Posts by LisaRose

11

Big Logical Problem for New JW Beliefs

by FusionTheism in

there is a huge logical problem for the newer jw doctrines and beliefs:.

watchtower, august 1, 2010, page 22:.

so although jehovah does not promise that every individual will receive exactly the same opportunity, he does make sure that an opportunity is held out to all honesthearted ones.

LisaRose

Ding:All honest-hearted people will be okay, but JWs themselves live in constant fear that they won't prove worthy when Armageddon.

Yes! This is the huge logical jump you need to make to accept the Watchtower line of reasoning. If Jehovah is a God of justice, why do people in some countries get multiple chances to supposedly learn about God and his plans for mankind while people in other countries have never heard of Jehovah? Nevermind that even in countries where JWs are active most have no idea what they believe.

Then you have the fact that those that die beforeArmageddon get resurrected and have first hand proof that God exists, plus a lot of JWs around to explain what he wants, while those that are alive at Armageddon are bird food, it is only an accident of timing that separates them.

305

McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer in

so today i was asked my thoughts on the pool party incident in mcminney, texas.

my response: it shows a clash of expectations.

i saw police officers who expected citizens to listen to and follow instructions.

LisaRose

Even when the media was playing up the "out of control cop" angle it seemed obvious to me that the teens involved were not the sweet little angels they purported themselves to be. There were reports of excessively loud music and breaking the rules of the pool. But that is not at all uncommon, unless teens are monitored by their parents they will do such things. I don't understand why the adult who was there and responsible did not rein things in before it got out of control. The mother was saying she was there, why didn't they talk to her, but where was she that she didn't know there was a problem?

The kids were brats. That being said, none of that was an excuse for a cop to pull a weapon, otherwise his fellow cops would not have stepped in to make him put it away. I wonder what would have happened if they had not. Do young people deserve to be shot for not instantly obeying the commands of a police officer? His behavior was horrible, screaming obscenities is not going to help you get get control of the situation, he was obviously overwhelmed and not thinking clearly, which is not a good thing in a police officer. It's just sad that people like him are making it harder for the good cops out there who no doubt can deal with rowdy crowds in an appropriate way.

Also, the United States is not a police state, good grief, don't believe everything you see on the telly.

And what is wrong with young men playing basketball? It's good exercise. I think most of them are aware they are not going to play in the NBA as 98%are probably not tall enough, never mind being exceptional athletes.

80

Is RIDICULE acceptable in online debating?

by nicolaou in

this topic was inspired by one of fhn's comments on the 'warzone' thread, so i'll just restate my post there .

.. "i've been wondering for a while now if ridicule really is an unacceptable feature in debate - it certainly isn't a valid form of argumentation.

the thing is, some individuals really do come out with the most laughable nonsense and parade it as a serious proposition that merits attention.

LisaRose

People dont learn when they are made to feel "less"

Millie, I wish I could give more than one "like" sometimes, I love your entire post, but especially this. Just because you have superior knowledge of a subject it doesn't make it OK to be condescending, rude and belittling, and then give a second helping to anyone that complains. If your goal is to help those in the JW and ex JW community to gain critical thinking skills, you failed, because many people will just stop reading those threads, or they will not post their own questions for fear of bing ridiculed.

59

New David Splane Video: No 1900 Year Faithful Slave

by FusionTheism in

governing body member david splane has a new video on tv.jw.org where he talks about all the horrible things committed by martin luther and the protestant reformers.. his conclusion is that there has been no faithful and discreet slave on the earth during the past 1900 years (before 1919 i guess.).

he also says that maybe there were a few anointed on earth, maybe not.. he did add an interesting statement that he doesn't condemn the other churches just for misunderstanding the bible because the society has done that.. another odd point, was that he actually mentioned catholic missionary work in a somewhat positive light, while totally condemning the reformation views on predestination..

LisaRose

That's interesting and strange. When I was studying I was told that Martin Luther may have been of the anointed, as he tried to bring Christianity back more in line with the bible and away from the false teachings of the Catholic church.

They also condemned the Catholic church much more than the protestant churches because of the use of idols, the teachings of purgatory, paid for masses for the dead, the pope being infallible, infant baptism, and of course pedophile priests.

It now looks like they are flip flopping on that entire line of reasoning. Of course the Jehovah's Witnesses were an off shoot of the Millerites, maybe they are trying to get away from their protestant background and position themselves more in the middle so as to appeal to more Catholics, since a lot of their growth seems to be in Spanish speaking, Catholic countries, or immigrants from them. Pure speculation on my part of course.

They are certainly looking more like the Catholic church when it comes to child baptisms and pedophiles.

150

Disfellowshipping Image

by naazira in

jw
friends

this photo can be found in the april 15 , study edition article titled:.

why disfellowshipping is a loving provision.

just by looking at this image we can see how quickly the barrier between the congregation and former member is put up, after the announcement that this sister is no longer one of jehovah's witneses.

LisaRose

It reminds me of the movie Pleasantville, where two teens are transported to a black and white conformist 1950's world. As one tries to blend in, another rebels, and the more rules are broken the more colorful it becomes.

I would caption it as:

Shunned and humiliated by the Jehovah's Witnesses for being raped, a courageous young woman sadly realizes she has been part of a destructive cult and lied to and deceived her entire life. As she attends the Kingdom Hall for the last time, she looks back and feels sad for the still deluded cult members. She will miss her former friends, but looks forward to being able to get an education and attain her dream of becoming a doctor, something she couldn't do as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

75

What was your eye opening moment?

by WasOnceBlind in

if you had to pinpoint the time or experience that finally made you open your eyes, what would it be?.

i think for me it was the time i saw my dad shun his brother who he had not seen in decades just because he was a da'ed jw.

i thought to my self "no way jesus would do that.

