Posts by Dogpatch

6

latest CO visit...

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

latest circuit overseer visit (4/6/01).

dear randy.

i had to just take this time right now to give you another example of the low quality of the teaching within the borg and its also shows how desperate they are.. my sister went to the circuit assembly this past weekend and on the needs of the circuit portion this is what the circuit overseer (gibson) brought out:.

Dogpatch

Latest Circuit Overseer Visit (4/6/01)
Dear Randy
I had to just take this time right now to give you another example of the low quality of the teaching within the borg and its also shows how desperate they are.
My sister went to the circuit assembly this past weekend and on the needs of the circuit portion this is what the circuit overseer (Gibson) brought out:
He said that here in the U.S. 10% (approx 100,000) of the publishers are not turning in their "field service" time.
He then said that the "apostates" tell the elders that turning in time is not scriptural. (We know that it is not scriptural).
He then said that he was going to read 3 scriptures and told the audience to "Connect the Dots."
Brace yourself for this:
First he read Proverbs 25:25 which says: Like cold water to a weary soul is good news from a distant land.
Then Matthew 10:42: And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward.
Lastly Matthew 25:34,35: Then the king will say to those on his right, come you who are blessed by my father, take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.
He then went on to say that these scriptures represent the command to turn in "field service" time. If you don't, then you are like the apostates.
They truly are desperate to keep people following their stupid little man made rules and they continue to use the word apostate to try and scare people to death.
I just had to tell you this story to show that even here in New York City the quality of their teaching is so low it doesn't even make sense any more. This circuit assembly took place at the Albemarle Theatre in Flatbush, Brooklyn, New York City.
Also at this circuit assembly on the Saturday there was such low attendance that they closed off the entire upper section of the balcony. In past years even on Saturday it would be virtually filled. On this day there were only just over 900 persons in attendance. But as you know some people always sit in certain spots.
They confined everyone who was on the balcony to sit in just the lower part which is only about five rows. Many were disgusted with this because the upper part is more comfortable and has more room for legs and coats etc. They did this of course to try and make all sit close together to give the appearance that the hall was not as empty as it really was. They refused to open the upper section until later on. One sister who would always sit in the upper part broke her ribs because she sat in the lower part as they directed but when the opened the upper part as she was walking up the steps to get to her regular seat she fell down 7 of nine steps that are on the lower part of the balcony and broke 3 ribs. The fact is that her regular seat is only 2 steps from the landing if you can picture it. So really if she had been allowed to sit in her regular seat in the upper part of the balcony, this would not have happened. I know this sister personally since I was a child and I also know from having been an attendant exactly where she would always sit. Well she is now in the hospital because the borg wanted to make a show of numbers that weren't really there.
Also it is interesting that 2 other sisters blatantly refused to even sit in the lower part of the balcony as directed. They stood up on their feet during the whole meeting until they opened up the upper part of the balcony. One married couple vociferously protested against the attendants about the situation. Also when they did open up the upper part of the balcony this was in the middle of a talk but even though the person was giving a talk, there was a mass exodus of people changing their seats and walking up to the more comfortable upper balcony. Also one bro who is an "elder" showed how he only cared about protecting the borg from a lawsuit by taking pictures of the steps where the sister fell right after the accident. They also started calling bros and sis out from the meeting who saw the accident to take a statement from them. Yeah, they really care about the poor sister (in her 60's) who now has 3 broken ribs and is in the hospital.
You know, the Bible shows in the gospel accounts that when Jesus gathered people together to instruct them, his first concern was for their comfort.
Well Randy, another pitiful story out of the borg.
Charles

39

RE: Ozzie's post on "Restrictions"

by had_enough in

jw
friends

i have a question about restrictions on df'd persons wanting to come back to the org.. i finally joined here on mar 26, after reading posts for about a month, with telling my story first.

what moved me to join in was reading ozzie's post on mar.23(i think), about "restrictions" regarding reproofs, probations, and df'ing.

i appreciated his comments and was so glad when he brought the subject up.

