Posts by Truth2Me

23

NWT. Question

by searcher in

the nwt is a trnslation of the bible.(jw).

the jw's believe that something is only true if there are two witnesses.. the question is... why do the jw's belive that the nwt is a 'true translation' when there is only one witness to it.

searcher.

However, this is an ethical and spiritual dilema to me- because evening thinking a thought, that is not in harmony with what the Society teaches is considered apostacy, and since I no longer believe that the NTW is what is claims to be, a more accurate, modern translation of God's Word how can I support something for which my conscience sincerely believes is not what it claims to be? There are a number of things that pose an ethical dilema for me such as this pertaining to the Society. You are free to live as your conscience ditates and so am I. I loved my time "in the Truth" as it is called, but I learned over time that there was an untold "truth about The Truth" that I cannot deny. Is it right to go against ones Bible based, God fearing consciense? I will have to answer for my choices to Jehovah, and I feel that "I know too much" to pretend that I agree with beliefs or teachings that I sincerely feel are not right.

Truth2Me

72

A Cult

by Beans in

.

let us not forget how the watchtower views themselves!

edited by - beans on 10 august 2002 11:29:50.

Truth2Me

Bleep, I'd like to respond to your question about the NWT.

When I became a Witness, I accepted the NWT, without doing any research or really questioning it. I didn't have the internet access as I have now, at that time, so I just kinda accepted that the NWT was what it was presented to me as, that being a more accurate, modern translation of God's Word.

During my time in the Organization, however, there were a number of occaisions when I noticed that the Society would incert a whole sentence in brackets ( [ ] ) into the text that, rather then serve to just make the text make sense in English, completely changed the meaning, or reinforced WT doctrine, when otherwise the text made sense saying something completely different. The last time I remember this coming up was during the study of "The Greatest Man" book, I believe the text I'm thinking of was in Luke, but I don't remember exactly, and I have lent my only copy to a friend who I was witnessing too some time ago (she became a Christian, accepted Christ as her savoir in December.)

Later on, when visiting Bethel, (Patterson, NY) the sister giving us a tour said she believed that when the NWT is released in new languages, it is translated from the original ancient languages into the new foreign languages....but I found out later, that acutally the NWT is translated from the English version into the other languages.

Later still, when I was df'd I still used the NWT primarily, though I've always had a King James and a New International Version at home as well. Then, when I read Raymond Franz's "In Search of Christian Freedom" he sites compelling evidence that there are major problems with the NWT...for one thing, the devine name was inserted in the Christian Greek Scriptures all over the place were it did not appear in the original test- why? Raymond Franz identifies members (though not all) of the NWT Translation Committee, with his uncle, Fred Franz, being considered for years as the "Scholar" of the Society, being the ONLY ONE that had enough education in the original languages to even ATTEMPT any Bible translation...how is it that they could create a new translation, from the original texts, with such little education in the original languages? Compare them to translation work for other translations......it's obivious that there is a big problem there.

Then, as I attemtped to defend my beliefs as learned in the Organization to other Christians from where I lived and at work, I was at a loss to explain myself when over and over again, the NWT appeared to just change the texts to be in harmony with their own doctrine...so I did research to find out if maybe the NWT was just more accurate...but what I found was very disturbing....take any text which reads "living soul" in the NWT and compare it to the NIV or KJV. Do reaserch online about the origin of the orignal texts....I have done TONS of research on the trinity too...which I never believed in or understand the concept of, even as a born-again Christian, before I was a Witness....but after all the research I've done about the original languages, I cannot deny that the NWT is not what it claims to be, that being a "more accurate translation."

That's enough to digest for now I think.

Truth2Me

36

define "Apostasy"

by zev in

*** rs 34-7 apostasy ***

apostasy

apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of god, actually a rebellion against jehovah god.

Truth2Me

LOL seacher, very creative, I like it!

One of the texts I remember sticks in my mind the most from my days in the Borg (and I don't see in the quotes above,) was about apostates being "fighters against God" or "haters against God" now....THAT REALLY bugs me 'cause I am NOT a "fighter against God." But JW logic would interpret "fighters against God's Organization" and I remember reading from Raymond Franz's books quotes from the WT that to even THINK a thought that is not in harmony with what the Society teaches is apostacy...and apostacy was always branded as "sin against the Holy Spirit," the only "unforgiveable sin."

Well, God's still a big part of my life, so I could not have possible committed an "unforgiveable sin."

Truth2Me

36

define "Apostasy"

by zev in

*** rs 34-7 apostasy ***

apostasy

apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of god, actually a rebellion against jehovah god.