LisaRose

It was a series of epiphanies. Sitting at a convention while the speaker heaped on the guilt. Are you regular is service? If not, why not? If you are, can you auxiliary pioneer? If not, why not? If you are an auxiliary pioneer, can you regular pioneer? If not, why not? I thought, I wonder what they say to the special pioneers to make them feel guilty? It was the first time I realized the goal was not to make you a better person, it was to make you feel guilty.

I saw something in the Kingdom ministry about the UN, and the explanation made no sense. They joined the UN? The Scarlett colored beast? For a library card? People in Malawi died because they were made to think they couldn't buy a 25 cent political card, but the WTBTS could join the UN? Right.....

Lack of love, or any connection at all to anyone in the congregation. Going to field service and realizing no one wanted to talk to us, and the JWs weren't prepared to talk to anybody anyway, they were just getting their time in. Driving aimlessly around town, for what? I thought it was a colossal waste of time.

The clincher was the realization the Watchtower was wrong when they said it was always better to preserve the marriage. I realized that was just plain lousy advice, it had not actually been better for anyone, me, my kids, my ex husband. That was the straw that broke the camel's back and made me realize that they were just people who thought they were more special than they were, they had no more idea of God's purpose than any random person on the street.

141

Schoolyard bully mentality

by FusionTheism in

i'm not naming names, but i just want to encourage people on here or on reddit or twitter, and tell you that you do not have to tolerate people who act like schoolyard bullies in the way they speak to you online.

i think anonymity is a big part of it.

they feel like there is zero accountability so they can be a bully all they want.. i recommend just ignoring or blocking anyone who is verbally abusive or treats you like schoolyard bullies treated you.. life is way too short to spend any time dealing with those kinds of people..

LisaRose

I am an atheist myself, and I feel there is some offensive behavior in the theist/atheists threads. I think most of the posters are well intentioned, but I do think they say things that they wouldn't say if they were face to face with you, and they can be belittling and argumentative. There are some abusive Theists also, but I see it more often with the Atheists

I finally just mostly stopped going to those threads because it was just tiresome. If you want a discussion where your ideas are considered and tactfully discussed, this is not the place. If you want to learn something, I suggest you read older atheist/theist discussions. Probably the point you are trying to make has already been discussed, many, many times (which may indeed be part of the problem ). Maybe if you are just reading, it won't feel so personal and insulting. Who knows, you might learn something.

Don't feel like all posters here are like that. This is just a subject that people feel very strongly about and that does get very heated, it's just not for everybody, especially because we are ex JWs, the open debate and heated discussions can feel very intimidating. Just remember that if you wanted to be with people who all believed the same as you did, you could have stayed in the Borg.

33

This is a topic I am going to kill with my opening post.Why haven`t the Major religions of Christendom exposed J.W.`s as the true Apostates

by smiddy in

i am initially thinking of the major religious institutions of christianity , catholic ,many branches , church of england , and the major protestant religions , too numerous to mention here.. after all their is 40,000 plus christian religions in the world today ?so obviously j.w.`s are not the only false religion .. so my real question is really , to do with the mainstream christian religions , why are`nt they more aggressive in their condemnation of the jehovah witness religion for their obvious failings ,flip backs ,contradictions ,prophecy`s that never eventuated , end of the world predictions ,re-inventing their past history , even distancing themselves from their past history , and their founding members , such as c.t.russell and j.f.rutherford whose policies they now reject... they need to get on board and bleed it for all it`s worth .. smiddy .

LisaRose

Why would any church waste time debunking an insignificant religion like the Jehovah's Witnesses? It's not like they are losing significant numbers of people to them. The only people that need to be warned about Jehovah's Witnesses are the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, and they won't listen to anybody.

Reminds me of the Emo Phillips joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

6

Influence of Death in the Mind

by ivanatahan in

most meetings and congregations stress the idea that jehovah's witnesses will live forever on a paradise earth.

most jws are always "comforting" others about how death is only temporary.

then you get those jws who are scared of death.

LisaRose

I have never feared death either, I don't know why. It just seems like it's an end, you will be dead and not aware of it, so what's to fear? Maybe some people are more afraid of change, so it's the thought of change that scares them, idk. I was always interested in what's around the corner, not what's behind me.

32

The Religion Of Rejection - And Now That Includes Me

by dubstepped in

due to some recent developments i find myself in a new place, and at this point i've lost all of my family and fri....oh that's right, i never really had any friends in the organization anyway.

just people that wanted something from me and a few people that i would invite to do things that occasionally said yes.

the recent rejections of me got me thinking, so let's take a rejection inventory.. i had to reject all of the holidays when my parents started studying.. i had to reject any worldly friends that i already had.. even family became rejected, and the new religion had some place in that.. i was rejected in school and bullied all of the time, not just because we were poor and i made good grades, but for jw reasons too.

LisaRose

Wow, very well put, a perfect summation of the life of a JW, one rejection after another. It may not seem like it, but it does get better. You can't change the past, nor wipe away the hurt, your parents will probably never love you unconditionally, but you can love yourself and stop the negative thoughts. I highly recommend meditation for dealing with negative self talk and replacing it with positive. You are already doing it to a certain extent, or you wouldn't have been able to write what you did, so just keep at it, it takes time to undo years of indoctrination.