Dogpatch

It's all about parenting.
1. Religions are an extension of the family.
2. Religious leaders become surrogate parents.
3. If religious leaders have no faith in their people's motives, or in God's motives, their views are harsh and manipulative towards their children. The same as with real parents and their children.
4. Jesus' way in the NT was radically different than legalistic parents, who must make sure all things are done just right. Jesus was not concerned with that, but with personal growth of love and maturity:

"Rules" for Christian Living
by Randall Watters

Commenting on the intrigue of human relationships and the trials men place on one another, Watchtower Circuit Overseer Floyd Kite once jokingly told me that "half of us are here to test the other half." As a devout Jehovah's Witness and an organization man, I was determined to be the "half" that tested the others. I kept close watch on other's conduct, as a Bethel elder and overseer.

Actually, the world is full of "spiritual" policemen, but the efforts put forth by such ones to control the lives of others is often less than welcome. Yet some will say, "Doesn't the Bible have certain things to say about our conduct and our outward appearance?" Yes! Are these to be considered as laws, or just helpful suggestions? How far is a Christian to go in counseling others? How do we view Christians who go to war, or who vote or hold public office? Let a former "policeman" give you some ideas.

The concept of living under Law is not bad in itself. Yahweh established a perfect Law with Moses and the nation of Israel. Jesus later came, not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it (Matt. 5:17). That meant that the laws contained therein were not wrong, outdated or prudish. Jesus came, not to say that the Law was too hard to keep, but to establish an even more exacting standard. This he did when he summed up the Law in two commands: "You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind, and soul, and you must love your neighbor as yourself." He says, "On these two commandments depend the whole Law...." (Matt. 5:20; 22:39,40)

Jesus' death on the cross released us from a yoke of servitude to a written law (Col. 2:13-15). Yet, ironically, he promoted more absolute standards. He went a step further and clarified how one could fall short of God's standards by what is in one's heart, even if outwardly obeying the Law. In other words, Jesus revealed the principles undergirding the Law as being the standards to strive for. By teaching such a perfect standard of conduct, Jesus advocated a quality of faith and commitment that is actually unattainable for fallen humans, were it not for divine grace.

For instance: According to Jesus, not only is the ACT of adultery a sin, but the very passion of lust is a sin! (Matt. 5:27,28) Not only is stealing a sin, but coveting your neighbor's belongings or his wife in your heart is sin. Not only is marriage sacred, but getting a divorce can make one an adulterer in God's eyes! (Matt. 5:31,32) Not only is bringing harm to your brother a sin, but calling him a fool will make you liable to Gehenna! (Matt. 5:21,22) Additionally, if you are insulted, you should turn the other cheek. If a soldier asks you to walk a mile, walk two with him. If another asks for your overcoat, give it to them! You are to pray for your enemies and do good for those who persecute you (Matt. 5:38-40, 43-46). Who can then say that the Christian has it easier than the Old Testament Jew?

The difference is, God has given us the new birth and a new nature (1 Peter 1:23). A "seed" of righteousness is planted in us when we are born from above. God comes to live IN us (through the Holy Spirit), enabling us to partake of his holiness (Romans 8:9-11). Jesus made this possible through his death and resurrection (Heb. 9:11-15). We are redeemed and declared righteous. Jesus then takes that "seed" in us and forms it into a mature Christian, thereby sanctifying us. He trusts us to walk in that new nature that we now possess. We die to the old, corrupted nature of the fallen flesh (2 Peter 1:3,4). Were it not for this new birth and its accompanying grace, our condemnation would be greater than under the Law of Moses, for Jesus' standards are more exacting and comprehensive than the Mosaic Law. Jesus said we are to be perfect (Matt. 5:48).

We can only hope to be "perfect" if we walk in the new nature (Gal. 5:16,17). We must be born again (John 3:3,5,7). How common is it to see the old nature of religious men and women trying to reach some artificial standard of conduct laid out for them by a religion or church, thinking that by doing so, they are somehow holy. Yet, the apostle Paul makes it plain that if we seek to justify ourselves by following laws or rules, we are still under condemnation, and Christ is useless to us (Gal. 2:15-21). All of the holy acts of all religious men are as filthy rags to God, unless they are performed by those whom he has regenerated by the Spirit (Isa. 64:6). It is the Spirit in us enabling us to do true works of righteousness, not our old nature.

Now the stage is set for comprehending the difficult sayings of Jesus, especially in his Sermon on the Mount.

Christ does not make concessions for our weakness by lowering his standards. He expects us to allow the indwelling Spirit to dominate our lives. To the extent this happens, we are able to follow his perfect standards.

