Posts by Vinny

113

Hypothetically, If Someone Created a Fake Congregation to Trick Another...

by OnTheWayOut in

let's just stay hypothetical.

if someone wanted to create a fake congregation in 7-miles-from-nowhere, north dakota (7-m-f-n, n.d. congregation) in order to trick the elders at another congregation, what could they get away with?.

just assume that they use a p.o.

Vinny

"try again Vinny - this time for those of us with English as our 1st language....I know you live on an island but give it a go"....

**** Ok, in english: BWAAAAAAAAAhahhaaahahahahahaahahahahahahah

Better?

Vinny

113

Hypothetically, If Someone Created a Fake Congregation to Trick Another...

by OnTheWayOut in

let's just stay hypothetical.

if someone wanted to create a fake congregation in 7-miles-from-nowhere, north dakota (7-m-f-n, n.d. congregation) in order to trick the elders at another congregation, what could they get away with?.

just assume that they use a p.o.

Vinny

"thats my point Vinny - we have enough smarts on this board to create 2.0 FakeReInstate for those that want to try....

attempt number 1 is not usually the final version - it's called natural selection :-)"

****

113

Hypothetically, If Someone Created a Fake Congregation to Trick Another...

by OnTheWayOut in

let's just stay hypothetical.

if someone wanted to create a fake congregation in 7-miles-from-nowhere, north dakota (7-m-f-n, n.d. congregation) in order to trick the elders at another congregation, what could they get away with?.

just assume that they use a p.o.

Vinny

Snakes gave an intelligent reply from experience on the now deleted thread (good idea to delete that one) that would pertain to this one, IMO. I'll just copy and paste what he wrote (I've deleted all names used) :

My friend, I have mixed feelings on this one. I guess after 6 pages of replies and 1500 views, (and 1 hijack by the usual Ms R...sheesh).... I am sure that what I have to say is a duplicate of something someone has already said...here goes anyway...

As a former MTS grad, elder and congo secretary and member of (sadly) many JCs, the first thing I would have done upon receiving a letter such as you describe having been sent to the unsuspecting JC, would be to contact Patterson and make a quick call to the particular Desk in Service Department that handles that particular state(s) to confirm the address and contact information of the new congo making the reinstatement request. Immediately the scam would have been up and your friend would have been hard put to answer the subsequent questions that would have certainly been asked. I would also have mailed/faxed a copy of your letter to Service to verify the providence of the letter. Especially from an out of state congregation from a PO box (though I myself used a PO Box as secretary, my address was on file with the Society).

Understand, I was a paranoid sort that didn't trust too many people..so maybe I was an exception not the rule on thorough vetting of requests...so you all may get away with it...

so I pretty much knew how to come off convincing and authoritative enough to make this other JC chairman realize he was dealing with " the real deal " here.

With all due respect my friend, this comes off as a bit cocky....and very unlike the usual XXXX I have spoken with in the past.

As the chairman of the original JC, I would not have spoken to you one-on-one over the telephone ...this goes against all procedure I ever learned at MTS (and any elder worth his salt would know this too...oh wait..there aren't many elders worth anything, I digress). I would have had, at the very least, a second member of our original JC on the line with me...preferable all 3 of us from the original JC on a conference call .....and would have insisted that the PO or other member of your Service Committee were on the line with you.....(and I would have called you all back at the phone number given to me by the Society...not just accepted your call at face value) ......presuming of course that I had been able to verify your curriculum vitae with the Society....which of course...you would have failed....making the unlikely phone call moot.

and:

circuits... gotta at minimum change circuits...... Any CO following training will review recent JCs to make sure that procedure was followed and verify with Bethel anything funky like a letter requesting the original JC reinstate.... that kind of thing is more than a blip on a CO's checklist....and if the guy only changes congos within a circuit, the chances of getting caught are pretty high.

I wasn't DF'd ....but to make my fade, I changed congregations, states, and circuits. No backlash so far.....of course, at this point, I have posted my real picture and first name on this board...so I no longer care if I am DFd.

Snakes

**** Setting up a bogus congo is as bad as a bogus reinstatement committee. Sorry.

Vinny

60

The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

you get contacted, you come in, you learn the bible their way, then you learn the bible your way and then you leave.. you make the truth your own..

