LisaRose

Joined

• started 38 topics
• posted 6,078 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by LisaRose

• 
  26

  Why don't people believe Facts?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have enjoyed some fascinating debates on the forum.

  i have found it interesting when" facts" have been presented to support a viewpoint, yet the " facts" have then been rejected.. what does this mean?.

  well the " truth" is as a dub, i was often presented with " facts" that the organisation was wrong, yet as this information challenged my belief system i convinced myself the " facts" were either completely wrong or misinterpreted, .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Confirmation bias, we accept information that confirms our beliefs, reject that which does not, because we have to protect our fragile ego.
• 
  172

  Are You Raising An Introvert?

  by darth frosty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its not easy being an introvert in an extrovert worldespecially when youre a kid.

  it is even more difficult if none of the adults in the kids life recognize that the child is an introvert.

  this doesnt happen only when the childs parents are extroverts, but also with introverted parents who have never understood their own introverted nature.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Hmmmmm, I got mastermind, which I am not sure fits, I kind of expected healer.

  I an totally relate to being lonely but not wanting anyone in my space. I had to dump a friend because she wouldn't stop calling me and coming over.
  
• 
  29

  Why continue to suffer??

  by Tigerlove in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i occasionally come on this website because i have my eyes on a particular user.

  because of that, i end up reading a lot of people's post.

  although very interesting and hurt breaking, a lot of them are very strange.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  People continue to suffer because they have been systematically programmed to believe that their needs and wants are not important and that following the dictates of the religion is the only moral choice and to do otherwise will result in them disappointing God, being shunned by everyone they know and that they will be destroyed at Armageddon.

  It's pretty simple really, fear obligation, guilt.
• 
  36

  First time here

  by BarelyThere in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  okay so here goes...this is my first time on here.

  i'm lost and confused and am feeling very hopeless.

  i was dfed in september and i am still wrapping my head around everything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Barely there, Welcome, so glad you posted. Getting disfellowshipped is really rough, I think it's one of the most cruel things you can do to a person. My situation was much the same, married too young and stupidly, instantly regretted it, but I was stuck. I also had a brief affair, which I deeply regretted, but I was young and very unhappy and weak. So don't be too hard on yourself, we are all only human. Unfortunately my first husband didn't want a divorce so I went back so I could get reinstated. I had to live like that for another twenty years, it wasn't worth it, I wished I had just told them all to pound sand, but I didn't know enough then.

  Take some time to figure things out. Many times people are so miserable from being shunned they go crawling back to the organization without thinking about whether they really believe it or not, and of course that is the whole point of it. Be glad you have some who will talk to you and start making friends outside the religion, friends who won't shun you because you made a mistake and aren't sorry enough in the eyes of some. They don't know what is in your heart, do they? As Jesus said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Of course they ignore that part of the bible, too busy ruining lives by making an example of you. In my experience they come down harder on the women, especially for sexual sin, there is a double standard. Or how else do you explain pedophiles who only get private reproof?
• 
  128

  YOU MIGHT BE A J.W.

  by brandnew in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if getting ready means putting on a suit........ you might be a j.w.. if going out to the field has nothing to do with grass, baseball diamonds, or football ......... you might be a j.w.. please continue my friends.......i know ya got some.....; ).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  If you don't know what sleeping in on the weekend feels like, you might be a Jehovah's Witness.

  If you feel guilty because you caught yourself humming a Chistmas Carol, you just might be a Jehovah's Witness.

  If you spend three hours on Saturday in the "preaching work", but only talk to one person for thirty seconds, you just might be a Jehovah's Witness.

  If "summer vacation" involves a few nights in a cheap hotel and sitting in the heat in dress clothes for three days straight, you might be Jehovah's Witness.
• 
  45

  When selling was preaching ...

  by Hecce in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am going way, way back.

  history reveals that in the beginning the wt was just a publishing house, selling books and magazines; over the years it evolved into what it is today..

  the placement of the original publications was mostly done thru sales people masquerading as preachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  The magazines and books always seemed quite inexpensive, so I never dreamed that money was the main reason they emphasized the preaching work so much, but of course I was wrong. When you make things with all volunteer labor, then have free labor to distribute them, there really was very little overhead, and even those small amounts added up. But it was a business model that was doomed to failure.