While Jesus makes no concessions to his standards, he is rich in mercy and forgiveness when we fall short of them. He knows we will sin many times along the way (Heb. 4:15,16). He points us towards perfection. We are to keep our eyes on what he wants us to be at all times; not on some lesser, more attainable goal. Yet, he knows that we will grow old and die without attaining perfection (Phil. 3:12-14).

This can be most frustrating at times! It means that we will never reach a plateau in our Christianity. The "mountain" is higher than we can climb, and God has not set up "camps" on the slopes for us to live in; yet he allows us to make wayside rest stops to refresh ourselves and then continue on. Then, upon Christ's return, his work in us is completed as we are transformed into perfection as in the twinkling of an eye (1 Thes. 4:16,17; 1 Cor. 15:51-53).

So, just what part does the church play in making rules for Christians?

God's Work, Not Ours
In the realm of Christian religions, there are 3 approaches used in advocating standards of conduct:

(1) The strict approach - a code of conduct is laid out as "necessary," and it is strict enough that only a few Christians will follow it, producing an appearance of righteousness.

(2) The merciful approach - a middle-of-the-road code of conduct is promoted that is workable (attainable) for most or all believers.

(3) The perfection approach - Jesus' perfect standards are advocated, which are really principles to be followed from the heart rather than laws.

Some churches, and all of the cults, choose method #1; many churches choose #2.

However, not only do the first two approaches fall short of Jesus' moral precepts, but the system designed for the few (#1) condemns the many and exalts the few; whereas in actuality, if RULES are to be followed, ALL are actually condemned because ALL will fall short of perfect obedience to those rules! System #1, therefore, provides a false sense of security. It is also substandard to the third approach.

System #2 is unbiblical as well. To water down the principles Christ gave and to replace them with a substandard law code is not acceptable to God. He will not tolerate sin, nor lesser standards; that is why Jesus had to die for our sins. He will only work within the perfect approach.

As Christians, we expect God to mold us and to perfect our conduct and our character. We cannot by ourselves mute the power of sin within us (nor can others do it for us!). The typical "religious" way of coping with our flesh can be likened to monitoring our outward conduct so as to look holy. This was the game of the Pharisees, yet inside they were rotten to the core (Matt. 23:27). Though it may seem a noble cause to try and alter our own heart's desires, it cannot be done through living by a law code, whether it be strict or lenient.

So we drop the law code idea. We see Jesus' lofty standards for what they are and we realize that we will never obey them perfectly, at least in this life. That's why we are saved by grace! So we quit following rules and allow the grace of the Holy Spirit to do his work in us. We learn to become more like children as regards humility and simplicity (Matt. 18:3). We accept our inability to sanctify ourselves. Prayers are offered for the Holy Spirit to work changes within us, giving us a new heart; a pure heart. We are praying for a miracle; something that cannot be accomplished through obedience to laws and rules. God softens and shapes our hearts to the extent that we allow the Holy Spirit to work within us.

The Symptom Warriors
Chances are that you will come to understand these principles of grace versus law before some of your policemen - type friends do. Most of the time these "symptom warriors" mean well. They believe they can legislate spiritual growth. (Certainly life would be boring without someone to tell you how to dress and what movies to go see, what music to listen to, etc.)

The desire of the symptom warrior is to change your conduct so as to be more acceptable to God. Sort of like the Watchtower approach, right? Most of us have played this game at one time or another.

However, since we cannot really see the hearts of others or accurately perceive where they are in their relationship with the Lord, we often observe and react to outward symptoms. We are ever ready to point out symptoms to our brother that indicate his walk with the Lord is "not what it should be." Because we lack the faith that God controls this process of perfecting his saints, we suggest to our brother that if he would only correct the symptom, his heart will change for the better. We believe that if "Mark would only stop smoking, he would not feel so guilty and could approach the Lord easier." "If Joan would quit watching soap operas, she would love the Lord more and her marriage would improve." "If Johnny would quit watching Music Television (MTV), he could read the Bible more." Seldom do we stop and think that we are approaching the whole thing backwards. Why not get them interested in the things of God, and let God do the work? If you can't get them interested in spiritual things, stripping them of their fun certainly won't work! Besides, we may be reading the symptoms wrong in the first place.

But wasn't Jesus very strict as to what we can and can't do? Didn't he make many statements regarding the living of a sanctified lifestyle?