Truth2Me

I think of "Apostate" as the "a" word with the same feeling as the "n" word. But....seeing how the Society teaches that they are "God's Channel" of communication, therefore to defect from their teaches is to them to be an apostate. So sad. I made my dedication to God, not to the Society. Leaving the Society doesn't equate to me as leaving God, although I felt that way when I was first df'd....but I agonizingly learned otherwise with time. I understand why those on the inside believe as they do, as misled and deceived as they are. Someday, when the Society falls apart, and each believer has to rely on God, not Brooklyn, for direction, then the truth will come out, and the REAL apostates will be seen for what they are.

Sometimes I get the imature urge to show up at the KH or an assembly or convention wearing a shirt that says the "a" word on it....but it's an outside joke, they'd never get it...heehee. Sometimes when I'm feeling insecure, and I have been REALLY insecure lately, I go to the hall...and I see everything from a different light than before- 'cause I know "the real truth about the Truth." I sit in the parking lot and play Metallica "of Wolves and Men" or "Hero of the Day" or "King Nothing" or "the god that failed" and wait for the meeting to start....and I ponder what I did getting myself into the Borg in the first place....and I realize that I was just questing to fill my spiritual needs, as I always have, and leaving that doesn't make my an apostate....but if they could read my mind, they would run into a panic thinking they had a demon-possessed apostate in their midst os something paranoid like that. To quote Metallica "Sad but True."

Truth2Me

23

NWT. Question

by searcher in

the nwt is a trnslation of the bible.(jw).

the jw's believe that something is only true if there are two witnesses.. the question is... why do the jw's belive that the nwt is a 'true translation' when there is only one witness to it.

searcher.

Truth2Me

I remember reading in Raymond Franz's books- either "Crisis of Conscience" or "In Search of Christian Freedom" I can't remember which one...that of the several members that he knows were on the New World Translation Translation Committee...Fred Franz was considered the "Scholar" of the Society...being the ONLY ONE that had enough education to even attempt Bible translation. Raymond Franz goes into the educational background of his uncle, Fred Franz in that book, but I don't remember the details. I do remember that I was shocked at the lack of education on the part of the NWT Translation Committee to the point where I sincerely dought that the NWT is a "new translation" at all....more like they just compiled their own version from pre-existing translations, researching only certian texts that they wanted to change to fit with their own doctrine.

I remember a few years ago before I was Df'd, going on a tour of the Patterson Bethel in NY, USA, and asking the sister who gave us the tour when the NWT is being compiled on foreign languages does the Society create a new translation from the ancient texts to the new language or do they translate directly from the English NWT into the new foreign language? She replied that she believed that the NWT would be translated into the new foreign language from the original ancient texts, after all that makes much more sense- it would be much more accurate.

But, I found out later, from the Society's own documentation (can't remember where I read it though) that the NWT in English is used to translate directly into foreign languages....further skewing the truth.

Truth2Me

12

Disfellowship article-Make them squirm

by good2bgone in

jw
friends

the august km disfellowshipping article will be discussed the weeks of aug 19 & 26. i'm thinking of explaining the shunning policy to a reporter or some friends.

they could go to the meeting that night and explain before the meeting that they are interested in listening and learning what jw's believe and see how they treat others.

would it make the elders squirm when the article is discussed?

Truth2Me

Yeah Good2bgone, great idea!

Awesome idea! I say go for it!

Truth2Me

10

The Downward Spiral

by Farkel in

almost twenty years ago jim penton mentioned that the wts was losing its brightest and best members in far greater percentages than its not-so-brightest and not-so-best .

this malaise was jump-started with rutherford's attack on "higher education" and in recent years has backfired on the society.

the wts has promoted low-tech education and employment in a high-tech world and is reaping the very whirlwind it has created.. most recently we've seen another whirlwind the society has created: it is hunting down and executing its best examples of caring, concerned christians: people like joe and barbara anderson, bill bowen and a whole host of unnamed others who are trying to be exemplary christians, even if it means standing up to the unchristian policies and doctrines of the watchtower.. successful watchtower recruits are unlikely to be educated people simply because in the pre-indoctrination process, educated people are likely to spot the doctrinal inconsistencies, the fallacious reasoning and the double-standards that are a part of watchtower life.

Truth2Me

I remember reading in one of Raymond Franz's books that the only member of the Governing Body who had any formal training in the scriptures, was his uncle, I think that was Fred Franz? Fred Franz being considered the "scholar" of the Society......he was also the ONLY memeber of the New World Translation Translation Committee who had enough training in the ancient languages to do a little translating.

SO......It was a big shock to me to find out that the guys running the show in Brooklyn knew less about the Bible than a 21 yr old fresh out of Bible College.....SOOOOOO SAD!!!!

Another thing....

I knew a sister who went to Bethel on her own, having been raised in the World, and becoming a Witless when she was an adult and working as a chiropracter.....Funny how the Society discourages post-high school education...yet they want educated people to serve at Bethal. I've seen the form applicants fill out to apply for Bethal Service.....and unless you are a brother whose healthy and fresh outta highschool...you probably aint' gettin' accepted unless you have a degree in something they need you for, like a doctor etc.