Vinny

Why are some today opposed to Jehovah's Witness and their policies Reniaa and Spike? Dead People is why. Ruined lives is why. False prophecies is why. A controlling Religious Institution is why. They are WRONG ON BLOOD TODAY. They are WRONG ON SHUNNING for merely walking away today. They are WRONG 607 BCE and 1914. They were WRONG ABOUT Vaccinations, Organ Transplants, Alternative Service, End of World Predictions, marital infidelity rules, rape, beards, 1935 and too many things to bother listing here. Did God make all of these sorry decisions to force on all the JW's, and then change his mind? Or did a few old men sitting around in some Brooklyn office make these bad decisions, force them on all JW's and then change their mind? Does God serve Bad Food like this? Perhaps He is not a very good cook? If the bible is true then CHRISTIANITY IS GOD"S ORGANIZATION TODAY. That would mean being a follower of Christ. Not some fraction of Christianity, that has the absolute WORST record of them all in terms of false predictions, doctrinal, medical and oftentimes wacky published as "Food from God" teachings during the past 100 years. Shunning for disagreements is NOT scriptural. Shunning for walking away from the JW faith is NOT scriptural. This is a control mechanism. And it works. It is a gross misapplication of scripture to keep the average JW in line. One cannot even think differently. I WAS a JW, and an elder as well, until recently. I am very familiar with how they are actually WORSE than most other faiths today. I am shunned for walking away. People today and for the last 80 years have died, without reason, due to the WT medical policies forced on all JW's. Each week is filled with a list of JW obligations that basically OWN YOU. You are told what you can read, what movies are acceptable, what association is acceptable, facial hair is okay. What you can celebrate and cannot. What words you are allowed to use. What is allowed in your own bedroom with your wife.

And too many other things to list here again. They are not better than most religions for me after coming to know all the facts. Before knowing all the facts and believing they were God's True Channel (as only JW's say about JW's) one can go a very long way to justify all of these things. Take away that one true faith belief and so falls the rest. I have been there and done all that. Vinny

60

The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

you get contacted, you come in, you learn the bible their way, then you learn the bible your way and then you leave.. you make the truth your own..

Vinny

AND THIS IS WHERE YOU KEEP GETTING SPANKED!!!

Neither you nor Spike nor any other JW that I have ever encountered or debated with can defend this sorry nonsense: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm with God somehow choosing only Watchtower and using onlyWatchtower for providing food at the proper time to only JW's.

This is where you cross the line, lose badly and then get buried and spanked all on the same thread.

Why not just say this is a good religion for me and leave it at that?

Why arrogantly teach that you must be a JW, JW's are the truth, God uses only JW's, JW's are God's people all the while you have pages and pages of PROOF that God never chose the JW's for anything, never got all those things wrong for 100 plus years and has not picked the Watchtower for anything at all.

This is your problem. And this is where you are in denial. And what you run away from again and again.

The JW religion is just that another religious institution and nothing more. The facts prove this again and again over and over.

JW's preach (((THE JW))) message Reniaa.

You know the one that said (in writing) that the end would come in 1914, 1925, 1975, before the generation of 1914 died, the year 2000. The JW message that forbids blood transfusions, that forbidded organ transplants, vaccinations, alternative service etc etc etc.... The one that says no beards, no holidays, no school sports or plays, no cub scouts, no red cross, no salvation army etc etc etc

THAT is not the biblical message at all.

And remember this fact: Before JW's ever showed up on the scene, Christianity was already GLOBAL!!! Now how did that happen do you suppose?

I am telling you that God's hand is with my life. Now how does that happen Reniaa if I left his organization??

I would be delighted to have proven to me that the Watchtower is what I thought it was for 15 years. I have debated with some of the most capable JW's in many places. But the results just prove what I have already known for some time; that the JW religion is not what they say about themselves.

It's not a matter of my winning anything. It's truly a matter of putting the issues on the table and with an open mind coming to reasonable conclusions based on the whole range of facts and information.

I have proven to myself (and my family as well as God Himself) that I am willing to be WRONG.That I am willing to be adjusted. That I can accept new information regardless of the consequences.

After all I became a JW.

And then I was willing to leave the JW's despite heavy consequences.

What else do you need to see to realize I am willing to be proven wrong... or right... whatever the case may be.

Truth is worth the effort and or consequences for me.

That's what this journey called life is all about.