Misunderstanding Jesus' Words
When we consider the "difficult sayings" of Jesus regarding moral issues and our conduct towards others, we need to take several things into account. The setting, context, and intent of his words are vital. Yet we must not explain away the obvious moral messages there, reducing their impact by our misinterpretation of the passage. When Jesus says to love our enemies and to pray for those persecuting us, it is obvious that we are to be free of hatred towards persecutors of the faith, even though that may seem difficult or seemingly impossible to us under certain circumstances (Matt. 5:44-48). And, just because we can't quite live it perfectly, we should not change the meaning of Jesus' words, but allow his grace to cover us. This is the whole point - there are many areas of life in which we will find we cannot live up to Jesus' standards. Rather than changing the standards, though, we learn to live a life of falling short while the sacrifice of our Lord frees us from condemnation and guilt (Rom. 8:1). He works in our lives with a view to perfection (1 John 1:8-10; James 3:2).

Hard Decisions
While Jesus speaks out against lying, fraud, thievery, fornication, etc., there are some areas of conduct and responsibility in which he is silent. This is true with issues such as self-defense, going to war, involvement in community affairs, etc. Jesus does not tell us whether or not we should consider going to war as a part of our obligation to defend our brothers or our nation, nor does he tell us to stay away from governmental affairs or political office (though he does tell us not to put our trust in such things). He does not speak out against self-defense (though he does speak about our reaction to threats of aggression or challenge--Matt. 5:39. For a more complete discussion of the issue of self-defense, politics and war, see war - the chapter on "War, Evil and Self-Defense"

Though the Bible says we are transferred into the kingdom of God even now (Col. 1:13), we must also function in this fallen world, the kingdom of Satan (Eph. 6:12). The two kingdoms are at odds with each other, yet we must function in both. On issues related to secular obligations and supporting the government, Paul's words in Romans chapter 13 can help us:

Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. (Romans 13:1)

While God has established the secular authorities so that there is a measure of order and justice in this fallen world, they are not a part of his perfect kingdom. At times, they are directly opposed to the interests of his kingdom, and we must obey God as ruler rather than men when our loyalties divide us (Acts 5:29). While this is sometimes a black and white issue, such as when a government requires us to bow down to its leaders or to stop reading the Bible, etc., it more often lies in the gray areas. Such decisions should be very carefully weighed.

We may say, "What would Jesus have done?" Well, Jesus advocated his own lifestyle. It is interesting to note that he made no concessions for other lifestyles. Because of his higher calling, it was not proper for him to concern himself with the affairs of government or secular obligations. But note that the reason is the higher calling; NOT that such concerns are wrong! He also did not concern himself with having a place to sleep or what to eat tomorrow! The lifestyle he advocates is not lived by many persons, to be sure. Yet there are many brothers in Christ who advocate that we follow PART of Jesus' lifestyle, yet are silent as to living the rest of it! Isn't that rather inconsistent? What it boils down to is this - Jesus standards are absolute; if you are reaching out for his lifestyle, then do not teach the need to embrace part of it and reject the rest, or you, too, will be a hypocrite. At the same time, love your brother who is aspiring towards a life like Christ's, and do not judge him. If he advocates going to war and you strongly disagree because Jesus would not have done this, ask yourself if you are living the rest of Jesus' lifestyle yet. Are you continually preaching the Word, allowing yourself little rest, and staying up till the dawn in prayer at times? Have you foregone marriage for a higher calling? Do you have no place to lay your head, and no steady income? Yet to use the argument, "Do what Jesus would have done" suggests that we should apply this across the board.

We do seek to do what Jesus would have done, of course; but a lifestyle is something you grow into, and help from above is necessary along the way. To tell a person just to "do what Jesus would have done" may be the right answer, but you had better be ready to help that person understand why Jesus would have done certain things, and that they can only be done through the help of the Holy Spirit. The individual needs to know that we cannot change our pattern of life all in one day, either; God is willing to patiently work with us.

On Giving Advice
Giving advice to a Christian friend is not something to take lightly! It is better to point to what Jesus said or did that bears on a subject, rather than telling them what to do in a given situation. Let them make their decision according to their faith and commitment. To insist that others follow certain standards of conduct such as dress codes, movie or music preferences, types of recreation, business decisions, etc. means that we are making our own standards for another to follow, rather than allowing them to make a personal moral decision based upon their understanding of God's perfect standards. God is the only one qualified to give us laws to follow, which he did in the case of the Ten Commandments. Yet, no one could keep them! Therefore, God did away with law, and established a better arrangement. Do we have the right to introduce laws when God has done away with law? (Gal. 2:16-21) To do so puts us under a curse (Gal. 3:10)!

