Posts by done4good

25

Watchtower Society and Science

by FusionTheism in

is the governing body's methods and practices all that much different from the way scientists work?.

some prominent scientists and big media in the 1970's were pushing imminent disaster from global cooling.

now its global warming and they all sweep the global cooling fiasco under the rug and act like it was just one or two rogue individuals.. other examples can be given: scientists being wrong on the eternal universe, black holes, whether eggs or coffee are healthy or harmful, presenting fake fossils, etc.

done4good

Some prominent scientists and big media in the 1970's were pushing imminent disaster from Global Cooling. Now its Global Warming and they all sweep the Global Cooling fiasco under the rug and act like it was just one or two rogue individuals.

Let me guess...Faux news?? Hannity? Rush??

In any case, you are missing the point. Understand what science is first. It is a methodology, not a ideology. IF, and I think it is a big IF, scientists said such back in 1970's, it was based on limited information that needed to be tested through a hypothesis. When that hypothesis proved this supposed theory wrong, it went the way of a flat earth. In this case, or in any other, science does not make claim to absolute "truth".

Science moves on, when new information proves a theory wrong, science adjusts and does not dogmatically bind itself to ideology. Comparing the WT to science is about the most ignorant thing I have read on here in some time. The WT simply moves the goal posts, and claim "they never said that".

d4g

8

Hierarchy of Needs Revelation

by freemindfade in

in my quest to always understand why jws get so f%$@ed up (yes oubliette, lets review lol) i discovered something today.

in speaking with one of my fellow heathen friends from this site i was talking about maslov's hierarchy of needs in an unrelated subject but i had an epiphany.

witnesses are held at the third level and never make it to the oh so critical top two sections.

done4good

So true.

The ones that do make it to the fourth level usually leave at some point. Most struggle to maintain the second level, and hope for the third.

"Acceptance of facts" is the big actualization factor, that the rest of this level pretty much hinges on, so if someone at the cusp of leaving does so because of this reason, they are not too far off from achieving self-actualization at some level.

Btw, Maslow never suggested that one level must become "fully" realized to advance to the next. The idea is to become "mostly" realized at any given level, before one can "care" enough to advance to the next. This also explains very elegantly why many cannot see TTATT, despite intelligence.

d4g

53

Spirituality

by Jonathan Drake in

if you are a current practitioner of some religious faith i would appreciate it if you abstained from this thread entirely.

im curious if anyone has had what could be discribed as a spiritual experience.

i'm currently reading sam harris book waking up and it's very good so far.

done4good

I don't consider myself "spiritual", unless of course by spiritual you mean zoning out in the family room with Alan Parson's Tales of Mystery and Imagination, (insert other prog. rock album here), a glass of wine, and well...

d4g

17

The real issue is long term solvency.

by joe134cd in

ok every one raves on at how miserable and tight wt is, while they are literally swimming in money and assets.

although this may be true this isn't the real issue or the problem to begin with.

the problem is having a long term survivable business plan.

done4good

I agree that the many of the organizational changes have to do with helping to ensure their long term solvency, but I don't understand the "think before you open your mouth" part...Just a tad confrontational, and unless you actually took the time to understand the big picture yourself, I doubt you or anyone else would logically come to such a conclusion. That is why your otherwise likely accurate observation was shot down. Use a little tact next time.

Here is why this you are likely correct:

1. The organization has been cutting expenses since they adopted the so-called "donation" arrangement in 1990, (to avoid taxes to begin with), and is now at a point where cuts are hard to come by without massive reorganization.

2. Donations are likely down significantly.

3. Pending abuse lawsuits loom large, (especially in the long term).

4. Also since the "donation" arrangement, the organization must now finance itself through real estate flipping. They have realized how significant the total property values they own are, and how easy it is to get local congregations to fork over both liquid money and assets, and do so within "legal" limits.

