Posts by Pahpa

2

"Faithful and Wise Servant" Intrepretation?

by Pahpa in

most commentaries say that the "faithful and wise servant" of matthew 24:45-31 is general admonition to christian members or christian leaders to remain faithful until the "return of the master.

" but bible students and the watchtower have given it specific prophetic fulfillment in the person of charles russell or in the annointed of the watchtower organization.

is anyone aware of other religious groups that have given it this significance?

Pahpa

Thanks, Hamilcarr

That was very interesting material. Before leaving the organization, I had quite a discussion on this subject with the elders who visited my home. I asked them about the similar account in Luke12:42-48 where the writer introduces a third condition of "...the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment"....but who "will be beaten with few blows." I asked them what class this represented? They were unable to answer never having considered the two accounts. I don't know if this was ever covered in the Watchtower publications.

20

A practical lesson on shunning.

by strawberry cake in

today i decided to visit a friend of mine who i met when she was my study.

(she has no intentions of making a commitment, but still continues studying with old pioneer 'friends' of mine.

well it just so happens that these 2 sisters were there.

Pahpa

It's been my experience that Jehovah's Witnesses are often unprepared to handle such situations when faced with it personally. Some will go well out of their way to avoid any contact when they see a df'd person. Others turn their heads and backs when a df'd person approaches. One can sense the panic and fear in their demeanor. But I remember one dear "sister" that saw me in a grocery store and raised her hand with a furtive wave. One of the saddest cases involved my own mother who, in her 90s, was shunned by her grand daughter in the house of my sister. She got up and walked out of the room. Needless to say, my mother was devasted.

I'm amazed that some Jehovah's Witnesses deny that they shun former members. Perhaps, they are embarrassed by the practice itself. In SC's case, they were their own worst enemies by demonstrating "first hand" the cruel and unchristian ways of this religious group.

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"Faithful and Wise Servant" Intrepretation?

by Pahpa in

most commentaries say that the "faithful and wise servant" of matthew 24:45-31 is general admonition to christian members or christian leaders to remain faithful until the "return of the master.

" but bible students and the watchtower have given it specific prophetic fulfillment in the person of charles russell or in the annointed of the watchtower organization.

is anyone aware of other religious groups that have given it this significance?

Pahpa

Most commentaries say that the "faithful and wise servant" of Matthew 24:45-31 is general admonition to Christian members or Christian leaders to remain faithful until the "return of the master." But Bible Students and the Watchtower have given it specific prophetic fulfillment in the person of Charles Russell or in the annointed of the Watchtower organization. Is anyone aware of other religious groups that have given it this significance?

34

Bible study with PO/sister and wife, did not go well......

by insearchoftruth in

last night....did not go well at all, at least in my opinion.

i feel that the sister from her conversations with my wife started on a quite defensive mode....did my best to stay level headed, but i know there were times i was frustrated, and it showed.. .

the husband and wife were about 40 minutes late, due to traffic, and they were not prepared to discuss michael/jesus, and with respect to the doctrine change, he merely provided me a 1995 and 1997 wt article, when he and i spoke on the phone, he said he was going to show me in the bible, he sort of danced around this a lot, but not to my satisfaction.. .

Pahpa

This is a good example of the double standard JWs use when comparing religions. Can you imagine the comments about other religions if they had a similar history of changing some of their basic teachings after it became evident that they were in error? They would use that as a clear example of how their leaders were "false teachers" and "false prophets." But when it comes to the Watchtower Society they excuse it by saying it was "new light" and that "the truth" is a progressive understanding thanks to the FDS.

The Bible says that Jehovah hates those who use "dishonest scales" to measure. (Proverbs 11:1) Yet, that is exactly what JWs do in such situations. "Differing weights and differing measures - Jehovah detests them both." (Proverbs 20:10)

41

shock breakthrough with my wife

by stillajwexelder in

so my wife out of the blue says .

"i thought when we went under ban, everyone would still meet in peoples houses at the the book groups.

now they are doing away with that arrangement, what does it all mean.?

Pahpa

I can distinctly remember when it was announced that the book study was the most important meeting in the congregation. The understanding of that time was that Kingdom Halls would be closed down shortly and the only contact we'd have would be through the book study. It was suggested that the book study could be moved around to various houses to outwit the authorities. Therefore, it would be very important to be present at every book study to know where the next would be located. If we missed just one meeting we could find ourselves in danger of being excluded from our brothers and sisters.

At that time, the book study was not being well attended. It could have been an attempt to scare the members to support this meeting. In my congregation there was a lot of politics that were being played by the PO. I remember one book study conductor that had been appointed who told me that he didn't understand most of the information in the book and wondered how he could help others in the study. I reassured him that there were a number of brothers and sisters who would help him out.

The Watchtower Society has vacillated on many things throughout the years. And this seems to be just another example of the changing circumstances that influence their policies. It certainly illustrates how nebulous this "spirit led organization" really is....

4

Yahoo Answers and 1919

by donny in

three weeks ago i posted the question below on "yahoo!

answers".

i was amused by the silence and i only got five answers the first week, and most of them were not jw's.