Following rules for Christian living is of the flesh; letting the indwelling Spirit live through you is true Christianity. Paul says,

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Romans 8:15,9)

We need to have the faith that if our brother loves God, he will seek to walk in the Spirit. If he seeks the things of the Spirit, God will perfect his heart. OUR part is to encourage our brother or sister in their walk so that this love for God will be there in the first place. As we encourage and strengthen the faith of our brothers and sisters, they come to love God more, and this seed of love is nurtured by the Holy Spirit.

The DEADLY Sins
We seem to have been taught that some sins are much worse than others. After all, adultery or murder are far more serious than lying or stealing, aren't they?

Not so, according to the Word of God. While more visible sins may have a greater negative effect than others, all sin is deadly, in terms of its effect on our relationship with God. God hates sin, because it separates us from communion with him - that is the bottom line. We were created in his image, and he cannot stomach our self-degradation. It is like seeing part of himself marred and distorted.

If all sin, including the "secret" sins of envy, lust, covetousness and slothfulness are evil, then why do many "symptom warriors" jump on Christians who fall into the more visible sins, but then wink at the secret sins? Usually because in their hearts, these "warriors" have a distorted view of sin. They do not understand that the whole issue is not outward appearances, but maintaining a relationship with God, and God hates secret sins every bit as much as the visible sins. Those who practice sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. Yet, the Christian who falls into sin can continually come before the throne of grace for forgiveness and restoration. Yes, even the "symptom warriors" can be forgiven of their secret sins!

How Rules Affect Your Flesh
From the first year of our life, it is a built-in mechanism of the sin nature that we will rebel. By far the most common word first learned by toddlers is "No!" Why "no" and not "Yes"? Because our flesh is selfish, it wants its way or it will pout, lash out or seek revenge.

Before we learn and really believe that certain practices are morally wrong, we may not suffer a guilty conscience. But once we believe they are wrong, our flesh becomes reactive and through its natural rebelliousness it prompts us to seek the pleasure of sin all the more. Things that we view as sinful (whether or not they really are in God's eyes) will titillate the flesh when we do them, not just because the act may bring pleasure to the body, but because rebellion is a fallen pleasure in itself (Pro. 9:17; Job 31:26-28).

This can be seen in its extreme form in ritual Satanism, where everything holy is blasphemed; pleasure being derived from the very act of blaspheming God. While that may sound revolting, the same sin factor is at work in all of us. It's just that some of us allow it to take us farther along the road to degradation than others.

Though we have died to the old sin nature if we are born again, the flesh can still plague us in the same manner if we fall under law once more. We need to understand the principle of being set free from the endless cycle of sin and guilt, by living in the Spirit:

For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. (Rom. 7:5,6)

If you have a tendency to put rules on other Christians where the Bible does not give rules, you might be surprised to know that doing so is like trying to cure the sick with the AIDS virus! There are far more effective ways of promoting good conduct in others. Study the methods of Jesus in relating to others, and you will have success.

2

new WT video clip

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

a 2 minute version of the paducah, ky airing of the wt's pr spin is up!

now see it on realvideo!

or you can see the whole 10-minute job.

Dogpatch

A 2 minute version of the Paducah, KY airing of the WT's PR spin is up! Now see it on RealVideo! Or you can see the whole 10-minute job. What do you think? Are they for real?
http://www.randytv.com

4

WT official video response online-molestation

by Dogpatch in

http://www.randytv.com/.

get with it and say what u think about j.r. brown!.

downtown mr. brown kicks butt!

Dogpatch

http://www.randytv.com/
Get with it and say what U think about J.R. Brown!
Downtown Mr. Brown kicks butt!

White House, religion and Jws

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

white house defends religion program.

by laura meckler.

.c the associated press.

Dogpatch

White House Defends Religion Program

By LAURA MECKLER
.c The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House's point man on involving religious groups
in government programs issued a spirited defense of the program Wednesday,
taking on critics who have raised a host of objections to the idea.

