Hello all, I should never have relied totally on my memory. That incident (in Bonham)was pre-internet and caused quite a stir among the bros.I have been busy doing research on what the BASIS was that Ralph Deal was able win the case against the society over the property involved. One nugget turned up but I will do further research to verify. When I get all ducks in a row it should be interesting. Dino
Posts by Dino
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12DOES WTS own Kingdom Halls?- Challenge
by Amazing inrecently, the bonham, texas issue was discussed and comments were made that when the jws lost the hall in 1986 that the society then took deed ownership of kingdom halls to prevent another case like bonham from happening.. i challenged this as not being universally true, because long after the bonham case, i kept congregation files and we never made any deed transfers to the society, nor change our non-profit association charter to make the society a beneficiary in trust.. what i did yesterday: i am frequently involved with courts, judges, and legal matters, property titles, etc.
i checked on a kingdom hall at random near my office.
i ran a deed search and the title came up as being owned by the local congregation of jehovah's witnesses, and no mention was made of the watch tower society or any subsidiary corporations.. further, the kingdom hall in my analysis was purchased not long ago, but long after the bonham case.
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16
Bonham, Texas
by TweetieBird inin another thread, someone stated: .
"also, a few years ago the wtbts was burned badly, albeit on a small scale, with the bonham, texas congregation declaring independence and siezing their own kingdom hall in the process.
since then, the wtbts has taken the appropriate legal steps to make sure that if any congregation splits, the assets will still belong to those faithful to the wtbts.
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Dino
Hey Pork Chop, I called an ole' bud in Sherman Tx, which is about 25 miles west of Bonham. He said the exact same thing about R.D. People just plain hated the arrogant fellow according to him. BTW Pork Chop , I wonder if we know each other. I hail from Big D. Dino
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Bonham, Texas
by TweetieBird inin another thread, someone stated: .
"also, a few years ago the wtbts was burned badly, albeit on a small scale, with the bonham, texas congregation declaring independence and siezing their own kingdom hall in the process.
since then, the wtbts has taken the appropriate legal steps to make sure that if any congregation splits, the assets will still belong to those faithful to the wtbts.
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Dino
Hello all!! Tweetiebird, The glorious Bonham incident occured in mid-1986. Since it is public record in the area, I will mention the name of the brother who got the ball rolling against the society. What a man! His name was Ralph Deal. Back in those days the society allowed a totally different legal structure for the governance of the local congregation. There were TRUSTEES who looked after the interests locally. If I remember right, there were a total of three families who followed Deal in the schism. But since the Kingdom Hall property was legally in effect deeded to the trustees, the WT had no legal leg to stand on. From that time on congs were all incorporated under the WTBTS of New York (in the US).Local elders are elected to hold the offices of president, vice-pres, and secretary by the local body of elders.Today the hall involved is a duplex apartment and the local cong. is still affected by all that went on back in 1986 from what I hear. But it is still fully functioning with about 60 pubs. Ciao for now Dino
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5
Condolences
by Farkel ini want to take this opportunity to express my love and thanks to all of you who have generously offered to support me during this time in my life, both financially and emotionally.. i haven't been in a position to respond to any of my e-mail yet, but i promise i will do so soon.
i read the eulogy for my father i posted here to my mother and she clarified a few points and told me that she would like to have it read at my father's memorial service!.
for those who have expressed a desire to sent flowers or cards in behalf of my father and his family, you can do so at the address below.
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Dino
Love ya Farkel, Thanks again for keeping in touch at such a bad time. Dino
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"Waiting on Jehovah"
by jst2laws inmy friends,.
i just finished a holiday week-end with old friends in the organization.
all they knew when they came was that i had recently resigned as a elder.
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Dino
Hey Just2, Who loves you baby. You're getting close to being out. You may feel lost, and when you do make the final break God will make your way apparent. Farkel gives some good advice to not play their game of DA/DF. Maybe fading away is more appropriate for your circumstances. Of course, every case is different. The big thing is how to do the most damage to the org. One suggestion. Have you shown them the linking of UN and WT? Anyhow, keep us posted my man!! Dino
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Farkel Hits the Bread Line
by Farkel ini had a very positive experience today which maybe not-so-coincidentally coincided with my recent comments on matthew 25.. it was only my second personal experience with babylon the grape in my entire life.
my first was when one of my daughters got married in a catholic church over three years ago.
i actually sat inside the catholic chapel and watched her priest perform the ceremony.
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Dino
Farkle, Dare I say it? Please check your e-mail. Dino
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JW Decline
by larc ini found some interesting statistics, some of which you may know, that indicate that the wtbts is in decline.. 1. in the twenty years from 1970 to 1990, the rate of yearly increase dropped from 10% to 6%.
in the last 10 years it has dropped from 6% to about 2%.
since the world population growth is about 1.5% they are only growing at about 1/2 of 1% faster than the population.. 2. in 1999, there were 21 large countries that showed a decline.
