For me, Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 is proof that Christ is in subjection to God who gave Christ all power and authority. We probably can never know the true relationship between the Father and Son since it is spiritual and beyond human comprehension. But since God and Christ are revealed in scriptures in human terms as Father and Son which we can understand why do we need to go beyond this revelation?
Posts by Pahpa
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142Trinity?
by BFD ini am reading the bible for the first time.
i was df'd in 1976 and lived my whole life thinking the jws have the truth and i just could not live up to the standard and was doomed to die at the big a without question.
until i found jwd 31 years later.
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NT use of the OT
by Doug Mason inif you are interested in discovering the way that jesus and the apostles applied the scriptures (our ot), i strongly recommend the following book.
biblical exegesis in the apostolic period by richard n. longenecker, grand rapids: eerdmans publishing co. .
the following is the contents of the 1975 edition that i possess.
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Pahpa
Doug
It sounds very interesting. I have a number of Eerdman's references in my own library. Thanks for the recommendation.
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What was an Episkope in the 1st century Christian Congregation
by rassillon inone that held that position, what were they responsible for?.
i understand that congregations were communal and shared resources.. was an episkope an overseer of spiritual matters or physical needs such as food and money, political structure?.
i guess i am asking an "overseer" of "what"?.
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Pahpa
J.M.
Excellent points! There seems to be some evidence in the scriptures that the church would remain in a confused and mixed state after the death of the apostles and early Christian leaders. If John's letters to the seven churches (Revelation) reflect the spiritual condition of the church in the "end time" as some believe, it would demonstrate just how corrupt and degenerate the majority would become. According to John, it wasn't the "overseers" or "elders" in these churches that were going to set the example. Rather, it was up to each individual to "overcome" and remain faithful in spite of the condition of the church and its leaders.
Even in some of Jesus' parables he spoke of the "weeds" among the "wheat" that would exist until the "harvest" time. So the human appointments to these positions would be just that "HUMAN appointments." For any church today to boast that it is "apostolic" or that is has returned to the early Christian arrangment is simply not true.
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142
Trinity?
by BFD ini am reading the bible for the first time.
i was df'd in 1976 and lived my whole life thinking the jws have the truth and i just could not live up to the standard and was doomed to die at the big a without question.
until i found jwd 31 years later.
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Pahpa
BFD
Most new transations have deleted that rendering. NIV for example reads: 7 - "For ther are three that testify: 8 - the Spirit, the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement." The reason for the deletion is the words "the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit" are not found in any manuscript earlier that the late manuscripts of the Vulgate. So, most scholars and translators feel that they were not part of the original.
Many trinitarians have criticized the NWT for its biased unitaraian views. But it should be noted that they are not above slanting their translations to their views. For example, compare John 1:18. NIV reads "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only who is at the Father's side, has made him known." It is only the footnote that clarifies this confusing rendering. "14,18 Or the Only Begotten"
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The WTS.a corrupt publishing house, disguised as god's only true religion
by Handsome Dan inmany of us that have been out and any from this organization can now stand back and derive a clear picture of why this organization started and the reason it started.
interesting to note the people who started things off such as c.t.russell and his father j. russell both were business minded professionals who both must have certainly known the assets of .
advertising, they must have they owned 5 clothing stores.
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Pahpa
I wonder if Jehovah's Witnesses apply the later verses in Isaiah 43 to themselves? "You have not called upon me, O Jacob, you have not wearied yourselves for me, O Israel. You have not brought me sheep for burnt offerings, no honored me with your sacrifices.....But you have burdened me with your sins and wearied me with your offenses." Vss 22 -24)
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The WTS.a corrupt publishing house, disguised as god's only true religion
by Handsome Dan inmany of us that have been out and any from this organization can now stand back and derive a clear picture of why this organization started and the reason it started.
interesting to note the people who started things off such as c.t.russell and his father j. russell both were business minded professionals who both must have certainly known the assets of .
advertising, they must have they owned 5 clothing stores.
