Posts by Hoping4Change

10

What's the intent of Mat.23:1-3 ?

by Hoping4Change in

then jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: the scribes and the pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.

(mat.23:1-3 nasb).

i've been wondering a lot about what these verses.

Hoping4Change

Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. (Mat.23:1-3 NASB)

I've been wondering a lot about what these verses. I am certain that surely Jesus didn't intend for people to do anything or whatever the Pharisees told them to do. So I wonder just what he really meant when he said this. Is it as simple as 'just dont be hypocritical?) I found one website that tries to explain it away as sarcasm, http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/9575/biblespirab.html . However, though I really liked the bulk of the content of that site (which is about spiritual abuse and not directly about JWs), I'm not sure I bought into the idea that Jesus was being sarcastic when he said these things.

Comments/opinions welcome.

12

Elders manual

by emptywords in

would appreciate if anyone knows what is in the elders manual that is so secret, (hand book) i have asked this before, but had to have certain key to have permission to open the guts of the manual.. would appreciate if someone could help with this..

Hoping4Change

Blondie - How 'generic' is this book? Does it contain any references to JW's? (please say that it doesn't) I am thinking about getting this and having it be one of those 'lie around the house' type of books.

101

I've been studying with JW's for a few months..

by MichaelM in

jw
friends

i've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.

i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .

but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.

Hoping4Change

That almost made me feel VERY uncomfortable

MichaelM - All doubts about their teachings aside, your comments about your feelings throughout this thread about everything, your fears/concerns are your HUGEST signs about what to do. Trust yourself and your feelings on this, even if you cant get your head around all of the doctrinal arguments for and against. All of the reservations you have expressed are HUGE red flags. I'm not sure why, but when I was reading through this thread again, I was thinking of what a child 'about to be abused' might feel/go through when someone they trust/want to trust/loves entices and persuades them into the abusive situation. Your feelings are your instinctual awareness about how to handle potentially abusive situations. It doesnt matter if you cant 'debate with them' or concretely and poignently express why you think they are wrong on certain points. That you instinctually have a knowledge that something 'IS' wrong about this whole thing is what matters, is what can protect you. A real friend will accept and respect your feelings/beliefs on matters such spirituality; they will not hound you and persist on changing you; any one who INSISTS that you are wrong and lost without their brand of religion is NOT a real friend, no matter how nice they are at other times.

24

Why isn' the name "Jehovah" used?

by MichaelM in

is it because many believe that jesus christ / god / holy spirit are all one being, and after jesus christ was born they stopped using god's name and put all focus on jesus?

.

Hoping4Change

Bethlehem - I'm assuming you are familiar with the "official" stance that is here: http://www.watchtower.org/library/na/article_06.htm .

It's probably been done in older threads, but can some of the more knowledgeable here dissect the arguments used in the official stance, showing which (if any) parts of their argument carry any weight and which parts are bunk?

101

I've been studying with JW's for a few months..

by MichaelM in

jw
friends

i've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.

i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .

but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.

Hoping4Change

MichaelM - There is another thread where there are are some similar concerns being expressed: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/136661/4.ashx . I wont repost my whole reply from there, here except:

In the end, you have to make up your own mind. Do indeed, try to see both sides. Learn the truth, about the truth. Hopefully it will keep you free.

20

Common abbreviations used here

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

we use so many abbreviations here that i thought a list might help people who are unaware of their meanings (not everyone here is or was a jw).

some are related to internet use and some are specific to jws.

so feel free to add to the list.. jwd = this website = jehovahs-witness-discussion.

Hoping4Change

CoC = "Crisis of Conscience" ; book by former Governing Body (GB) member Ray Franz

ISOCF = "In Search of Christian Freedom" ; another book by former Governing Body (GB) member Ray Franz

29

High Ranking JWs removed from ministry?

by jimbo in

jw
friends

a freind that listens to srn (salem radio news network) said she heard a news blurb today about several high ranking jws being removed over sex scandal.

any one else heard anything???

she indicated brooklyn ny as the location.

Hoping4Change

This has been updated a few times since this thread began, so ... bttt for any who may wish to 'attempt' to follow what is at this website.

91

FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)

by Terry in

iii, p. 712).

vi, p. 137, pp.

cit., pp.

Hoping4Change

So.... I'm eating chinese food for lunch while reading this article (quite interesting, though not real sure what to make of it) and when I finish eating (and still reading) I open my fortune cookie...it says: "God will give you everything that you want."

116

The Scotsman...this thread is started for you if you wish to comment....

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

the scotsman said:.

<< tee hee - dubs will believe anything, lol.>>.

that's good because you shouldn't believe everything you hear in this world.

Hoping4Change

I know that The Faithful Slave are certainly not keen for brothers and sisters to come to such forums due to the negative effect it could have on their faith.

Faith in what? The F&DS? Seems to me that the Bible promotes faith in Jehovah and Jesus, NOT any group of men. Faith is built up and strengthened by questioning, by exploring the truthfulness of claims made, NOT by blind or unquestioning acceptance.

7

Does anybody have any .pdf legal documents about the sex abuse settlements?

by oppgirl63 in

jw
friends

my roommate wants to see some of the actual documentation.

thanks in advance.

Hoping4Change

This may be of some use: http://silentlambs.org/NashvillePressConference.htm