  They tried to make up for the donation arrangement by trying to make people pay just as much as they used to, then turn in any donations raised, but that was never going to work. There was always going to be those who just didn't bother to pay or were broke, it's impossible to enforce. And how do you tell them to pay more when the costs rise? You couldn't. And requesting donations at the door was a bad idea also. It probably sounded good on paper but didn't take into account basic human nature. Most magazines end up not getting placed anyway and I don't know about others, but I just was not going to ask for donations, it just felt wrong, like I was begging, so awkward.

  But I think they would have been in trouble financially even if they weren't forced to stop charging for the literature. Due to changes in society, more women started working outside the home, so they were not home during the week and then too busy on the weekend to talk. People became more suspicious of strangers knocking at their door, less likely to listen. In many areas territories got overworked, people were sick of being bothered and those that did take the literature figured out it just meant they would come back sooner. I also think most JWs just don't like field service for the most part, so they weren't motivated to do a good job, and soliciting donations door to door is hard, very few are good at it. Most JWs just want to "get their hours" and go home, they didn't really care if anyone listened or not, there really is no urgency to the preaching work anymore, not like back in the sixties and seventies.

  
  
  
• 
  11

  Donating to Charities

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so donating to charities has always been discouraged by the society, as it is a form of support for this "doomed" system.

  and of course, "the kingdom" is the only "real solution" to all the problems right?.

  but in the meantime, this view gives witnesses a "free pass" from the normal human desire to help out those less fortunate, or ones who were born in another part of the world where life is not as privileged as our own.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  I still remember the good feeling of tossing a few bills into the Salvation Army bucket for the first time, it was great, I do it every year. Of course I checked them out first to make sure it was a good place to donate, they use most of their funds to help people, not on overhead, and they do good work.

  The Watchtower is hilarious for criticising charities for "not getting the money to those who need it", since all charities have to report how much money actually goes to those in need, and how much goes to overhead, where as they have zero visibility as to where their funds go.
• 
  96

  Is the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses really an inferior form of Christianity?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  seems to be quite a few posters recently pulling down the beliefs of jw's as not biblical or truly christian.

  maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, i really don't care.. in some important ways though mainstream christians often behave better than jehovah's witnesses; most don't practice shunning or impose lethal medical prohibitions on their members.

  many are far more tolerant of the lgbt community and a few even make the awkward attempt to square the fact of evolution with their faith.. please note that i'm saying some, not all.. so i suppose it's fair to say that differing forms of christianity can be better or worse for individuals, families and the wider community.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  Thank you both. I actually attended a church for a while, I considered joining, but ultimately decided not to. My husband was raised in the United Church of Christ UCC, also called congregation (not regular Church of Christ, they are horrid) and I would visit when visiting his parents. I attended one where I live for a few months. It's a really nice group, I enjoyed the services, I guess there were a few things I missed about the religious experience. They had really awesome music too, and great snacks afterword, everyone was friendly. Congregations are small, it felt comfortable to me.

  Although I ultimate decided against joining, it made me realize that a church does have something to offer for some people. I still have a sense of spirituality, and taking time to stop and acknowledge that is a nice thing sometimes. I get the same feeling by being around nature. They did a lot of charitable work, so that was nice also, sometimes it's nice to have a community of people with shared values. If someone still feels a connection to Christ and God but don't like anything like the rigid rules and end time BS of the JWs, they could do a lot worse than the UCC. I am sure there are other good churches as well. They have no doctrine, so if you don't believe in the trinity, or a literal hell that's OK, you don't have to. They were even OK with my atheism, they aren't judgemental. I am pretty sure most believe in evolution.

  I was pretty down on religion after my JW experience, but this experience made me realize that religion can be a positive thing for some people. Some just are not ready to give up on the idea of God and telling them they are stupid and it's not logical is not going to help them any or convince them, in my opinion. I don't think there is a "one size" approach for those leaving a cult, I say do what works for you. Maybe it's just a stepping stone to life without religion, maybe it will be a destination, who knows?

  Too many get hung up on the idea of the "one true religion" which is futile. People are imperfect, no religion is perfect. If Christianity is important to you, just find the one that you feel comfortable with and don't get too hung up on the details. Jesus certainly didn't give a long list of requirements for a church. Most of the things the JWs do aren't in the bible, so it's all just the opinion of men no matter what they say.
• 
  96

  Is the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses really an inferior form of Christianity?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  seems to be quite a few posters recently pulling down the beliefs of jw's as not biblical or truly christian.

  maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, i really don't care.. in some important ways though mainstream christians often behave better than jehovah's witnesses; most don't practice shunning or impose lethal medical prohibitions on their members.

  many are far more tolerant of the lgbt community and a few even make the awkward attempt to square the fact of evolution with their faith.. please note that i'm saying some, not all.. so i suppose it's fair to say that differing forms of christianity can be better or worse for individuals, families and the wider community.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  I am not a believer, but I do think there are versions of Christianity that are far less destructive than Jehovah's Witnesses and I think some people need and want religion in their lives, for them there are much better choices. Religion can be something positive, if it helps you to be a better person, if it give you emotional support, a sense of belonging, a community, a moral framework.

