there are a few here that say we are not being fair and that we wrongfully bash the witnesses.. simply prove that the religion is not correct by any standard..
The printed pages tell it like it is:
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
You got false predictions, doctrinal failures, medical disasters, wacky science, historical blunders, blinking lights and worse.
For their entire 130 year existence!
And ALL as, "food from God", Himself.
heh
Vinny
time to spicy up this joint wid sum conspiracy, been too boring around here... here u go.... http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=page.view&pageid=105764.
.
awwwwwww
the poor little cry babies are still sad because Obama won.
waaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaa
Hey, I see our old friend Burns is here too. What a surprise.
Hey Burnedships, only THREE AND A HALF YEARS TO GO FOR OBAMA.
And then he'll probably get FOUR MORE YEARS.
All the poor litlle Obama whiner babies. Life must be very sad for ya.
Let uncle Vinny find his smallest violin and play for you.
Hey Burns and all the little crybabies here, maybe you and Sean Hannity can cry in each others arms and comfort each other for three and a half more years. That's not too long before he probably wins four more years and you can comfort each other in hotel romms then too.
Poor lil babies. I'm so sad for you.
I'm thinkin of you and playing my smallest violin for ya all.
Vinny
in a recent thread, i was basically called out in this manner.. here is part of the quote:.
mean no disrespect with the following but i have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen?
did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you?
Quote: "WE DON'T NEED A CORRECT ANSWER! THIS IS NOT THE WATCHTOWER STUDY! FORTY DIFFERENT OPINIONS CAN ALL BE RIGHT! AND NO ONE IS TELLING US OTHERWISE."
**** Which is why I thought some were unnecessarily harsh with Lola's specific point of view here. Her suggestion makes a lot of sense to a lot of readers as well.
I agree that this has ended up in a better direction that where it was going. A variety of opinions from a diverse group of people located from all over the world.
Now can we break out the beer summit program yet?
Vinny
tens of thousands of jehovah's witnesses meet in france(afp) 43 minutes ago.
paris tens of thousands of jehovah's witnesses gathered on saturday in cities across france for an annual international gathering, the religious movement said.. about 150,000 flocked to meetings with the main gathering in villepinte, in the paris region, attracting 50,000 followers.. several hundred jehovah's witnesses were baptised by being immersed in water during the event, which lasts the whole weekend.. those baptised were adults, following the example of christ.. jehovah's witnesses consider themselves the heirs of a primitive form of christianity.. their beliefs are strongly based on the text of the bible and they consider modern christian churches to have deviated from the book's true teachings.. followers reject the ideas of modern evolutionary theory and refuse blood transfusions.. they are perhaps best known for preaching on doorsteps, where they offer religious literature and attempt to convert people.. the movement emerged towards the end of the 19th century in the united states and arrived in france in 1906.. there are more than seven million jehovah's witnesses worldwide and around 150,000 in france.. the group's status varies from country to country.
they are given the same recognition as mainstream religions in austria and germany but are classed as a "recognised cult" in denmark.. in france, some of their branches have the status of "religious association" but the movement was also mentioned in a 1995 parliamentary report on sects.. google_ad_section_end(name=article) copyright 2009 afp.
Many places are mostly JW kids going under the water. To me the article saying, "adults", means not much of anything. Today, I'd guess far fewer adults are getting baptized, percentage-wise, than in times past because of the abundance of information on the world wide web that exposes the JW religion for what it actually is rather than what they tell you.
I've seen people become educated online, and say no thanks to becoming a JW, too many times to count now.
in a recent thread, i was basically called out in this manner.. here is part of the quote:.
mean no disrespect with the following but i have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen?
did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you?
Lola has opinions. Everybody else has opinions. Some totally agree with Lola, others only partially agree. Some totally disagree with Lola others only partially disagree. Same goes for AK-Jeff and his opinions and reactions.
It does not mean that anybody here is wrong. Her opinions are as valid as the original poster's. And I personally agree with many of Lola's points of view here.
Jeff willfully disassociated... (as did I). And now he's insulted when JW's he knows and helped in the past shun him today.
Lola gave her opinion on another thread that this is how it is with JW's, it's what they do, that he knows this and to basically stop whining, grow balls etc because they are shunning/dissing him now.