Pahpa

There seems to be more reasons why God would have rejected the Watchtower Society in 1919 than to embrace it. Rutherford still promoted Russell's false dating system: (1799, 1874, 1878, 1881, etc.) The official view of those in the Watchtower organization in 1919 was that Christ returned in 1874. It took Rutherford several years thereafter to revise Russell's dating system. In 1919 the Society was still feeling the rejection and defection of the majority of the Bible Students who had been faithful to Russell. The organization was in turmoil. Rutherford had to concoct a theory that would consolidate his power of those remaining. He did this by teaching that God selected his group in 1919 to carry on the preaching work and created the "Advertise, advertise, advertise" campaign by involving every member to become a salesperson of the Watchtower literature. It was a self promoting scheme that became very lucrative for the Watchtower Society.

The irony of it all is that if Christ didn't come invisibly in the heavens in 1914 (and the scriptures seem to indicate just that) then the Watchtower Society has been preaching a false message for these many years. And it would fit the description of the "false teachers" and the "false prophets" that Christ and early writers of the Bible warned us about.

I am not surprised by the silence of Jehovah's Witnesses on this very subject.

24

What happened to the simplicity of the early church?

by Pahpa in

early christians were drawn together by their love of christ and each other.

most were just hard working average people who had little education and no understanding of the philosophies of the world.

the gospel message of the kingdom and the future hope of life everlasting were the basis of their simple faith.

Pahpa

Slappy

Thanks for sharing the interesting information. It does demonstrate how fast disintegration can occur within a group. In the case of Darby, Newton and the others it was their differences of opinion that caused the fracture within their group. By the way, some of the same issues about the "rapture of the church" are dividing many fundamentalist Protestant groups today. (Pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib) As the saying goes: "The more things change, the more they remain the same."

Eventually, God will settle these controversies. Our obligation is only "to love one another" as Christ loved his disciples. We all can agree to disagree on doctrinal differences. But we should never judge another Christian because his opinion differs from ours.

24

What happened to the simplicity of the early church?

by Pahpa in

early christians were drawn together by their love of christ and each other.

most were just hard working average people who had little education and no understanding of the philosophies of the world.

the gospel message of the kingdom and the future hope of life everlasting were the basis of their simple faith.

Pahpa

DD

Your point is well taken. We know that many did turn away with disappointment when Christ died. Many had expected him to rule as an earthly king with Jerusalem established as his capitol city. But the gospel message continued on with the inclusion of "Christ crucified" and gave significance to points that Christ made during his ministry. Example: "My kingdom is not of this world...." Christ said that many things not understood would be revealed later. But the basic "good news of the kingdom" remained the same. And this simple message drew in the multitudes as it spread throughout the Roman empire and beyond.

I think, though, that the Watchtower has gone well beyond the misunderstanding of the early Christians. It is promoted its own teachings that negate the scriptures. For example, the teaching of a invisible presence of Christ is exactly what Jesus' warned his followers about: "At that time if anyone says to you 'Look, here is the Christ' or 'there he is' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear.....So, if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert' do not go out; or 'Here he is, in the inner rooms' do not believe it.' "

It is interesting that the Watchtower's teachings of these subjects evolved out the disappointment of its expectations and interpretations. It had to justify its own self appointed position as God's spokesman. And as in the case of the early church, the leaders were primarily responsible for the errors that crept in.

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What happened to the simplicity of the early church?

by Pahpa in

early christians were drawn together by their love of christ and each other.

most were just hard working average people who had little education and no understanding of the philosophies of the world.

the gospel message of the kingdom and the future hope of life everlasting were the basis of their simple faith.

Pahpa

JB

I have to agree with you. Most of the home and "store front" churches fail within a short duration. I'm not sure that the simplicity of the early church can be replicated today. We're looking back nearly 2000 years ago to try to determine the structure and organization of it. Paul's letters to the churches help. But they still lack a lot of detail as to how they were conducted. And, maybe, it wasn't meant to be.

Jesus said that the "wheat and weeds" would be mixed together until the end. John doesn't even encourage those faithful members in the seven churches to separate from them and form their own groups. Rather, he encouages individuals "to overcome" by person integrity and faith. So, perhaps, this is the position we are in today. Jesus said where "two or three" are met together in is name, he would be in their midst. We may have to be satisfied with this kind of fellowship.

24

What happened to the simplicity of the early church?

by Pahpa in

early christians were drawn together by their love of christ and each other.

most were just hard working average people who had little education and no understanding of the philosophies of the world.

the gospel message of the kingdom and the future hope of life everlasting were the basis of their simple faith.

Pahpa

DD

I'm sure that "Christ crucified" was an important part of the kingdom message in the first century. But it was not the total message. I don't think one can separate the two. Paul's comments were showing the reaction of non-believers who rejected Christ, the center of the kingdom message. Those who responded favorably accepted Christ as the messiah and king which was also part of the gospel message. I see no contradiction.

GD

By the end of the first century there were already forces at work within the church to destroy it. The letters to the seven churches in the Revelation account describes the deplorable conditions of the church by that time. Jesus and the Bible writers warned about the "false teachers" who would enter into the church after the death of these men. The stoic and epicurian philosophers argued with Paul in Athens. Paul warns about the "widsom" of the world which in the Roman world would have included their obession with the Greek philosophers. To the Colossians he warns "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit." (KJV) Since these were forces to be dealt with even during the apostles' time,I have no doubt that it played a major role along with other forces to totally corrupt the church early on...