Posts by Pahpa

75

Coptic John 1:1 makes it into the Watchtower.

by slimboyfat in

wt november 1st has a two page article on how the early sahidic coptic version of the new testament translated god with an indefinite article in john 1:1 and argues this supports the new world translation's rendering "and the word was a god".

online witness apologists have been using this piece of evidence in support of the nwt for a few years now.

in particular solomon landers promoted the coptic version of john 1:1 in discussions with evangelicals and other who oppose witness theology.

Pahpa

The controversy of the trinitarian vs. the unitarian doctrine dates back to the early history of the church. It's clear that many Christians never accepted the trinity as the "central doctrine of Christianity." When Arius argued against it in the fourth century, he had the support of many including some of the Bishops. It was only when the trinitarians consolidated their power through political means that it become "orthodoxy." And the unitarian belief continued down through the ages. So, it is not an exclusive Watchtower doctrine as many seem to indicate.

The topic has been discussed in length even on this site. It has not been resolved for two thousand years. So, it will remain a subject of discussion in the future. But for the average Christian not skilled in theological debate, the very human description of a "father" and a "son" is understood without the mystery of a complex explanation from a theologian.

24

My family wants me to see a Psychiatrist

by BonaFide in

so i have posted on here about my conversations with my family.

i toned it down a little when they got really upset, so many on this board told me to be careful.

but yesterday my sister called me.

Pahpa

I'm not sure that seeing a psychiatrist is going to make any difference with your sister. Jehovah's Witnesses already are conditioned to question the whole field of psychiatry except those psychiatrists friendly to JWs. If you chose one that agreed the problem was your religious association, do you really think your sister is going to accept this? You'll have gone through the motions for nothing.

I think the advice for you to be the initiator of love in your family is probably the best one. Avoid confrontation on religious subjects. But be prepared that your family may send elders to visit you to "readjust" your thinking and to "help" you spiritually. Delay tactics can help you extend your family association. Wishing you the best during this difficult time.

15

A really annoying text

by strawberry cake in

this is a really irritating text that i received from an old jw acquaintance.. .

i would like to tell you that the latest book we received 'keep yourselves in god's love', says that jw have to strictly avoid someone disfellowshipped.

the same applies to someone who left organization.

Pahpa

I'm not surprised that Jehovah's Witnesses would react this way even though there is no official position. I remember one elder who voluntarily stepped down to take care of his teenage children. He was treated as a pariah in the congregation after it was announced that he was no longer serving in that capacity. ( He actually had his priorities correct. Family always comes first.) It was assumed that this brother was "removed" for other reasons. And he was treated as a non-person.

Jehovah's Witnesses over-react to any hint coming from the Watchtower organization. Who can forget the "marking" of individuals that occured a number of years ago? And this happened to people in good standing in the congregation. It's the nature of spiritual inbreeding that takes place in such groups.

30

One reason I have NO RESPECT for the CATHOLIC CHURCH

by yesidid in

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=241926&version=1&template_id=45&parent_id=25.

catholic church guards its dominance in e timor.

maliana: a few years ago domingos pereira and his wife did something dangerous.

Pahpa

BTS:

Your information only proves the arrogance of the presumption of the Church in assuming that it was the judge and jury of Bible translation as well as what was acceptable faith. It's persecution of other religious groups in the name of God for "heresy" assumes that the Church was the only true representative of God. (Where have I heard this before?) And to try to justify this by citing the examples of some Protestant leaders who followed the same course is hardly a valid argument. Once a religious group claiming to be Christian oversteps the principles and teachings of Christ they are no longer truly Christian whether Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox. Wasn't it Christ who taught we should love even our enemies? Or is it your premise that as long as one is non-Catholic the Church is prefectly justified to murder any "heretical" person?

The Middle Ages are also known as the "Dark Ages" for a very good reason. The church kept the general population in complete ignorance except for those in the highest ranks of the Church itself. Even priests and nuns were often illiterate at the time. The Church conceded to publish the Bible in the vernacular when it realized the only source for its own members would be those "heretical" editions that were becoming widespread. The average Catholic knew more about its saints and relics than the gospels. (Both brought more wealth into the church.) One may try to white-wash the deplorable historical record of the Church in these matters. But it stands to condemn the unchristian actions that indelibly stain the Church.

30

One reason I have NO RESPECT for the CATHOLIC CHURCH

by yesidid in

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=241926&version=1&template_id=45&parent_id=25.

catholic church guards its dominance in e timor.

maliana: a few years ago domingos pereira and his wife did something dangerous.

Pahpa

BTS

The historical record of the church makes it clear that the leaders of the Catholic Church resisted the publishing of the Bible in the vernacular and destroyed many Bibles so as to keep its members from having access to it. This same record clearly implicates the Church and its leaders in the persecution and death of innocent people because they refused to recognize the church as the only means of salvation. The fact that a recent pope acknowledged these sins of the church and asked forgiveness underscores the role the church played during those times.