Jeff decided to start a new thread, here, because he didn't like what she said, I guess. And we have people on both sides of the issue with very passionate, reasonable and intelligent replies from both sides.
While I lean more towards Lola's side in all of this I also can agree with other specific opposing viewpoints as well. BOTH are legitimate positions, especially to them, depending on the individual, their experiences, state of mind, background and too many other things to list here.
Why bash Lola's point of view then? In fact why start an entire new thread trying (what appears to me) to actually seek Lola bashers and sympathy votes for yourself Jeff?
I don't see her bashing other's positions here. She even stated maybe she could have worded it a little differently, which shows reasonableness.
And then some just seem to love following Lola around, doing the needle job, while posting minimal content towards the issues being discussed themselves.
This subject being discussed, IMO, is just one of those issues/situations where there is no clear-cut right or wrong answer.
And when people start topics, posting their problems, situations and opinions publicly, in places here like the JWN, you can expect a variety of responses from a variety of people with an assortment of experiences and backgrounds.
All of these opinions expressed should have at least some merit. It's not as if these opinions posted are from people without a clue. We've all been there.
And if you don't like what was suggested/posted then why make a big deal and start an entire new thread? Why not just take it or leave it and move on?
All of us have been burned to some degree here. We sure do have that in common.
I say Beer summit time.
Vinny
in a recent thread, i was basically called out in this manner.. here is part of the quote:.
mean no disrespect with the following but i have to ask, when you disassociated yourself what did you think would happen?
did you expect witnesses to suddenly change to accommodate you?
I have obligations today so will to keep this short. (short for me anyway)
I believe BOTH Jeff and Lola make excellent points. I understand both perspectives. Neither one is wrong, IMO.
I too am disassociated (like Jeff) and my wife has faded (like both Jeff's wife and Lola).
I personally lean more along the line of Lola's point of view when it comes to running into JW's which I do almost every day since I live on an island.
The thing that I try to keep in mind (and which I have not seen you mention yet Jeff) is that for these indoctrinated JW's you run into; the shunning, avoiding, dissing etc etc, is for them A PART OF THEIR WORSHIP.
They believe they must do this to move you to come back. Shunning you is part of pleasing God. For them it means their life and possibly your life. It is not meant so much as how you are taking it, as an attack against you as a person. Many JW's hate to even have to do it. They become very uncomfortable. But this arrangement (as wrong as it is) is a very integral part of their own worship, at least in their minds.
Additionally, if they do not shun, avoid, diss etc you, then they believe God will look down upon them unfavorably. In fact they think YOU may lose your eternal life, by never coming back to the org, if they talk with you as if all is great and normal.
Going even further, if they do not shun, avoid, diss etc you, then they can very possibly become LIKE YOU, and shunned, avoided and dissed themselves. And JW's report on other JW's all the time as we all know.
They, simply put, THINK shunning you is the right thing to do for them, for you, for Jehovah, the cong, your family etc etc.
I see them far more as victims rather than they are somehow assaulting me when I get the shunning deal.
Just yesterday, an elder and his wife walked right by me and my wife. The elder was in front and had a scowl on his face looking hard and angry. But when the wife walked by she just kindly looked at me and smiled in a very caring way.
BOTH reactions come from the very same place IMO. Neither spoke but both (scowl and kind smile) think they are doing the right thing to help me come back. And by our leaving the Watchtower Society some can take it personal as if we are attacking their religion to some degree just through our actions of leaving.
I never bother getting into it during these personal encounters. They will never listen to me and there is no chance of getting anywhere but making things even worse for me and my wife. So I ignored the scowl faced husband and smiled back and winked at his wife. Both of whom I've given talks in their Hall when I was an elder.
They are for the most part simply doing what they think is right. Just like you and I did it when we both thought it was right as well.
But that sure doesn't mean I don't have my own brand of theocratic warfare to expose JW nonsense.
Just this week I was all over a thread online on my local newspaper. I addressed a dozen or more JW's and exposed the religion quite throughly.
A couple months ago I did the same thing on a USA Today article, which has huge visibility. (I just don't want to do this all the time).
In each case the only way to describe what happened is to say the JW's were all SPANKED thoroughly by the arguments presented.
