Posts by FuzzyPaul

114

Immortal Soul? Impossible!

by wannabe in

impossible!.

we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.

the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.

I wish to add that "soul", "spirit", and other terms related to this discussion do not have a clear one meaning use, single definition, concise English equivalent. They are used in a sloppy fashion. Look up these terms in Strongs analytical concordance. They have no single use as the Watchtower wants to make their simple minded case.

When the Hebrew scholars translated the Hebrew Scriptures into The Greek of their day they chose a term for Sheol from Greek mythology with all the baggage that that term had because it was a best fit. So, discovering what Hades meant 250 years or so before Christ to a Greek is necessary.

"gymnastic for the body, and music for the soul." - Plato

The body was not the soul and that idea was part of the baggage that the term "soul" had in the Greek.

Plato, who did not teach an immortal soul in the way the Watchtower claims repeatedly, said in The Republic,

Well; and has not the soul an end which nothing else can fulfill? for

example, to superintend and command and deliberate and the like. Are

not these functions proper to the soul, and can they rightly be assigned

to any other?

To no other.

And is not life to be reckoned among the ends of the soul?

Assuredly, he said.

And has not the soul an excellence also?

Yes.

And can she or can she not fulfill her own ends when deprived of that

excellence?

She cannot.

Then an evil soul must necessarily be an evil ruler and superintendent,

and the good soul a good ruler?

Yes, necessarily.

And we have admitted that justice is the excellence of the soul, and

injustice the defect of the soul?

That has been admitted.

Then the just soul and the just man will live well, and the unjust

man will live ill?

That is what your argument proves.

And he who lives well is blessed and happy, and he who lives ill the

reverse of happy?

Plato also wrote,

And what shall be their education? Can we find a better than the traditional

sort? --and this has two divisions, gymnastic for the body, and music for the soul.

True.

Shall we begin education with music, and go on to gymnastic afterwards?

By all means.

And when you speak of music, do you include literature or not?

I do.

- http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.mb.txt

The text can be downloaded and the FIND feature under your EDIT tab can be used to find the term "soul". A word is defined by its usage.

Regards,

Paul

114

Immortal Soul? Impossible!

by wannabe in

impossible!.

we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.

the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.

FuzzyPaul

Hey,

Sorry for my delay.

There are some very well researched posts here. The references to extra-biblical sources is profoundly interesting since those sources have been considered sacred for millennium. Enoch is quoted by Jude who mentioned Prophets more ancient than his generation including Enoch. The only trouble I have with favoring Enoch as pure Holy Scripture is that the English translation is from the Ethiopic which was translated from ? and that was translated from ?? The fact that it held the interest of so many Hebraic and Christian peoples for so long and was repeatedly retranslated adds to the evidence it is sacred literature.

The 66 book Bible is a closed set of Sacred texts. Wrongly so I think. The Catholic council of Trent added Sacred texts back into canonized scripture which I agree with. These and other writings considered Sacred were kept in Synagogues and libraries as the content of the Dead Sea Scrolls includes them. I appreciate that an open mind is needed to read and process their content especially when ones background includes the Watchtower. There are Gnostic gospels and Nag Hammadi (FALSE) scriptures that fail to apply to the Truth of Hebraic Sacred literature.

As a point of fact the Watchtower teaches that the resurrection of those who are not of the 144,000 is to this Earth and occurs after Armageddon but before the release of Satan from his 1000 year long imprisonment in the Abyss. The purpose given for this is that they must reform themselves back to spiritual perfection and 100% obedience with help from God who reforms their body to perfection. I have noted that this is a re-incarnation theme. Re-incarnation is based on the concept that a person returns to life on Earth as a man to get another chance to reach perfection called Nirvana to some.

A time line is provided in Revelation 20. Here it is from The Holman Christian Standard Bible.

Revelation 20

Satan Bound

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 He threw him into the abyss, closed it, and put a seal on it so that he would no longer deceive the nations until the 1,000 years were completed. After that, he must be released for a short time.

The Saints Reign with the Messiah
4
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7
The Great White Throne Judgment
11
13
Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Then I saw a great white throne and One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12 I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books. When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 They came up over the surface of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them. 10 The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. [I] also [saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of God's word, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with the Messiah for 1,000 years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over these, but they will be priests of God and the Messiah, and they will reign with Him for 1,000 years.

vs. 1 to 3 is the imprisonment of Satan at the beginning of the thousand year reign.Vs. 5 "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed."

vs. 6 "but they will be priests of God and the Messiah, and they will reign with Him for 1,000 years." cannot be linked to the 144,00 mentioned twice previously in The Revelation. They can just as likely be separate entities and most think so.

vs. 7 "When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released", rounds up his sympathizers and supporters who gather against the Saints but there is no battle, "Then fire came down from heaven" which ends this last stand of Satan & partners.