When I met the Witlesses I was about to start my senoir year of highschool. I was very depressed at the time. I was very venerable. Well, because of the Society's feelings about school...I didn't even graduate...and I didnt care. All I wanted to do was pioneer....which I was never able to do. I struggle very hard to get where I am, and it's been a few years and I've got a good job....but it's been a battle to support myself. If only I was encouarged to focus on my education more back then...but alas...God took care of me anyway.

That's my two cents,

Truth2Me

7

Baptism

by joannadandy in

just some thoughts i had...it creeped itself into poem format...i hate when that happens...lol.

there was light on their wings as they stepped into the water.. there was gold on their hands as they pushed me toward the stream.. the thick black of the swirling water went un-noticed except by me.. the thick black smoke they breathed was choking me.. i stepped back afraid.. i stepped back to flee.. they called to me in a siren song that was slightly out of tune.. they pounded words from dusty books into my ears.. the words became pleasurable for a time in the numbness they brought.. there were hundreds all around me.. there was love in their words, and faces filled with indifference.. yet still no wings for me after these long years.. there was gold on their faces, but i saw the red reflected in their eyes.. i sat on the bank and cried gray tears.. the light would never reflect the same.. ashes in my lap,.

dust within the air.. i am made of nothing, .

Truth2Me

When I got baptised as a JW..it was a special time, because it was a public declaration of my devotion to God.

But, I had already been baptised as a born-again Christian, before I became a Witless....so I had a hard time accepting that I need to be baptised yet again.....but I was told that my previous baptism didn't really count because I "Didn't really know Jehovah" then.......I resented that. I didn't really know my Bible---true, otherwise I never would have become a Witless to begin with...but I DID have a personal relationship with God/Jehovah/Yahweh...whatever his/her name is.

A few of folks have mentioned the facade of smiling faces.....I actually bought into the whole thing when I was a Witless....I was genuinely happy in the borg....and I knew many who were too...and we smiled 'cause we were happy.....but after awhile I got to know many who smiled to look okay to everyone else, hiding the pain inside because the "happiest people on earth" couldn't possible be misrable inside.....hahaha....SO sad. I stood out because I didn't play that game. I'm a 100% who I am and I don't play those games. If I'm thrilled to pieces everyone else knows it and if I'm depressed then everyone else can see it in my face. I've heard that in the Borg, before my time, they actually called it "Face Crime" if you didn't put on a happy face. Rediculous!!!!

It Ain't-

Truth2Me

33

Who are the 144,000?

by EXJWBrit in

i swallowed and believed such much shit when i was a jw that i have a few more questions to ask anyone who has the answers.

the 144,000 is a big gripe of mine........ right, i was told that the 144,000 found out they were one of the anointed when they had a flash of "revelation" at some point and truly believed it or they had known since they were a child.

what a load of shit!

Truth2Me

DSGAL, I asked a sister why the yearbook actually showed an increase in the number of "annoying" ones and she told me that was because some of the annointed had been in prison and stuff like that so because of persecution they had not previously been counted, so it just LOOKED like there was an increase, but really there wasn't....makes sense to me.....but I don't buy the whole WT junkola about the 144,000 anyway....especially after reading Raymond Franz's "Crisis of Conscience."

Truth2Me

9

field service when df'd?

by teejay in

from what i've read (and heard) over the years, the society says you can.

you can even go up to the literature and magazine counter and get your weekly allotment and the brothers at the counter will treat you like everybody else.. i hafta say... when i was df'd, i never did.

the thought never occurred to me.

Truth2Me

Hummm this is interesting...I ran into a Df'd brother at Walmart not long after I had been Df'd....he told me that you can still preach on your own.....but I found this hard to believe because I know that the year before, when he had been Df'd his calls were assigned to someone else to follow up on. Then he was reinstated....but I can't recall if he got his calls back....then he was Df'd again.

I have a secret to confess.....I never felt comfortable making donations at the KH....so I never did. Once, I had saved up a jar of change, and I dumped that into the box because I felt guilty for all the literature I had, but that was it. Unless someone gave me a donation while out in service..then I didn't contribute. When I first started studying, and the sister who was studying with me got me a subscription for the mags, I wrote a check for $24 for them. I had just got my first checking account, so I was just getting the hang of writing checks. I think that check was the first one I ever wrote....and I forgot to sign it!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I dicovered that months later, when I found out they never cashed it...but noone wanted to say anything about it to me.

I remember in the KM one month they listed "suggested" donations for certain items...for CD's and CD-ROM they wanted some ridiculous amount of money. I cannot remember exactly what the amount was, but it was several times the cost to buy a music CD or CD-ROM from a store.....rediculous!!!!!!! and where is this money going?

Truth2Me