And then they headed for the hills. And many other JW's sure did read it all. Just like here on this site and even this thread.
These can be really excellent opportunities to help get JW's to start thinking outside of the little boxes they live in.
I, like you, can get angry when my wife gets hurt with unfair JW shunning and nonsense. THAT can be a tougher challenge.
But the above still equally applies that these folks are usually just doing what they personally are taught and believe is the right thing to do.
Most really are just victims themselves here.
At least we have found our way out!
Hang in there.
All the best,
Vinny
some of you have been like family to me.
yet, it's time that i must say good-bye.
my husband and i have chosen to study the scriptures together on two conditions:.
You'll be back.
This is some kind of last ditch effort by your husband to save you as a JW. And your willingness to at least TRY to accommodate his requests is probably a good move on your part as well.
I would probably do the same thing if I were in his shoes. Anything to get you off of here.
But Cognac, it's too late; You already know far too much!
Who is in the better position to make a decision whether Watchtower is God's chosen channel or not; the one who only listens to what Watchtower says about itself, discourages honest dialogue, condemns all other people and faiths as false and soon to be destroyed while elevating itself to the only ones God chooses; OR the one that gets a complete picture about the Watchtower from its own publications, from current JW's, from former JW's along with neutral sources and everything in between?
We all know the answer.
Cognac, do you allow your little child to die because of the Watchtower blood policy? It comes up suddenly, without warning and more often that you may realize.
Cognac, do you allow your child to grow up without school sports, plays, activities etc and instead insist on meetings, field service and just JW association?
Cognac, do you shun this child of yours if she says nope, JW's are not for me?
Cognac, do you push all those JW policies (no blood, shunning, arrogance, no charity etc etc) on other people and families in your territory too?
There are too many things to even bother bringing up here since you already know practically all of it by now.
I hope you do not allow your husband to control or brainwash you. It almost sounds like he already is. But, like I stated up top, I believe you are doing this to try to accommodate his desperate move here to show you are open.
Just like what happened to me and tens or hundreds of thousands of others like me!
Sometimes a little crack is all it takes before the whole dam eventually gives way. By agreeing to what you are now doing you may be able to introduce him to the new reality for him that the JW religion is not what it claims it is, and once that happens the flood gates can open up.
If you, Cognac, ever have any doubts take one good whiff of THIS again:
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
YEARS AND YEARS of mistakes and WT embarrassments and humiliations and just plain bad news.
God was sure not behind of of that!
And if YOU ever believe that JW's are still God's channel then please be sure to show up and see if you can defend it here.
Like I said in the beginning, you'll be back.
Happy Trails Cognac!
Vinny
just have a question,.
when you found out about things regarding the wts, maybe on the internet, on this side or another, or you had serious doubts by yourself, did you talk to somebody ?
maybe an elder or a good friend ?.
(Format and posting, editing problems. I'll try it again).
Inbetween, I could not just continue to teach what I learned to be bad JW policies either. So this is what happened to me:
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/922/t/Letter-of-disassociation.html