THEN THE TIMELINE CONTINUES TO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT:

vs. 11 "A great white throne and One seated on it." (Matthew 25:31 -32 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.")

vs. 12 "the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books." Is the first group to be judged.

vs. 13 "Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works." Death and Hades were considered to be gods - persons - by Greeks with Hades being definitely so. But a figurative meaning is most likely.

vs. 15 "And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." ( Matthew 25:41 Then He will also say to those on the left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!" and 25:46 "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.")

The description of the judgment in Mt. 25 tells of the King separating people AS A SHEPHERD does. Goats were not unclean or despised animals to Hebrews. The Watchtower ignores an obvious fact, that taking care of fellow humans, even strangers is a most important criteria for favorable judgment. They call such charitable works to be like "painting the deck of a sinking ship." Then they spiritualize the story and ignore the entire content of it to say that some people are "goat like" because they don't obey the GovBody, blah, blah.This life is your chance, don't blow it.

Hebrews 9:27 "it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment" After death comes judgment - not extra time.

It makes no sense to believe that dead persons who were 100% unconscious would be brought back to consciousness, judged, announced worthy of eternal fire and then to be annihilated forever returning them to 100% unconsciousness. That scenario makes no sense to a Watchtower (and similar) belief system, there would be no point to tell a 100% unconscious dead person ”wake up, you are bad, go back to eternal sleep.” so they ignore the timing and obvious content.

Be nice, charitable. Almost all religious belief systems teach being nice. Knowing Jesus bumps one up the status of sainthood, being in the first resurrection. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship.

Matthew 7:21 - 23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but [only] the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name? ' Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'I never knew you!’ because they had no relationship with Jesus.

Sorry this is almost a week after this thread started but I hope it reinvigorates the topic.

The authority mentioned in Mt. 7:29 is because he identified himself as being the Great Judge in Heaven and stated what he was expecting.

Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship.

Sorry this is almost a week after this thread started but I hope it reinvigorates the topic.

12

Religion after JW

by tmj4477 in

hello i was raised a witness from 7 to 17 then i left home and never looked back!

i just never could get around the logic of no birthdays (but anniversaries), the roller coaster doctrines regarding college (they ensured various generations in to poverty with that one), the balls to use the rights that they refuse to defend (im a veteran), the whole df thing (how unchristlike is that!

), back and forth variations with blood transfusions, and last but not least using "elders" to counsel the flock without giving them proper education!.

FuzzyPaul

Greetings tmj4477,

The cartoon person with the mouth open reminds me that tmj is Dr speak for temporal mandibular joint syndrome. Jaw hinge disease usually caused by teeth grinding in one's sleep. That was assigned to you, yes? This may be a long read but is about a four year experience.

I was Catholic from wee to three, but my mother became a JW and forced us to change with volcanic behavior. My Dad almost got baptized but his friend's wife gave him an earful in Polish. He changed his mind. I liked going to Church. I distinctly remember NOT liking going to the Hall but "they had the truth" I was told. WRONG. They said the were the truth. 45 years later I was washed up. I wore a beard been to university took voice in the music college then got invited to sing on TV in Nashville but the sister who helped me practice got yanked away even though her kids worked as musicians for non-JW orchestras. Blah blah blah I was destroyed by their non-stop, no limits abuse.

I stepped back. For a good while I knew that God was dealing with me personally and told me that they were not what they said they were and I should not blame him for what they did. I still got mad at him. It was trained to believe the WT was God’s earthly representatives and it was diffi-cult to free my mind. Then I learned by accident that they had joined the United Nations and all the alarms went off in my head. I was even afraid to read of their duplicity in child abuse and the UN NGO thing and their bizarre teachings since that was apostate and I had been taught to fear becoming demonized by getting information from opposers.

I had to free my conscience and abandon the limits they taught and used to hold me prisoner.

WOW. I love being a Christian.

My first Church visit happened this way. I tried to find a certain non-denominational church that caught my attention and stopped at a little Grace Bible Church to ask directions for future use. I got them but wasn’t familiar with that area and was invited to stay. I was wearing painting rags. I did and was accepted as I was by a group of the most wonderful people I ever met. (The WT told that the Devil used the trick of using nice smiling people to attract one! I once asked an elder if that meant God‘s people would be recognized by their mean looks.)