And my Heavenly Maker knows this because I talk about it every day that I am alive. But you guys think I am some kind of godless apostate. Whatever works I guess.

I did it too for 15 years.

One thing we can all agree on is that God was sure not behind any of this: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm

And THAT is the Watchtowers baby for life Reniaa!

If the bible is true Jesus did many amazing things to prove God was with him.

If the bible is true Moses did many amazing things that prove God was with him.

And this sorry list is what JW's have to prove God is with them today??

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
All from their own literature.

The printed page tells it like it is Reniaa!

Like I've said many times now; the Watchtower's greatest enemy today is its own literature.

Vinny

60

The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

you get contacted, you come in, you learn the bible their way, then you learn the bible your way and then you leave.. you make the truth your own..

Vinny

Reniaa writes: "What denial?"

**** You have simply ran away from thread after thread after thread. You have been TROUNCED on so many specific issues here, only then you find another thread to post without addressing the issues from prior threads

.

I can point you to an easy half dozen and more Reniaa. YOU ARE IN DENIAL.

Reniaa writes: "What none of you guys can change is as a body the Jws believe the most biblically correct in this time, they have made mistakes but we are not free of this until Jesus returns"...

**** Reniaa, I can respect that statement from you though still not agree with you.

Fine if you believe the JW's have the best of what you are looking for.

Fine if you think JW's are closest to the bible.

Fine if you feel most comfortable being a JW today.

I say go for it Reniaa. Enjoy the JW religion and do what you want to get further involved with it.

But the problem is that you do not stop there.

NOT FINE that you condemn all other religions and people of those religions regardless of how spriritual and Godly they truly are.

NOT FINE that you arrogantly believe that every person not a JW will be destroyed and is being misled by Satan.

NOT FINE that you think God uses Watchtower to feed JW's food at the proper time (and only JW's) despite THIS LITTLE PROBLEM ON YOUR LAP:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm

You see Reniaa, the JW religion and you as a JW go much further than just thinking JW's are good for you, the best for you, closest to bible etc.

AND THIS IS WHERE YOU KEEP GETTING SPANKED!!!

Neither you nor Spike nor Thirdwitless nor any other JW that I have ever encountered or debated with can defend this sorry nonsense: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm with God somehow choosing only Watchtower and using only Watchtower for providing food at the proper time to only JW's.

This is where you cross the line, lose badly and then get buried and spanked all on the same thread.

Why not just say this is a good religion for me and leave it at that?

Why arrogantly teach that you must be a JW, JW's are the truth, God uses only JW's, JW's are God's people all the while you have pages and pages of PROOF that God never chose the JW's for anything, never got all those things wrong for 100 plus years and has not picked the Watchtower for anything at all.

This is your problem. And this is where you are in denial. And what you run away from again and again.

The JW religion is just that another religious institution and nothing more. The facts prove this again and again over and over.

JW's preach (((THE JW))) message Reniaa.

You know the one that said (in writing) that the end would come in 1914, 1925, 1975, before the generation of 1914 died, the year 2000. The JW message that forbids blood transfusions, that forbidded organ transplants, vaccinations, alternative service etc etc etc.... The one that says no beards, no holidays, no school sports or plays, no cub scouts, no red cross, no salvation army etc etc etc

THAT is not the biblical message at all.

And remember this fact: Before JW's ever showed up on the scene, Christianity was already GLOBAL!!! Now how did that happen do you suppose?

I am telling you that God's hand is with my life. Now how does that happen Reniaa if I left his organization??

I would be delighted to have proven to me that the Watchtower is what I thought it was for 15 years. I have debated with some of the most capable JW's in many places. But the results just prove what I have already known for some time; that the JW religion is not what they say about themselves.

It's not a matter of my winning anything. It's truly a matter of putting the issues on the table and with an open mind coming to reasonable conclusions based on the whole range of facts and information.

I have proven to myself (and my family as well as God Himself) that I am willing to be WRONG.That I am willing to be adjusted. That I can accept new information regardless of the consequences.

After all I became a JW.

And then I was willing to leave the JW's despite heavy consequences.

What else do you need to see to realize I am willing to be proven wrong... or right... whatever the case may be.

Truth is worth the effort and or consequences for me.

That's what this journey called life is all about.

And my Heavenly Maker knows this because I talk about it every day that I am alive. But you guys think I am some kind of godless apostate. Whatever works I guess.