``Compassionate conservatism warmly welcomes godly people back into the
public square while respecting and upholding - without fail - benevolent
constitutional traditions,'' John DiIulio, head of the Office of Faith-Based
and Community Initiatives, said in remarks prepared for the National
Association of Evangelicals in Dallas. A copy of the speech was made
available in Washington.

In his most extensive public rebuttal to date, DiIulio defended the rights of
religious groups, even if they receive government money, to make hiring
decisions based on religion.

He said people who don't want government money to go to religious groups
outside the mainstream, such as the Nation of Islam, must realize they are
not entitled to that kind of veto power. And organizations who fear
government money will corrupt their religious core, he said, ``ought to
simply opt out'' of the program.

In 1996, Congress first wrote ``charitable choice'' into the welfare law,
allowing overtly religious groups to compete for government grants to help
welfare recipients. Until then, religious groups had to form secular
affiliates, such as Catholic Charities or Lutheran Social Services, to apply
for money.

Now President Bush wants to extend charitable choice to social programs
across the government.

Churches and other religious institutions are exempt from anti-discrimination
laws that bar bias based on religion, meaning they can legally make hiring
decisions based on religion. Under charitable choice, these groups maintain
that exemption, even if they receive government money.

Civil libertarians who believe the effort is an unconstitutional mingling of
church and state have focused on discrimination. ``That's the softest
unconstitutional underbelly of this whole scheme,'' Barry Lynn, executive
director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, said in
a recent interview.

On Wednesday, DiIulio defended the right of churches to discriminate.

DiIulio said getting government money shouldn't require an organization to
hire someone of a different faith but admitted that's ``perhaps the single
most contentious aspect'' of the program. That, he said, would be akin to
forcing Planned Parenthood to hire abortion supporters and opponents.

He said most of the organizations that are probable participants in the
program already hire or accept volunteer help from anyone willing. ``Theirs
is typically an all-hands-on-deck world,'' he said.

Others argue that the program is flawed because it could lead to
nonmainstream religions getting money. Most recently, in an interview with
Beliefnet.com, the Rev. Jerry Falwell said he wouldn't want the Church of
Scientology, the Jehovah's Witnesses or Muslims to get government grants.

``I don't see how any can be turned down because of their radical and
unpopular views. I don't know where that would take us,'' Falwell said.

DiIulio, responding to similar worries, said government will use performance
standards to determine which religious groups get money, just as it does for
secular groups.

``The Constitution gives taxpayers no right to insist that government
decisions, including procurement decisions, will not offend their moral
judgments,'' he said.

AP-NY-03-07-01 1949EST

1

The Shadow Within

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

people raised in authoritarian religions that have laws and rules that are bigoted or prejudiced towards women and other races and religions are often hypocrits.

especially is the dirty old man who is part of a church and "stands up against" issues, yet is the worst sort of person.

man admits posting abortion threat online.

Dogpatch

People raised in authoritarian religions that have laws and rules that are bigoted or prejudiced towards women and other races and religions are often hypocrits. Especially is the dirty old man who is part of a church and "stands up against" issues, yet is the worst sort of person. Example below:

Man admits posting abortion threat online
March 9, 2001
Web posted at: 1:42 PM EST (1842 GMT)

LEGAL RESOURCES

Latest Legal News

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FindLaw Consumer Center Select a topic Bankruptcy Discrimination Divorce Estate Planning Landlord-Tenant Personal Injury Taxes
CAMDEN, New Jersey (AP) -- A man pleaded guilty Friday to offering a $1.5 million bounty over the Internet to anyone who killed an abortion provider.

Nicholas Morency, 30, also pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography, which was found on his computer during the investigation.

Authorities said Morency created a Web site in 1999 suggesting an abortion provider he identified by name as a suitable target. The site came down two days after it was reported to the FBI.

"There was no evidence he had the financial wherewithal to pay the bounty," U.S. Attorney Robert J. Cleary said. "But the crime is a serious one."

Morency could get a year in prison and a $100,000 fine for intimidating an abortion provider. He could receive five years and a $250,000 fine on the child pornography charge. Sentencing was set for June 22.

HOW IT OFTEN HAPPENS PT. 2

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

from the sexual abuse survivors log:.

http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/abuseguestlog.htm.

date: .

Dogpatch

FROM THE SEXUAL ABUSE SURVIVORS LOG:
http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/abuseguestlog.htm

Date:
Wednesday, March 07, 2001
Time:
11:06 PM
Comments
Hello.