Yes, Inbetween, everybody makes mistakes personally. As you have said here, I have said the same thing many times. But WT land goes FAR BEYOND JUST MAKING MISTAKES (((PERSONALLY))). They (((COLLECTIVELY))) ---- ((((( PUBLISH )))) those mistakes-- Force them on all JW's,-- WITH THREAT OF DISFELLOWSHIPPING-- And and then say God is directing ONLY them. You just gotta love that. HERE IS PROOF THAT JW'S BELIEVE GOD USES ONLY THEM AND THAT WT-WORLD HAS BEEN AND IS TODAY HIS CHOSEN CHANNEL. Just grab a chair and READ FOR YOURSELF: 1919 "Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?" {WT Apr 1 1919 6414} 1933 "To feed or teach his people the Lord has used the Watch Tower publications.. No man is given any credit for the wonderful truths which the Lord has revealed to his people through the Watch Tower publications." {WT Dec 1 1933 263} 1939 "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communicating to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." {YEAR 1939 85} (A PERSONAL FAV BELOW) 1942 "The Watchtower does not consist of men's opinions" {WT Jan 1 1942 5} (you have to love that one) -another Golden gem- 1957 "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people .. It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God." {WT Jun 15 1957 370} "As the voice of God"...(I am not making this stuff up). 1969 "Jehovah's organization as directed by his 'faithful and discreet slave' class should influence our every decision also.{WT March 15, 1969 172} Yep, they "Should influence our every decision also" (It's in print. I did not invent this stuff. I couldn't even if I tried. Sorry.) 1979 [Of those living at the time of Armageddon, only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved] {WT Feb 15 1979 30} Watchtower 9/15/93 page 22 : "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be NO PLACE ELSE TO GO FOR SALVATION".. How about that! SEPTEMBER 1996 Kingdom Ministry Page 1 paragraph 3 Walk by Faith We must also be firmly persuaded that Jehovah is leading us by means of his visible organization under the direction of “the faithful and discreet slave.”(Matt. 24:45-47) We demonstrate our faith when we are “obedient to those who are taking the lead” in the congregation.(Heb. 13:17) Humbly working in cooperation with the theocratic arrangement manifests our trust in Jehovah. SEPTEMBER 1, 2004 Watchtower magazine Pages 17-18 paragraph 18 Beware of “the Voice of Strangers” Obeying Jehovah’s voice also means obeying Jesus’ voice, for Jehovah himself told us to do so.(Matthew 17:5) What does Jesus, the Fine Shepherd, tell us to do? He teaches us to make disciples and (((to trust “the faithful and discreet slave)))).” NOVEMBER 15, 2002 Watchtwoer magazine Page 23 "How Can We Make Our Days Count Before Jehovah? Daily reading of the Bible and Bible-based publications provided by “the faithful and discreet slave” DEMONSTRATES OUR WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN TO GOD AS HE SPEAKS TO US". ***** There is is folks, ALL IN PRINT. And there is plenty more I can post too! So what is this saying" "IS NOT THE WT BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY THE ONE AND ONLY CHANNEL THE LORD HAS USED." "THE WT MAGAZINE IS GOD'S MEANS OF COMMUNICATING WITH HIS PEOPLE ON THE EARTH" "THE WT DOES NOT CONSIST OF MEN'S OPINIONS" "WE SHOULD RESPOND TO JEHOVAH'S VERY DEFINITE CHOSEN CHANNEL AS THE VOICE OF GOD" "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE CLASSS SHOULD INFLUENCE OUR EVERY DECISION" "WE MUST FIRMLY BELIEVE JEHOVAH IS LEADING US MY MEANS OF THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE AND BE OBEDIENT" "DAILY READING THE BIBLE AND WT PUBLICATIONS DEMONSTRATES OUR WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN TO GOD AS HE SPEAKS TO US". ***** No other way to interpret it here folks. Watchtower thinks God directs and uses them and only them. The problem is .... following the WT Society this has led to much: PAIN AND SUFFERING... DEATH... EMBARRASSMENTS... LOST OPPORTUNITIES... BROKEN FAMILIES... UNFAIR SHUNNING... AND MORE!!! Sorry Reniaa, Spike and other poor little JW's, but God was never behind any of THIS: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm You see, JW's like to then say that the holy spirit revealed their mistakes and they changed up on them afterwards. But like I already DROPPED IN THEIR LAPS, too many times to remember, many changes were because they had no choice but to change since many of their PUBLISHED WRITINGS never came true. 1925 for example. LETS TAKE ANOTHER LITTLE WATCHTOWER STROLL WITH RENIAA ABOUT 1925: (Reniaa sure don't like these strolls does she...come on Spike you can join us on our little stroll too too): 1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89. 1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262. Once again, as with the 1914 date, the revelation was attributed to "God Himself". 