They are not so interested in "growth" anymore. They are doing what all corporations do when they plateau from a revenue perspective, they cut costs and focus on profitability. Since they likely do not have an immediate cash flow problem, most of these changes are based on trends that can be extrapolated and forecast. Those forecasts likely do not look too good, mostly due to the intensifying importance and impact of the four issues above.

d4g

27

How Some Climb Up So Quickly?!!

by Sofia Lose in

our current co has not been in the org all that long, less than 10 years, and already quite a respected overseer.

i know of a few married couples in the spanish congs that are doing everything right, you know, with the theocratic schooling, the pioneering, etc., and... nothing!.

how do some seem to reach certain posts so damn quick, while others cannot make it?!

done4good

TTATTElder has it correct.

To some degree or other, the same applies almost anywhere, (in the corporate world). WTS is a corporation, so this should come as no surprise.

d4g

36

Looking for ideas.

by Driving Force in

i received an email from one of the elder in the local congregation.

i am not dfed so there is not a problem there, i am just an aggressive fader.. one of the last things i said to this elder before i stopped all activities was that i do not agree with the borg taking all the assets from the congregations.. here is what the elder said in the email:.

"i recently saw something while looking through the jw broadcasting for the month of may and i though about you.

done4good

He clearly does not understand your actual thoughts on the matter, and additionally, is not ready for TTATT. If you are looking for the most aggressive fade possible, then go ahead and respond. Otherwise, I would just let it sink in on its own when he is ready. Otherwise, all you will do is raise his CD, and that may close the door to his mind actually opening at all.

Sorry, but that is the way it works.

d4g

39

I left the troof behind in 2006. What have I missed?

by Jehovah lol in

i'm up to date with what the wt taught in 2006 but have no idea what has changed since.. do tell..

done4good

I left early the same year, (actually the very end of 2005, I believe). The organization is unrecognizable to me today. It is more authoritarian today than ever, at the same time with a heavy veneer of commercialism and "mainstreaming".

To summarize:

1. The GB are virtually worshiped, and demand complete adherence to their leadership.

2. JW.ORG is gigantic re-branding effort, and has brought all sorts changes in of itself.

3. A new bible has been released that I would assume is going to be used as the basis for watering down or changing doctrine.

4. Any last bit of critical thinking has been squashed.

d4g

32

I think the WT believed their own "growth" statements - Financial Trouble Thoughts

by thedepressedsoul in

we've all read, heard and have seen in the videos where jw's and their leaders talk about the "huge" growth that is taking place.

they've talked about how many kh they needed, branches etc... .

our co last visit he mentioned how quickly the organization is speeding up and the huge growth they are seeing.

done4good

The trend will only be more of the same. They are already proving it. Probably 20% of the overall message will be about donating now. For whatever the exact reason, they have figured out they do not have a working plan for long term solvency. All they can do is beg and guilt the R&F for more.

d4g

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

done4good

Just to add a bit of irony to the above...

The elder that committed the violent act and subsequently not disciplined, was later removed for letting his son come back home to live with them, as the son was DF'd by this time. I believe his wife drew the line over the situation, since their son had some serious issues at the time. No thanks to elder father.

Totally f@cked up cult.

d4g

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

done4good

I had lots of cognitive dissonance and squashed lingering doubts, that probably started when a friend of mine was physically attacked with a knife by his abusive elder father, and after going to the PO about it and being told that the matter would be handled, was later told that all was just "a misunderstanding". That was in 1993. I was extremely unhinged over this at the time. My friend was smart and got the hell out shortly after that incident.

12 years later, after several years of a bad marriage, I decided it made no sense to stay in such a marriage. This led me to questioning the entire marriage/divorce relationship as understood by the JWs, and shortly after that the dominoes began to fall. I stopped going to meetings entirely within 6 months of drawing those conclusions.

I healed, and finally starting asking all of those tough questions that were bottled up due to the cognitive dissonance, and they rest was history.

d4g