True, it has altered its course in modern times. But one has to question the motives. The church lost its secular authority and control over the people. Democratic forms of government overthrew those despotic rulers that the church supported and used. The church had no choice. It had to bend to the trends or disappear. But its past record can not be expunged. And it can not be so easily dismissed because of its new "tacking" efforts.

25

Did you feel euphoric at conventions? Anyone go to Dodger Stadium?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i did for a couple of years.

i was involved with setting up food stands and night security.

i really felt like i was contributing and this made me feel great!

Pahpa

Yes, I well remember those feelings at the large assemblies (eight days) at Yankee Standium and the Polo Grounds. It was especially true when thousands would raise their voices in the songs. But I was young and single at the time. In later years, I found the large assemblies a real chore. Often we had to sit in the bleacher sections in the hot sun with our children. We had to stand in long cafeteria lines to get a bite to eat. And we would come back to our rooms late in the evening exhausted. Later, all the information at the assembly would be available in the Watchtower articles in the next few months.

When I found out that the members of the Governing Body and other "special representatives" of the Watchtower who attended these same assemblies sat in air conditioned club houses and were served special menus my own disillusionment started. It took a few years but it finally hit home that this was not "God's organization."

26

Fading becomes ground for disassociation

by passwordprotected in

here's what i think will happen as i continue to develop my wt sleight of hand thought.... .

faders are a problem.

they want their cake and they want to eat it too.

Pahpa

There are so many inconsistencies and hypocrisy in the Watchtower organization. It seems that unless one is officially df'd or da'd some Jehovah's Witnesses continue to associate with the "faders" or "escapees." One may have commited a serious "sin" but if he/she was not caught and escaped to another area some family and friends feel there are no restrictions at all. I've seen this happen time and time again.

One family whose son got a "worldly" girl pregnant move out of the congregation. The mother and father who were very active JWs continued to see their son and grandson. When asked about this situation, they replied that he moved out and was never df'd. In other words, he was not caught. On the other hand, this mother and father completely shuns the grandfather who was disfellowshipped a few years ago.

Now, I don't blame the parents for wanting to see their son and grandson. And I certainly don't agree with the Watchtower policies in this regard. But I find it hypocritical when Jehovah's Witnesses shun those who have been officially df'd yet continue associating with those who were never "caught."

25

JWs can't associate with faders anymore???

by cognac in

cognac...... chapter 3 starting around point 12 "choosing our close associates".

Pahpa

Undercover

I remember the "marking" of individuals in the congregation. It caused a lot of problems at the time. In my congregation, some were going around advertising those they had "marked." It caused some serious divisions usually initiated by the "holier than thou" types.

As I recall, this was the result of an article in the Watchtower. I think the information was later toned down because of the problems.

26

38 years, are these people friends ???

by lancelink in

last week my mother died, and since my parents live clear across the country, i had to travel out there and help .

my father with the arraignments.

they were active, visible witnesses here at home here in wisconsin for over 15 years.

Pahpa

LL

It's always very difficult to lose a parent. May you be comforted by the good memories of your mother and in the hope of the resurrection.

I think that part of the reluctance of Jehovah's Witnesses to show normal feelings of sympathy and compassion comes from the fact that with each death they are faced with the reality of their own mortality. They are taught that they may never see death and survive into a perfect "new system." But these hopes are shattered with the loss of each loved one. So, it is easier for them to hide from these truths. It is a form of denial. Their loyalty to the organization above all things is obvious during these times. Thus, the friendships and bonds are superficial because of this misplaced loyalty.

All of us who became JWs when young and spent many years in the organization have seen most of the previous generation of JWs die in spite of their expections and hopes. The new generation of JWs feel that they are the ones upon whom all these promises will be fulfilled. But they, too, will one day realize the futility of Watchtower promises.

8

Baracks Wall Street Problem is Now Americas

by misocup in

jw
friends

misocup, good article.. once again, in this totally insane atmosphere of partisan politics, the most straightforward facts, such as the obama/democrats involvement in the freddie/frannie (fraudy and foney)mess is being distorted all out of proportion.

of course the republicans are involved also!

but the truth is it is a 20/80 situation and the dems are the 80. ironically, it was john mccain who called for closer regulation 2 yrs ago and was ignored by the democratic congress, many of whom, like obama, were involved up to their eyeballs in receiving personal gain from these two companies.. don't expect any lib/dems on this board to acknowledge any of this.

Pahpa

Both the executive and legislative branches of government have been heavily involved in this fiasco. The politicians of both parties are influenced by the lobbyists who represent these same institutions. Their donations and perks were sought after with relish. And laws were passed that were favorable to the quick profit of these companies with little responsibility. And who in the end pays for it all? It is the taxpayers have to bail them all out.

And what of those CEOs and other executives that caused this deplorable situation? They are leaving with "golden parachutes" worth millions of dollars. Where else can one be rewarded for failing except on the governing boards of these institutions or in the seats of Congress and the White House? The public should be infuriated by these events. But most people are just too busy trying to survive in these difficult times. And it will probably be "business as usual" after the elections in November.