Family of brothers and sisters) is the "flock." They are not one and the same (any more than the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin during the Soviet era were one and the same; one was a "sheep" the other was the "wolf")..
I've noticed that the term "organization" is employed by many here to refer to the "wolf" and the "flock" as a single entity, as if mutual partners in the commission of a crime. I reject that characterization outright, and for reasons that I already explained in my comments yesterday. It is why I rarely ever use the term "organization." Instead, I use the term "Family" to refer to the brothers and sisters as separate from the Governing Body and its Watchtower Society that has taken control over a large part of the Family (though not all of it, to be certain). It's vitally important to make a distinction between the two.
Allow me to offer another analogy. We can liken the situation of the Witnesses under the control of the Governing Body to the Soviet Union era: the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin were not in willing collusion (at least not the vast majority of them) with the fascism under which they themselves were suffering. They were, in a very real way, captives. The Russian people are analogous to Christian witnesses of Jehovah as a faith Family. There was the Soviet Union, which is analogous to the Watchtower Society. It was operated by the Kremlin, which is analogous to the Governing Body. The population captive within the Soviet sphere of influence as a politically controlled group is analogous to "Jehovah's Witnesses." The communist/fascist ideology under which the people were politically controlled is analogous to the appellation "the Truth." Yet as a culture, the people were Russians, not Soviets. Their home was Russia, both historically and geographically. "Soviet" was an imposed political designation. When the Soviet Union fell, the people as Russians, though greatly wounded, remained.
This is how I see the situation. Yes, many have escaped, and no doubt for good reasons. I do not blame them for this, nor do I disparage them for it. Yes, many of those escapees (though certainly not all) have become driven by a bitterness that blinds them to reason. Yet many, like myself, remain. In my case, it is by deliberate choice. Because the Family is my home and my culture; it is my "Russia." I do not support the Watchtower Society (the "Soviet Union") or its policies ("the Truth") under the control of the Governing Body (the "Kremlin"). As a dissident I work patiently from within, with my brothers and sisters. I will not abandon them, nor will I unfairly categorize them as being in collusion with the Watchtower Society as one "organization" willfully fomenting a crime of religious fascism.
So, having recapped and reinforced my key points on this particular matter, I'll be back later to respond to some of the responses to my remarks from yesterday.
BROTHER JERAMY

Sorry Jeramy, but it is you that is missing the point. I recognize that you are new to this, and don't see it yet, but to state the most of us are missing or ignoring your points is nonsense. I am calling you on it. You are much too new to TTATT to get all of it. I have been a JW and out long long enough to know that.

I understand why you are comparing the JW experience to Soviet Russia. I have some good friends that are Russian and grew up there in the Soviet era. While it is true that they were not allowed speak their minds openly, the level of thought control that goes with the JW experience was not there. They yearned for the freedoms most of us have. JWs actually think their "way of life" is better than most. Even if it is not the truth. Many JWs I know have said this.

Since you think there is some "brotherhood" that actually was part of some form of "true" worship at one time, again I ask, (if you actually read my post), at what point did that way of worship become false? If that was not the intent of your statement, then I would have to ask why do you the JW are special? If you think they are, than it is you that is being somewhat arrogant. The JWs as a people are no better and no worse than anyone else. If you are hung up on this point, again I ask why?

I know this post comes across quite blunt. I apologize for that in advance. My intent is to get you to think. The ex-JW community are not a bunch of angry disgruntled misfits as you have been told. We are human beings, along with the rest of the 7 billion on the planet. The JWs are nothing special. Just human, along with the rest of us. The GB, and whatever charlatans that existed before them that controlled the WTS, are nothing more than narcissistic individuals that actually believe they somehow had some special knowledge of how the universe operates, like all others that start a religion. No sane person would do such a thing.

d4g

72

Specific Comments By R&F About May Broadcast

by freemindfade in

i know there are many posts discussing the may money requesting televangalism...er... broadcast i mean!

but i wanted to start one where anyone can put what they have heard any non-exjw, non-apostate witnesses say good or bad about the broadcast.

i don't see how it can't rattle followers... but then again i might be surprised how they can twist things (2+2=5).

done4good

a watcher -I haven't gotten any feedback from my Sisters yet, but I know how I feel about the May broadcast.
I sometimes wonder if the GB in their ivory tower know we're in the middle of a recession/depression, and things are going to get WORSE, not better.
I hope there are some rich Witnesses that can afford to give the GB what they want.
I sure can't.

Do you see the cognitive dissonance in this post, watcher? Look for it, if you don't.

d4g