Posts by agapa37

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

agapa37

(1) According to the Bible, was Satan an apostate from at least the Garden of Eden onward? (the meaning of "apostate"; Genesis 3)
Yes Satan could be considered the first apostate, as he was the first to cause someone to apostasize from true worship

(2) Was Satan, a known apostate, allowed in the assembly of God's angels? (Job 1-3)
Yes Satan was allowed in Heaven. He was not forcibly removed until Jesus became king of God's kingdom. Until then, Jehovah gave him the freedom to go where he pleased.

(3) Did Jesus talk with Satan? (Matthew 4)
Jesus answered his temptations

(4) Did Jesus use Scriptures when talking with Satan? (Matthew 4)
Jesus did answer Satan with Scriptures

(5) Did Jehovah both talk with and allow himself to be influenced by Satan? (Job 1-3)

yes and no. I do not see where Jehovah is being influenced by Satan. (Look up influence with Miriam-Webster: alter, modify - neither of which did Jehovah do when talking with Satan) He answers Satan's taunts, but does not change in anyway.

(6) Would the interaction between Jesus and Satan described in Matthew 4 be permissable for Jehovah's Witnesses? (Matthew 4)
Jehovah's witnesses probably shouldn't be talking to Satan. :)

That, indisputably, being the case: Why is it okay for Jesus to talk with Satan but not okay for my family to talk with me?
I dispute your assumption that Jesus would be disfellowshipped for talking with Satan. Situations would be taken into account. If I were on a mountain and an apostate came and tempted me 3 times and all I responded with was scripture (then told him to get lost), I would not be disfellowshipped.
You keep referring to Jesus temptations from Satan to a fullfledged conversation. According to scripture, it was 3 temptations.
Satan: "make bread out of this rock", Jesus: "man lives on utterances from God too".
Satan: "jump, God will save you", Jesus: "don't put God to the test".
Satan: "worship me!", Jesus: "worship only God! Leave me, now."

Not much of an indepth conversation. I highly doubt this to be a disfellowshipping offense.
Edit:ooops, I guess I didn't finish answering your question.
Since Jesus didn't have a real in-depth conversation with Satan, neither should your family have one with you.

Beautiful answer Metaspy. That's what I have been saying (or trying to say). People look to the scriptures and try to make them fit somewhere they don't just to satisfy there own agenda. Auld seems to be a master at it and the rest follow his suite because he uses FANCY words and prides himself on Perfect vocabulary. Talk about brainwashing! I think this thread should be closed because both Metsapy and I responded and throughly answered your question with the bible and logic that cannot be refuted successfully! Thanks again Metaspy PS: Auld maybe JWS won't talk with you because of your superior attitude and argumentative appraoch. Example, I told you wouldn't hear from me due to the fact that I can only post five per day, but you HAD to throw in a smart and condesending comment about me.....something about crickets. Remember? You can add one more witnees who refuse to have a conversation with you I would also like to add, I see the way you CHANGED the subject after she thouroughly undisputably answered your questuons and DESTROYED your logic, i guess hold habits are hard to break.

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

agapa37

Yes I got it. But you don't get what I am saying. JWS are encouraged to follow Jesus example. The example of Jesus and satans DISCUSSION/temptation is NOT the same example of JWS talking to you. So for the third time, trying to apply the temptation account with the senario of JWS talking to you is a far stretch from being the samething or even close to being the same application. This will be my last post for the day because old habits die hard and can only post five a day! A little advice, try to be a bit more simple in words, when talking to us JWS, we are just that way.

So to answer your Question, why won't JWS get into a bible discussion with you? Because as you said they feel you are an apostate and the bible warns God's people to steer clear of them and , at least I do, feel that Jesus example with Satan does not apply to your scenario! Got it? I hope so because I am tired of repeating myself. I will respond tomarrow if I haven't been futher disciplined. Have a great day!

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

agapa37

I thought I did answer that question. It was NOT a discussion. The Bible says it was a TEMPTATION! It was a question /challenge(satan) and answer (Jesus) type exchange. OK, we can call it a discussion in the literal sense of the word for the sake of argument, but as I said before, the way you are trying to apply it to your scenario does not fit. The type of interaction that you and I are having now is something discouraged by the JWS. Why? well I am sure you know why. You yourself openly called yourself an apostate in there eyes and asked why JWS wouldn't converse with you. Do we need to look to Pauls letters to see why?