After a dozen Churches I started going to a local Southern Baptist Church that always had a packed parking lot just for Sunday School. I have been baptized there and a two year member. It is not the denomination. Many of my friends are from other backgrounds and we agree that the religious brand name is irrelevant. We learn truth and have love. The balanced non-judgmentalism but respectful, decent behavior is seriously non-WT.

The Watchtower teaches one to judge and condemn and demand that one lie in court or refuse to testify against another JW even if that’s contempt and gets one in jail even if the guy is a child rapist. And so-on and so-on.

Every Church except one impressed me as being filled with friendly, beautiful people, the Church of the Nazarene here. Since then I have been to many of their services and think the religion is OK but the emphasis on righteousness is an over-compensation for flawed people to hide that they are still imperfect. One group had a slogan that they were the perfect church for people who weren’t. Nice group, bring ear plugs and expect to stay past noon. The Seventh Day Adventists have a similar set of doctrines to the WT such as No Hellfire, immortal soul, and so-on and promote healthy living and diet. SDA live ten years longer than other religions members with vegetarian SDA living close to a hundred years. But I love the Southern Baptist group I am part of. We are flawed people who love each other. We trust, study, live the Bible and pray and pray and pray.

Prayer is very powerful. God listens. God loves us. He wants to hear us ask and responds. If you don’t think you should ask to be healed of a disease or for your business to succeed and later get to ask Jesus why you were so sick and lost your business would you be shocked if he asked you why you didn’t ask for his care and intervention. Ask, there are no rules on what to ask for (except for immoral desires and such of course) HE WANTS to help us become happy and successful and to ask about anything.

Being a Christian is a relationship with a person, Jesus Christ. It is not a religion. I recommend that you just go to different Churches. If Jesus is taught there the group will reflect that and be loving and enjoyable to be with. You might experience culture shock when you sing one song after another with drums and guitars. Or watch soloists or hear the choir do it up. Some preachers are loud some aren’t but if Jesus is taught there the group will be loving and friendly. A few fundamentalist Church groups here have check lists and judge one’s appearance and it is noticeable that they aren’t warm. One insists that the King James Version is verily the Word of God in the very words Jesus spoke in 16 th century English and all. I don’t feel comfortable there, KJV only is Watchtower like with the WT New World Translation only (terrible translation), add check list of dresses on women, number of earrings, tie and jacket …. That is religion - just rules.

The Mass is another story, one doesn’t go to Catholic Church for social reasons. I go to be alone with God with 500 others. The Mass covers all the points one needs for life, asking for forgiveness, everlasting life, saying the Lord’s prayer, hearing the Bible read (three long passages on Weekends) admitting one is faulted but if Jesus only says the word “I shall be healed”. Father Johnson and Father Charles are good preachers and know what they are talking about. Catholic Mass is very respectful of communion. When Mary is appealed to, the prayer is to the Father in the Name of Jesus asking for her prayers and / or that of the Saints. I expect that if the Father told them of such request that they would pray for us. There is prayer in heaven. God lives in a heaven above heaven.

My Deacon and Baptist friend’s son is a Catholic monk. We talk freely and are friends. I watched a video on the Monk Thomas Merton and went to Mass as an observer after. I felt peace from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet and can not explain it any other way than I felt the presence of God. Now I love going to Mass on Saturday at 4pm and I go to Cornerstone Baptist the rest of the week. I freed my conscience and will not lose my freedom to care for my fellow man as he comes to God, Jesus.

Pray. Have no fear of any man or “true for you but not for me” slogan ideas from another. A rabbi wrote that it is forbidden to fear anyone or anything other than G-D. That actually makes me fearless in any situation. Bias, prejudice, negativity will limit your relationship with Jesus. The Jewish Rabbis revered as wise sages are ok as are many TV prophecy preachers. Satisfy yourself that the Watchtower is wrong, evil, lying, deceitful, dishonest with doctrine if you doubt that you should leave. Most JW’s know where the lies are and are taught that that’s theocratic teaching . I knew they rewrote John 3:16 to support salvation by works. I knew that Ephesians 2:8 - 10 said,

For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;

Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live]. - (Amplified Version)

I discerned that it can’t be both salvation by works and “not because of works”. But it took me nine months to overcome all the Watchtower contradictions of salvation only by faith and only by faith in Jesus. Faith saves, being good just happens because we love God and he empowers us. You can’t buy salvation or earn it.

Pray. Distrust all Watchtower teachings. Get rid of New World translations and Watchtower books - those are rubbish. Pray.

Read some of my other posts. Freeminds . org is good. Pray.

Pray AND listen. God is always at work all around you.

I’ll pray for you now and whenever I think of you and others who visit here.