1922 This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct ...(Watchtower, July 15, 1922, p. 217) 1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." The Watchtower, page 106 4-23. 1925- "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925.. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line .. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." {WT May 15 1922 page 150} 1925- "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3. 1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." The Watchtower, Sept, 1925 p262 ***** Yep all this, IN WRITING, about 1925. Now, did the light get brighter JW's? NOPE! NOT AT ALL. So then what happened Reniaa and Spiuke? Here is what happened. 1925 .... CAME..... ANNNNDDD........... WENT!!!!! Now we can all see how this ruins WT claims that light got brighter and that God was behind any of these PUBLISHED WT TEACHINGS. All they were was big EMBARRASSMENTS and laughable. But it got worse! Notice how WT world tried to lay the blame on those poor little JW's: 1926 The Watchtower, page 232. "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (AMAZINGLY, THE WATCHTOWER ACTUALLY BLAMES THE JW'S, "INFLATED IMAGINATIONS", WITH THAT ONE). BUT IT STILL GOT WORSE AGAIN!!! Then came good ole BETH SARIM!!! Want me to quote all that too? awwwww ..... WHY NOT! March 15, 1930 San Diego Sun: "San Diego Mansion -- With All Modern Improvements -- Awaits Earthly Return of Prophets." Jan 9, 1931 San Diego Sun, "David's House Waits for Owner." A reporter asked Rutherford how he thought those ancient men would look and he replied he thought they would arrive in frock coats, high hats, canes and spats! Perhaps due to the embarrassment of such a ridiculous statement, a year later in 1932, the booklet, "What You Need" showed an illustration of those old prophets in ancient garb. It wasn't the first time JFR would stick his foot in his mouth. Nor was it the last. This same newspaper article stated that in the garage, "stands a new, yellow 16-cylinder coupe which will be turned over to the rulers along with all the personal property of the place." (The end never came, the "ancient worthies" never resurrected and Beth-Sarim was quietly sold in 1947.) B ut just like 1914 and 1925 BETH SARIM ...... CAME... ANNNNDDDD.......... WENT! See we can go on and on. Many things like these never had new light at all. Their published writings simply NEVER CAME TRUE!!! And here is the other problem for JW's and silly laughable "refining claims". How can God refine a bad idea for the JW's, but at the very same time lead them to new BAD IDEAS? Explain that one Reniaa and spike? For example, if in 1980 God was "refining" the sorry Organ Transplant is "CANNIBALISM" WT embarrassment deal. Then how could he allow ALL THIS AFTERWARDS: "The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." {WT Jan 1 1989 12} [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"] ".. there are many indications that 'the end' is much closer than that [the turn of the century]" {WT Mar 1 1984 18-9} "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the 'battle in the day of Jehovah' will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." {TNSK 216} "For the year 2000, I visualize a world transformed into a beautiful paradise! But I don't think that either the present world or its rulers will live to see that day.. We are living in the last days of the system of things." {AWAK Nov 8 1986 78} **** ON AND ON WE CAN GO WITH BAD IDEAS AND MISTAKES FROM WATCHTOWER-WORLD.
Once again Poor Reniaa and JW's gets taken to the woodshed. The sorry JW attempts to excuse all those mistakes is DEAD ON ARRIVAL. The JW's claim God is using only them (JUST READ THEIR OWN QUOTES ABOVE) all the while they have had pathetic, laughable embarrassments their entire 100 plus year existence. Yep, that would be the same DEAD ON ARRIVAL as all that WT embarrassments were when they first came off the presses ... D.O.A.. God was never behind any of it! Is total nonsense. The only folks that think JW's are chosen by God are JW's about JW's and that is it. Just telling you how it is. Poor Reniaa. Poor JW's Poor woodshed. Life is tough. Vinny
just have a question,.
when you found out about things regarding the wts, maybe on the internet, on this side or another, or you had serious doubts by yourself, did you talk to somebody ?
maybe an elder or a good friend ?.