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Dino
Hey larc and all, RR, I wish I could remember where I saw that the SDA's membership had a precipitous decline from the 8 million you mentioned to somewhere around a few hundred thousand in just the past few years. The factors that path o thorns mentioned in conjunction with the internet is going to cause exactly the same thing. One more thing will as well. When I was service overseer, I was alarmed at the phantom ministry going on. Service was a social outing and for keeping up appearances in the congo. One elder I knew had it down to a science. He would go out in the great laundromat ministry early in the mornings furtively leaving magazines on the counters and never actually witnessing to anyone. Then he and his wife would meet with the group at 9am and then go home afterwards. It is my estimate that at least two-thirds of the brothers in the U.S. engage in a perpetual return visit ministry where the actual door-to-door work is non-extant. The only time even elders actually engage in field ministry is when CO's visit!I am glad to see it because it heralds their demise. Dino
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86
More Bethelite Table Crumbs Please!
by MadApostate inin a controversial post in a separate thread, janh makes an extremely good observation that a certain former gb member will likely carry many, many wts "top secrets" to his grave, for whatever reasons he does not wish to divulge such.. then, on this db, former bethelites constantly exchange posts where their word choice is "cloaked" so that many of us who were not insiders are left guessing at meaning, people, etc.
obviously, even individual members of this fraternity have unique experiences and insights.
if such info is not disseminated, it is lost if that person dies naturally or in an accident.. would you folks please post more elaborately so that the rest of us can benefit from your knowledge and experience.. the statement that motivated this post made a silent reference to the author of the happiness book.
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Dino
Hello Jerome and all, I myself have posted a message "to Maximus" wherein I stated "check your e-mail". Let me say that I am truly sorry that my post could construed as clique-ish. My ISP's server is wacko and sometimes I dont know if it is received. Also it is fun to shake the monitors up! My file was urgent. Thanks Eusebius for your rational comments. How the monitors must love our discord. Once again, much love and regrets. A humble nobody, Dino
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86
More Bethelite Table Crumbs Please!
by MadApostate inin a controversial post in a separate thread, janh makes an extremely good observation that a certain former gb member will likely carry many, many wts "top secrets" to his grave, for whatever reasons he does not wish to divulge such.. then, on this db, former bethelites constantly exchange posts where their word choice is "cloaked" so that many of us who were not insiders are left guessing at meaning, people, etc.
obviously, even individual members of this fraternity have unique experiences and insights.
if such info is not disseminated, it is lost if that person dies naturally or in an accident.. would you folks please post more elaborately so that the rest of us can benefit from your knowledge and experience.. the statement that motivated this post made a silent reference to the author of the happiness book.
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Dino
Hello Mad and Sam! In the organization there so much blatant hypocrisy with someone always desiring to one up the other guy. Sometimes there is a pecking order as well. No doubt you are disgusted by what you perceive as spilling over into this board. Please allow me to add my two cents about Max, (as if he needed it). I had something so useful to our cause and damaging to the org, but I didnt know how to utilize it. I found Max to be so totally unpretentious and without affectation. He was genuinely helpful and I found that refreshing in view of having dealt with so many DO's that were polar opposites. I know he would be uncomfortable with this, and I hope this doesnt sound gushing, but so help me what I am saying is the truth. Like it or not, Max is one of the elder statesman on this board, and he doesnt deserve this treatment. Max works very hard in the war as so many do here. I personally would much rather hear of his life experiences than just about anything else. Let's give the old guy our respect. And lastly, if you feel left out, why not contact Silentlambs and GET INVOLVED! On the other hand, if (and only if)you are a WT troll trying to foment trouble, then kiss my ass! Really no one is as senstive as you seem to be. Dont take that the wrong way and if you spew insults it wont bother me. Dino P.S. Max, looking forward to that book!
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Deepening Saddness
by Amazing ini look back on the 1970s with a sense of loss and nostalgia.
i was a young man, just married, and so much in love with my beautiful wife.
i had just started my engineering career, and was debt free.
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Dino
Hello again Amazing. My wife and I both checked out the link on Randy's site, and were struck by some of the similarities in our cases. It took almost five years of surreptitious reasoning to get her to see the truth about "the truth". After that we both stopped attending too suddenly, (which was a blunder) and it sent our boys into shock. I had been used on district level, taught at KM school, and involved in just about every other aspect of that religion. My wife had been a prolific pioneer for ten years. So they couldnt understand it. We found your experience very helpful. Also look forward to reading your daughter's perspective on all this.Once again thanks for the link and your time, and I will e-mail you as time permits. Take care my bro. Dino