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

agapa37

So Satan comes along but Jesus didn't rebuke Satan. Instead, he has a lengthy Scriptural discussion with his Father's archenemy—really, a doctrinal discussion, with both sides using power of persuasion full-tilt.

If Jesus is my family's exemplar, and they believe I am an apostate, why are they not allowed to follow Jesus' example?

Can some JW please answer that one for me?

Yes Auld I can try. What you are actuallt doing is LOOKING for something to use against the JWS within that account that is not there! You make alot of ASSUMPTIONS...example..really, a doctrinal discussion, with both sides using power of persuasion full-tilt. For one, where do you see a doctrinal discussion? It is not a discussion but is a temptation as the BIBLE says. Both sides using power of persuasion? Where? That account shows Satan MISAPPLYING (much like you have done with this account) scriptures to tempt Jesus and Jesus countering with the truth. Basiclly my answer to you is; Don't try to make something outta nothing! I hope that has helped you.

8

Witnesses Have a High Mental Illness Level, Hmmmmm.

by Golf in

jw
friends

check this site out.

http://www.equip.org/free/dj601.htm .

http://www.equip.org/free/dj570-2.htm .

agapa37

Now I know why I'm nuts

But you are not a JW JH. So there must be another reason why you are nuts!

16

So tired...I feel like less than a sparrow (me)

by JamieL in

jw
friends

this is a nice big open board, thought i'd throw myself out there.. recently i had been a part of the "e-jehovah's witness" board.

especially as i don't think i even care that much anymore.

well, 3 weeks after that she cheated again, with a different guy.

agapa37

I had a long talk with my father. And his of the same opinion and finds this really ridiculous. He told me "You know I raised sheep when I cam back from Vietnam. On the Farm. These men don't know anything about sheperding a flock. You know they have special fencing for sheep...most people used to use Cattle fence. But what would happen is a sheep could just poke its head thru those square holes and get stuck. And if you didn't watch them, it would try desperately to get free and eventually cut its neck on the fenceand die. The sheperd would come over and get the sheep out before that happens. Or at least they should."

Yes you're pop is a smart man. Just hang in there bro. I too see the lack of sheparding skills amoung the brothers and that is a real problem within Jehovahs Org today. You mentioned you really have'nt taken this to God like you should have. I suggest now is the time to do so. You are in a vulnerable situation, one that satan will use to his advantage to take you out. Just remember people like David, Job and all the faithful individuals in ancient times when the people in Jehovahs org were unfaithful. My thoughts and prayers are with you!

11

Regarding Genesis 3:15, Tell me what you think

by unbaptized in

genesis 3:15 states " i shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed.

" " he will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.".

i did some meditating on this scripture and came to the realization that this prophecy could have somehow been misinterpreted.

agapa37

Tell me what you think?

Me think we should stick to the WT interpretation!

37

Screw You Watchtower I love my MAN!!!!! My Sex God from Croatia!!!

by ClaireManEater in

jw
friends

well i got disfellowshiped for "immorality".

me and my girl friend went to europe and eventually ended up in croatia.

(what a beautiful place by the way).

agapa37

JWdaughter

You made a good point when you said...."Mercy may serve a better purpose here." I wholeheartedly agree with that. Commiting immorality does not mean disfellowshipping. The whole purpose for the Elders is to try to HELP the flock. Discipline should be the last resort. I do not know the TRUE details of her situation and it is safe to say that many here do not as well. I am also aware that brothers can be and are very insensitive to modern day problems and how to deal with them.

But you do have the right Idea, MERCY to those who seek it!

8

Why do the JW's prefer scaring people than show true love?

by JH in

jw
friends

join or be destroyed, rather than show true love like jesus said the true christians should have.

agapa37

Man JH it seems like you have real issues with the brothers. I am sorry you have had such a time with those people, but I think there's a time, when one must move on and if able to be an EXAMPLE. It seems to me you are either beating yourself up over the fact that these people are not behaving like Chritians and its driving you crazy because you wish they would so you can go back or you are just stirring the pot because you have nothing better to do.

37

Screw You Watchtower I love my MAN!!!!! My Sex God from Croatia!!!

by ClaireManEater in

jw
friends

well i got disfellowshiped for "immorality".

me and my girl friend went to europe and eventually ended up in croatia.

(what a beautiful place by the way).

agapa37

JWdaughter thats not the point though. She BLAMES the WT for getting disfellowshipped for HER actions. That doesn't strike any note to you?

Claire that is not Judging. We can't blame others for OUR actions, we can't blame the police for putting us in jail because we robbed a bank! Its pretty simple.