Inbetween, I could not just continue to teach what I learned to be bad JW policies either. So this is what happened to me:
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/922/t/Letter-of-disassociation.html
Yes, Inbetween, everybody makes mistakes personally. As you have said here, I have said the same thing many times. But WT land goes FAR BEYOND JUST MAKING MISTAKES (((PERSONALLY))). They (((COLLECTIVELY))) ---- ((((( PUBLISH )))) those mistakes-- Force them on all JW's,-- WITH THREAT OF DISFELLOWSHIPPING-- And and then say God is directing ONLY them. You just gotta love that. HERE IS PROOF THAT JW'S BELIEVE GOD USES ONLY THEM AND THAT WT-WORLD HAS BEEN AND IS TODAY HIS CHOSEN CHANNEL. Just grab a chair and READ FOR YOURSELF: 1919 "Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?" {WT Apr 1 1919 6414} 1933 "To feed or teach his people the Lord has used the Watch Tower publications.. No man is given any credit for the wonderful truths which the Lord has revealed to his people through the Watch Tower publications." {WT Dec 1 1933 263} 1939 "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communicating to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." {YEAR 1939 85} (A PERSONAL FAV BELOW) 1942 "The Watchtower does not consist of men's opinions" {WT Jan 1 1942 5} (you have to love that one) -another Golden gem- 1957 "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people .. It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God." {WT Jun 15 1957 370} "As the voice of God"...(I am not making this stuff up). 1969 "Jehovah's organization as directed by his 'faithful and discreet slave' class should influence our every decision also.{WT March 15, 1969 172} Yep, they "Should influence our every decision also" (It's in print. I did not invent this stuff. I couldn't even if I tried. Sorry.) 1979 [Of those living at the time of Armageddon, only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved] {WT Feb 15 1979 30} Watchtower 9/15/93 page 22 : "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be NO PLACE ELSE TO GO FOR SALVATION".. How about that! SEPTEMBER 1996 Kingdom Ministry Page 1 paragraph 3 Walk by Faith We must also be firmly persuaded that Jehovah is leading us by means of his visible organization under the direction of “the faithful and discreet slave.”(Matt. 24:45-47) We demonstrate our faith when we are “obedient to those who are taking the lead” in the congregation.(Heb. 13:17) Humbly working in cooperation with the theocratic arrangement manifests our trust in Jehovah. SEPTEMBER 1, 2004 Watchtower magazine Pages 17-18 paragraph 18 Beware of “the Voice of Strangers” Obeying Jehovah’s voice also means obeying Jesus’ voice, for Jehovah himself told us to do so.(Matthew 17:5) What does Jesus, the Fine Shepherd, tell us to do? He teaches us to make disciples and (((to trust “the faithful and discreet slave)))).” NOVEMBER 15, 2002 Watchtwoer magazine Page 23 "How Can We Make Our Days Count Before Jehovah? Daily reading of the Bible and Bible-based publications provided by “the faithful and discreet slave” DEMONSTRATES OUR WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN TO GOD AS HE SPEAKS TO US". ***** There is is folks, ALL IN PRINT. And there is plenty more I can post too! So what is this saying? "IS NOT THE WT BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY THE ONE AND ONLY CHANNEL THE LORD HAS USED." "THE WT MAGAZINE IS GOD'S MEANS OF COMMUNICATING WITH HIS PEOPLE ON THE EARTH" "THE WT DOES NOT CONSIST OF MEN'S OPINIONS" "WE SHOULD RESPOND TO JEHOVAH'S VERY DEFINITE CHOSEN CHANNEL AS THE VOICE OF GOD" "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE CLASSS SHOULD INFLUENCE OUR EVERY DECISION" "WE MUST FIRMLY BELIEVE JEHOVAH IS LEADING US MY MEANS OF THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE AND BE OBEDIENT" "DAILY READING THE BIBLE AND WT PUBLICATIONS DEMONSTRATES OUR WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN TO GOD AS HE SPEAKS TO US". ***** No other way to interpret it here folks. Watchtower thinks God directs and uses them and only them. The problem is .... following the WT Society this has led to much: PAIN AND SUFFERING... DEATH... EMBARRASSMENTS... LOST OPPORTUNITIES... BROKEN FAMILIES... UNFAIR SHUNNING... AND MORE!!! Sorry Reniaa, Spike and other poor little JW's, but God was never behind any of THIS: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm You see, JW's like to then say that the holy spirit revealed their mistakes and they changed up on them afterwards. But like I already DROPPED IN THEIR LAPS, too many times to remember, many changes were because they had no choice but to change since many of their PUBLISHED WRITINGS never came true. 1925 for example. LETS TAKE ANOTHER LITTLE WATCHTOWER STROLL WITH RENIAA ABOUT 1925: (Reniaa sure don't like these strolls does she...come on Spike you can join us on our little stroll too too): 1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89. 