I was raped by my father my entire life, until the age of approximately 18. He was not a jw, but an athiest. My mother was Irish Catholic. At the age of 18, I started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses.

After 3 yrs. of studying, I was baptised, having then a daughter about a year old. I had no idea that when I took her over to my mother's to babysit, my dad and younger brother were seriously sexual abusing her. Because of my father, I had an extreme problem with memory. I just didn't know.

One reason I joined Jehovah's Witnesses is to find security, peace and hope. I thought I had found it - Spiritual Paradise and all. Jump forward some years, I was studying with my brother who was about 13, my father had died and I felt sorry for him. Unknown to me, my little brother sodomized my little girl from her ages of 6 - 9. He was a teenager at the time. He has confirmed this to me and his own wife.

I never let my daughter go to anyone's house without first trying to know the parents. Thus, put to rest the idea that *you* take care of your child and *I* didn't. I did. I just didn't know - as thousands of parents say the same thing.

A Ministerial Servant with 5 children was in our cong. and his daughter made friends with my daughter. I visited over their home on several different occasions - their daughter was over our house a lot. The Ministerial Servant sexually abused my daughter around the age of 12. Later, when this came to light, his own daughter had already written a letter to her congregation about the years of incest by her father.

All this was brought to the attention of the elders in the congregation we were attending. They refused to do anything about it since the paedophile was in another congregation, another state. They would not even deem to call those elderss and say "Hey, you might have a problem in your congregation." They said it was not their concern. I remember - I argued this point.

I called the other congregation, spoke with the Presiding Overseer. He told me about the daughter's letter accusing her father of incest. I told him about my daughter. He acted as if he believed me and said this man would be brought in for questioning. Two witnesses. He said they called the Watchtower Society on how to handle the matter.

The wife of the Ministerial Servant in the meanwhile, told the elders that if they said the word "incest" on her property, she would sue for slander. The elders backed down, the Ministerial Servant was never spoken to about the incest/molestation of my daughter and his own daughter. The PO told me this - they couldn't take the chance of being sued.

Many repercussions since that time. Enough for now. I have been a devout Jehovah's Witness for 30 years. I have now stopped going to meetings - but I don't smoke, have 2 glasses of wine a week, don't celebrate the holidays, love my husband, and have committed no wrong except for the human frailties. In other words, I'm no more perfect than the next person.

I am writing about these things more in response to the commenters who defend the Watchtower Society at all costs. So did I - and I and they hurt my daughter in return for my loyalty.

Not a fair exchange. She's worth more than the concept of keeping the congregation's reputation clean. Any child is worth more than that.

I was "suggested" to keep silent for the good of the congregation several different times by Circuit Overseers. I did - at great expense to myself. I finally got tired and still carried my anger as my constant companion after 10 years.

Our children are more important than pawns, grasshoppers, insignificant in the war between Jehovah and Satan. Our children are our loves of life - the next human beings on our earth. We should care for them more than mere grasshoppers.

21

HOW IT OFTEN HAPPENS PT. 3

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

from the sexual abuse guest log:.

http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/abuseguestlog.htm.

date: .

Dogpatch

FROM THE SEXUAL ABUSE GUEST LOG:
http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/abuseguestlog.htm

Date:
Saturday, March 03, 2001
Time:
04:50 PM
Comments
I use to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses about three years ago but was disfellowshipped. While growing up in this religion I actually got to see how corrupt it really is. When I was thirteen years old, a follower of the Jehovah's Witnesses inappropriately tried to fondle me, when I came forward to my mom and the elders about this incident they wanted to see what I was wearing at the time this all occured. The mans wife was called to the meeting with the elders. Doesn't that seem strange that the actual person who did this wasn't even approached by the elders, but had given a message through his wife that I misunderstood him,and that he was just trying to "tickle" me. I'm sorry but I didn't know that tickling someone involved putting your hands up their shorts and into their underwear, and going under their shirt to do so as well. In another instance not too long after my disfellowshipping, my best friend who of course was not suppose to talk to me, came to my computer class and got me out because she needed to talk to me. She proceeded to tell me that the brother that her mom married about four months prior came into her room the night before and raped her. She could tell that he was drunk as well. Strangely though her mom sleeping in the same house heard nothing at all going on. She didn't want to tell the guidance counselors at our school because she knew her mom would take his side and believe that she was making all of this up. Well I didn't let her go without telling. I went to the counselors and made her tell them. The police were called and H.R.S. My friend was taken to the emergency room for an evaluation in which they found traces of her step fathers semen, also in the underwear that she was wearing at the time. He was arrested and disfellowshipped from the congregations. To my surprise though my friends mother continued to stay with this man and visited him in JAIL while he was serving his time for this crime. She also told my friend that she should forgive him because it was a mistake and that she was going to continue her marriage with this piece of garbage. As of today, her "step-dad" is out of jail and has written a letter of apology to the elders and has been reinstated. Does that make any sense? He's a child molester, why is he welcome into an organization that claims to be soooo perfect.