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Pahpa
It's difficult to second guess the motivation of individuals. But my impression of Russell and his father from what I have read is that they were both sincere in their religious beliefs. It could not have been easy for these successful business men to dispose of their prosperous business interests to pursue a questionable religious path. They were willing to expend their wealth for their religious faith. I wonder how many business men today would be willing to do the same?
James Penton describes Russell as "devout" and "pious" youth who was "more interested in religious matters" than in business. I don't think we can deny his sincerety regardless of how bizarre some of his teachings were or how things later turned out.
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Matthew 28:19, 20 "Go therefore ... baptizing them ..."
by AuldSoul injehovah's witnesses teach that matthew 28:19, 20 is a requirement of god for every christian, a command from christ to his followers.
every one of jehovah's witnesses is required to proselytize in order to be considered an active and regular jehovah's witness.. however, these verses also say that the teachers must baptize.
jehovah's witnesses only consider baptisms by organizationally authorized persons to be valid, and only after a person desiring baptism meets the requirements of an unscriptural criteria.. how is it contextually possible that jesus intended the teaching to be carried by individuals and the baptizing to be performed organizationally?
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Pahpa
To be realistic, Rutherford encouraged all to "advertise, advertise, advertise the King and the Kingdom" as a clever ruse to get everyone involved in selling the Watchtower literature. This was the beginning of the effort to expand the publishing potential of the Watchtower organization. It bore no resemblance to the preaching of the gospel in the 1st century,
As noted, only SOME were appointed to be "evangelizers." While early Christians eagerly shared the "good news" with others by telling of their own experiences to friends and family members ("public declaration"), the preaching work itself was carried on by the apostles and evangelizers.
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How do I use the "Anointed are nothing special" info
by OnTheWayOut inthe recent thread about the upcoming qfr on the anointed, http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/130668/1.ashx.
discusses the possibilities on what the borg are up to.
okay, whatever, but i want to use the information to my advantage.
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Pahpa
On The Way Out
Do you think this information could be more for the consumption of those congregations that still have "anointed" members? They have always played a very minor role compared to those "anointed" ones who are in the leadership. Perhaps, the underlying message is not to elevate those individuals in the congregations since the real direction is from those "anointed" leaders at the headquarters.
Since there has been an increase of those partaking in recent years, this may be a subtle hint to them that they are no better than the rank and file members who hold the "earthly hope" even though the scriptures indicate that the holy spirit has revealed their special calling as children of God and according to Watchtower doctrine, they alone have Christ as their mediator.
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What was an Episkope in the 1st century Christian Congregation
by rassillon inone that held that position, what were they responsible for?.
i understand that congregations were communal and shared resources.. was an episkope an overseer of spiritual matters or physical needs such as food and money, political structure?.
i guess i am asking an "overseer" of "what"?.
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Pahpa
It seems that the terms "overseer" and "elder" were used interchangeably. (Compare 1 Tim. 3 with Titus l) This oversight probably included matters other than "spiritual ones." For example, there was the collection for the brothers in Jerusalem that Paul mentions. And the distribution of food to the widows. The logical oversight of such projects would fall upon the overseers who, in turn, might delegate some responsibility to the others as was done in the example of the 12 apostles. (Acts 6)
In any case, Jesus' counsel applied to any of those who took leadership roles in the early church: "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all." Mark 9:35
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Some outrageous counsel I received once ...
by Frequent_Fader_Miles ini was reading an earlier thread about ridiculous counsel and i just had to share this one with everyone.. you know how sometimes around christmas time merchandisers would package their products in a more "festive" wrapper?
the largest bread company here does that every year.
well one yuletide season (when i was about 7 years old), i was helping myself to a couple slices of bread and my aunt saw me.
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Pahpa
We once had a "sister" in our congregation who wouldn't let her kids eat Devil Food Cake!