  The JWs may have gotten a few things right, but they are so wrong in so many other areas they have become a negative, destructive influence in the lives of everyone they touch, in my opinion.

  Teaching that you have the only path to salvation is just plain wrong. Of course everyone thinks their own religion is the best, but other religions don't lead you to gleefully look forward to the violent destruction of the majority of mankind, simply because they don't subscribe to a flavor of Christianity. Belonging to a religion that fosters that kind of thinking is to lose a bit of your own humanity, your compassion and your humility. Teaching a literal hell for those not in your select group is just as bad. Many churches do not teach a literal hell.

  The Watchtower places too much importance on doctrinal points that they believe only they get correct, when the bible says that the primary way to identify that a group is a true follower of Chtlrist is that they have love among themselves. When was the last time you heard a talk on showing love to others, or helping those in your own congregation? Instead the emphasis is strictly on the preaching work. People going through difficulties are criticized for missing meetings, there is no compassion. Those who miss enough meetings are dropped and shunned, as if they had committed a major sin. Is that love?

  The early Christians were allowed to disagree, they were not disfellowshipped for it. They didn't have a rigid, grueling schedule of requirements to meet to gain salvation, they were saved by Christ's sacrifice. They weren't constantly made to feel guilty for minor transgressions or living a normal life. Other religions are not this way. If you miss services for some reason you are welcomed back, not made to feel guilty because you were the victim of difficult circumstances.

  Other religions have joyful services, meaningful sermons of a rational length, beautiful music that is uplifting, and enjoyable fellowship. The Jehovah's Witnesses have hours of dry, joyless meetings, mind numbingly boring talks, and rote question and answer sessions where there is only one right answer, the one you are given. No room is made for self expression, for people expressing their individual gifts, for joy. Women are marginalized and given no real voice.

  Instead of focusing on doctrine, look for a religion that helps you to be your best self. You could argue doctrine all day long, it won't make you a better person. Look for a group that doesn't force you to ignore scientific fact, there are quite a few of them. There are churches with no doctrine, they just allow you to be a Christian, imagine that. I think that is what religion has to become, if it is to stay meaningful in people's lives. We are not living in bible times, we can't pretend that science hasn't advanced and that we don't know we evolved, we can't pretend women are property anymore. The best religions acknowledge these realities while still trying to meet the spiritual needs of their members.
• 
  23

  Non JW friends don't understand

  by kozmo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it never ceases to amaze me that your personal friends have no clue what it is like to have been one.

  i was speaking with a friend the other day about having been a jw.

  she said, oh i have a dear friend of 30 years who is one and she is so nice!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LisaRose

  I agree, It's really hard for someone who was never in a cult to understand what it was like, how much it affects you, even years after leaving. They may think the JWs are weird, but still just a religion you can choose to leave like any other. Most people think of cults as people wearing weird clothes and living in communes, they cannot comprehend that the nice looking, friendly couple at their door have had been systematically conditioned to believe that eight men in New York speak for God and must be obeyed, even if it results in shunning their own children or even letting them die by refusing a life saving blood transfusion. Most people just can't comprehend how this can happen to normal, intelligent people.

  I have been out for sixteen years, I have successfully moved on in my life, and I am lucky to be only minimally impacted by the religion at this point, yet I still occasionally find myself falling into some of the black and white thinking, the negativity and alienation I felt as a JW. I have met a few people that get it, if they have a relative in the group or were raised as a Mormon or other cult type religion, or people like HB, who have taken an interest (and thank you for that HB!). It's this ignorance of the dangers of cult mind control that allows groups like this to flourish, people don't see how destructive it is, they can get sucked in before they realize. Fortunately they are losing their influence in more industrialized countries, but they are still growing and a danger worldwide, and of course there are millions still stuck inside.

  I think it's important to keep the conversation going, to keep educating people about the destructive nature of cult mind control. Don't be ashamed of your JW past, it wasn't your fault. Tell people what happened, how much it affected your life, how hard it was to leave. The more people know about this cancer the harder it is for them to get and maintain members.