HOW IT OFTEN HAPPENS PT. 1

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

from the sexual abuse guest log:.

http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/abuseguestlog.htm.

date: .

Dogpatch

FROM THE sEXUAL aBUSE gUEST lOG:
http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/abuseguestlog.htm

Date:
Thursday, March 01, 2001
Time:
06:51 PM
Comments
Back in 1996 upon return from the Thursday night meeting my third daughter told me of something that had happened behind the KH that night after meeting. The son of one of the elders in this congregation had forced her down on the ground and put his hands down her panties. There were other children in the area but either they didn't see clearly in the dark or didn't understand what was going on. I frankly didn't know what to think and probably would have blown it off if her younger sister hadn't come in and told me that this young brother (who also lives next door to us) had been doing the same thing to her when she would over at their home. Another daughter came in then and told me that the boy had grabbed her breast that night also, hard enough to cause her pain. I immediately called the KH knowing the family would still be there. The boy's father, the elder, answered the phone. I told him what the girls had told me and he assured me that he was very sorry and he would take care of things. I felt that the safety of my four daughters would be taken into consideration and the boy would be disciplined. (I did not call the police because the boy was only 14.) Well, on Sunday morning during the WT study this boy was not only commenting but he was running the mic's. I knew that there had been nothing done about this. I called the PO and asked him about it. He said that the elder had told him about my call but didn't think there was any truth to it so nothing had been done. I asked the elder why no one had called us to see if this thing was true...we had three "witnesses" to this. He said that he would look into it and knew that I wasn't just trying to stir up trouble in the congregation since I hadn't called the police. I told him the only reason I hadn't called the police was because the boy was a juvenile. Two elders came to our home and talked to my girls. But as far as I know nothing was done in the congregation. I was assured that the boy would stay away from my girls and when he saw them outside he would go back inside. I had really bad feelings about this because I felt that my girls and their feelings had not been validated by the elder body. In fact I was to discover that this boys grandfather, also an elder, told someone that it had been my daughter that had rubbed her privates up on his grandson and that we were a family of liars. Shortly after I heard this I had a visit from the CO and the PO, I mentioned this to the CO. I was astounded when I found out that the CO was unaware of any of this. I guess I had thought the CO would be aware of any judicial matters that had occurred in the congregation...either he wasn't made aware or no judicial action had been taken. I also had received a phone call from another elder who had found a note in his car during all this naming this young brother and asking that the previous CO "do something" about this young brother. This elder wasn't aware of any of it but I was told the CO refused to do anything about it since the accused has the right to face his accuser and there had to be two witnesses to any occurrence. I have since left the organization, though I have not written the DA letter. The friend who told he about being called a family of liars has too left the organization...his family was severely stumbled when this same young man was caught stealing pornography from a local business they were cleaning...it may not have been found out if the video tape hadn't tripped the alarm and the police showed up. The friend begged the police to forget about it, it had been a mistake, but he figured it would be taken care of in the congregation. The boy's father "stepped down" for one meeting and the boy had to give a talk in the TMS on the evils of pornography. What I see here is a pedophile in the making...the young brother is 19 now, in good standing as far as I know, and in contact with many young children in the congregation and community. My girls are now safe...but what of all those who don't know what he is and what he may become?

12

geek brothers-THE NOTE

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

good grief!.

does anyone see the comedy in the brother under the note discussion?.

sure, jws may never receive instructions to search the trash, but every cong.

Dogpatch

Randy wasn't even in the locker room, he wouldn't go in because he saw FRED HALL bending over waiting for someone to come in!
AACK!!