1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262. Once again, as with the 1914 date, the revelation was attributed to "God Himself". 1922 This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct ...(Watchtower, July 15, 1922, p. 217) 1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." The Watchtower, page 106 4-23. 1925- "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925.. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line .. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." {WT May 15 1922 page 150} 1925- "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3. 1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." The Watchtower, Sept, 1925 p262 ***** Yep all this, IN WRITING, about 1925. Now, did the light get brighter JW's? NOPE! NOT AT ALL. So then what happened Reniaa and Spiuke? Here is what happened. 1925 .... CAME..... ANNNNDDD........... WENT!!!!! Now we can all see how this ruins WT claims that light got brighter and that God was behind any of these PUBLISHED WT TEACHINGS. All they were was big EMBARRASSMENTS and laughable. But it got worse! Notice how WT world tried to lay the blame on those poor little JW's: 1926 The Watchtower, page 232. "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (AMAZINGLY, THE WATCHTOWER ACTUALLY BLAMES THE JW'S, "INFLATED IMAGINATIONS", WITH THAT ONE). BUT IT STILL GOT WORSE AGAIN!!! Then came good ole BETH SARIM!!! Want me to quote all that too? awwwww ..... WHY NOT! March 15, 1930 San Diego Sun: "San Diego Mansion -- With All Modern Improvements -- Awaits Earthly Return of Prophets." Jan 9, 1931 San Diego Sun, "David's House Waits for Owner." A reporter asked Rutherford how he thought those ancient men would look and he replied he thought they would arrive in frock coats, high hats, canes and spats! Perhaps due to the embarrassment of such a ridiculous statement, a year later in 1932, the booklet, "What You Need" showed an illustration of those old prophets in ancient garb. It wasn't the first time JFR would stick his foot in his mouth. Nor was it the last. This same newspaper article stated that in the garage, "stands a new, yellow 16-cylinder coupe which will be turned over to the rulers along with all the personal property of the place." (The end never came, the "ancient worthies" never resurrected and Beth-Sarim was quietly sold in 1947.) B ut just like 1914 and 1925 BETH SARIM ...... CAME... ANNNNDDDD.......... WENT! See we can go on and on. Many things like these never had new light at all. Their published writings simply NEVER CAME TRUE!!! And here is the other problem for JW's and silly laughable "refining claims". How can God refine a bad idea for the JW's, but at the very same time lead them to new BAD IDEAS? Explain that one Reniaa and spike? For example, if in 1980 God was "refining" the sorry Organ Transplant is "CANNIBALISM" WT embarrassment deal. Then how could he allow ALL THIS AFTERWARDS: "The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." {WT Jan 1 1989 12} [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"] ".. there are many indications that 'the end' is much closer than that [the turn of the century]" {WT Mar 1 1984 18-9} "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the 'battle in the day of Jehovah' will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." {TNSK 216} "For the year 2000, I visualize a world transformed into a beautiful paradise! But I don't think that either the present world or its rulers will live to see that day.. We are living in the last days of the system of things." {AWAK Nov 8 1986 78} **** ON AND ON WE CAN GO WITH BAD IDEAS AND MISTAKES FROM WATCHTOWER-WORLD. Once again Poor Reniaa and JW's gets taken to the woodshed. The sorry JW attempts to excuse all those mistakes is DEAD ON ARRIVAL. The JW's claim God is using only them (JUST READ THEIR OWN QUOTES ABOVE) all the while they have had pathetic, laughable embarrassments their entire 100 plus year existence. Yep, that would be the same DEAD ON ARRIVAL as all that WT embarrassments were when they first came off the presses ... D.O.A.. God was never behind any of it! Is total nonsense. The only folks that think JW's are chosen by God are JW's about JW's and that is it. Just telling you how it is. Poor Reniaa. Poor JW's Poor woodshed. Life is tough. Vinny
we all love it when people pay attention to us or our opinions.
but what i am talking about is people who crave and force attention from others.
not just people who talk a lot, but those that force everyone around them to focus on them and them only.. in one of my classes there is a woman who raises her hand to ask a question, but never really has a question to ask.
"Vinny I agree with you. I'm just bored tonight..... "
**** In that case Reniaa STAYS!!!
Her arguments are boring, redundant and lame nonsense but JWN sure picks up when she posts all those boring, redundant and lame nonsense.