I did it too for 15 years.

One thing we can all agree on is that God was sure not behind any of this:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm

And THAT is the Watchtowers baby for life Reniaa!

If the bible is true Jesus did many amazing things to prove God was with him.

If the bible is true Moses did many amazing things that prove God was with him.

And that sorry list is what JW's have to prove God is with them today??

But the printed page does not lie Reniaa!

Like I've said many times now; the Watchtower's greatest enemy today is its own literature!

Now Reniaa, just believe what you want but keep the arrogance ("we are the only truth and you will be destroyed") out of it and you'll have more peace in your life and when you stop by here.

All the best,

Vinny

60

The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

you get contacted, you come in, you learn the bible their way, then you learn the bible your way and then you leave.. you make the truth your own..

Vinny

So once again Spike Tassel resorts to talking about Vinny while he AVOIDS THE ISSUES ENTIRELY.

Poor Spike.

Poor JW's.

Life is sure one tough deal sometimes when you live in a state of denial.

Sorry Spike, I do wish the best for you and yours though. You sound like an okay guy sometimes.

Aloha,

Vinny

60

The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

you get contacted, you come in, you learn the bible their way, then you learn the bible your way and then you leave.. you make the truth your own..

Vinny

Spike Tassell ewrites: "I didn't say yet who taunted me. It was actually Vinny, and I didn't take his bait."

**** Spike you are full of bologna!

You didn't take what bait? I asked you to prove that has God has chosen Watchtower, and dispenses food from himself to all the little JW's, despite THIS WATCHTOWER FACT OF LIFE: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm

You see Spike, the printed page does not lie. God was never behind all those PAGES AND PAGES of Watchtower embarrassments and humiliations for their entire existence.

Now you try to claim you didn't take the bait. But Spike, the fact is YOU CAN'T REPLY. That's because you will be embarrassed here on this thread just a much as Watchtower has been embarrassed by all those years of quotes.

Just telling you how it is Spike. I felt bad too at one point realizing that my JW world bubble has been popped.

Spike Tassel then concludes: "Vinny, I'm sure I will say Hi to Reniaa, and probably a whole lot more, if/ when I can meet her in person. A delightful gal if reality is like what I see on JWN. If you like her style, anyone here, you can complement her yourself and say Hi, etc. We're all capable of speaking for ourselves, as we've each proved in our own individual ways."

**** Reniaa runs away from the very same things you are running away from here. The only person that even tried to justify all those mistakes, false predictions, medical disasters, blinking lights etc etc, all the while claiming God uses JW's was Thirdwitness on Topix. And he was TROUNCED and paid for it afterwards for even trying.

Reniaa runs away. You run away. The reason is clear; nobody can defend the JW faith as being used by God today for anything.

You see all the while you say God was refining JW mistakes, they were publishing NEW MISTAKES at the very same time.

And many mistakes that were published Watchtower had no choice but to change or drop.

1914 came and went. 1925 came and went. Beth Sarim (was huge WT embarrassment) and came and went. 1975 came and went. The generation of 1914 came and went. The 20th century came and went. Vaccinations stomped out polio, diptheria, tetanus, flu, cholera, measles, mumps, yellow fever, rubella and more. Organ transplants were never the same as "cannibalism" as Wt land stated and have saved or extended hundreds of thousands of lives. Many times dropped doctrinal understanding has been brought back. That aint not "light getting brighter" folks. That's called BLINKING LIGHTS.

You see this is why Spike is fighting a losing battle. The WT was never God's anything. One look at the whole picture proves this without a doubt to any rational mind. That WT land is not what they say about themselves. That there is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that supports God has been using WT Society. In fact there is a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF that God has never used them: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm Deal with that for a while Spike and JW's. For example: Was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants was a "conscience" matter in 1961? Was God"s spirit with WT when they then said organ transplants are same as "cannibalism" in 1967? Or was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants are NOT the same as cannibalism in 1980? Was God behind all those changes each time? Did (((GOD))) get all those things wrong each time? Did God cause folks TO DIE by listening to the WT Society as the voice of God? AND THIS IS JUST ONE THING!!! We can do this same song and dance THOUSANDS OF TIMES. That's how bad defending WT world has become. Just telling you how it is once again. THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY IS NOT GOD'S ANYTHING. Sooner or later you will just have to face the music. All the best, Vinny

17