God Bless you, amen,

Paul

6

Confessions of a Teenage Jesus Jerk

by Rabbit in

now...this guy has the ring of truth in his words, as i remember it.

i wonder, too, is tony 'present' here ?.

http://www.sfweekly.com/2010-02-03/culture/awkward-armageddon-confessions-of-a-teenage-jesus-jerk.

FuzzyPaul

Those feelings and descriptions of what goes on in the Watchtower is spot on. Quilt for normal human experience is part of what makes the Watchtower the mind control cult king. Ever get a burning red neck when the meeting parts about masturbation occur? Hoping that the speaker doesn't get too into his topic to spare one any further distress. Infants masturbate.

I love the real Jesus. The Watchtower doesn't teach it and doesn't live it or likely even knows how or what loving Jesus is even about. It isn't religion, denomination, check lists, entries on a dossier in the KH files. It s a relationship. Many persons were so convinced that the WT was the truth that when they leave it they hate God assuming he was treating them badly through the behavior of elders and other JWs. Assuming its all part of God's purpose to get DF'ed with announcements and judged for going to college or letting a beard grow some become destructive, against decency that the Bible writers explained when the truth about the Watchtower is it was started by the Grand Council with Charles Russell wanting to "prove the free-masonory of the Bible".

Being human means being a decent person, loving, respectful with enjoyment in that. I never got enjoyment from trying to "keep in step" with the organization. To think that one is expected to believe they are right when they are right and right when they are obviously wrong and right when that was wrong last month before another chunk of "new light" from the GB came out in a WT pub.

I hope that learning that Jesus is alive, interested in each of us, and has a plan for our lives for our good AND that the Watchtower wasn't part of his followers so don't think the are descriptive or representative of him. San Francisco is seriously twisted with homosexuals, druggies, witches, making rules on what is wrong with decent people all mixed in with rediculous real estate prices and so many SFers are proud of being leaders in the Devil's and the Illuminati's agenda. It isn't hard to reason how that agenda has no love or responsibiblity for other's good in it.

I want to be a good person and I know Jesus is with me all the way. I hope in prayer you do also.

Good blessings,

Paul

12

My wife got very nervous about me being on this sight

by recovering in

my wife walked in while i was on this site.

she saw the header jehovahs witness.

net and exclaimed what are you doing, you are going to be brainwashed.

FuzzyPaul

Dear recovering,

This site is about free speech. JWs, ex-JWs, non-JWs, studying with JWs, anti JWs - they are all here and agree to hear each other decently. There is no free speech in the WT.

Researching the flag salute court cases the Watchtower fought I learned that free speech has four components and all must be allowed for speech to be free.

Free speech means that one can say what one wishes (some limits apply).
Free speech means that one can not be forced to say something (pledge of allegiance) or anything, including testifying against oneself or qualifying family.
It also means that one is free to listen to others speaking even if some strongly dissent.
AND one can not be forced to listen to others ( a form of mental false imprisonment ).

The Watchtower won a valuable right ( somebody said how this was a great service to democracy) but denies the components of it to members.

The devil is only a fallen angel. The Holy Spirit lives within us. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and he is irresistable. John wrote that he that is in us is greater than he that is in the world. Demons aren't going to pop out of a page and take us over but that is how many feel, I did. The Holy Spirit has taught me a lot about the evils propagated in the Watchtower by reading you all here.

Enjoy,

Paul

19

My experience with the JW's and more...I'll try to make it short.

by ConnieD29 in

well i guess the thing to do here is to kinda tell your story so that is what i'm going to attempt to here.

even though it makes me a bit nervous.. my experience with the jehovah's witnesses was short compared to lots of people here.

i was only involved for about 3 yrs.

FuzzyPaul

Dear ConnieD29,

Welcome, telling your story is cathartic - good for the soul. I wonder if your experience in the Watchtower caused the , pardon this, mental imbalance. I hope it is agreeable that I meant that respectfully. You said :

"so being the "good Christian girl" I had to marry him because we had sex.....stupid"

and that after being raped. Michelle, a really good friend of mine I knew from quick-builds started dating George. Three months later they were getting married because she had to set a good example to the younger ones. Next quick-build year after getting married she was severely changed for the worse. She told me she had never been so un-happy and looked it. Totally trashed emotionally. The part of trying to be something that makes one seem "Good" is the issue. Yesterday I posted that the Watchtower focuses on visible results.

The Church I attend (I was a JW for 45 years) is "come as you are". The JWs would have a field day with video of us. Sunday night 6pm I have seen people look like they just got back from the beach and had put a cover-up on. BUT they were there, worshiped, learned, loved. I could not imagine going to another church, they are so like family that I call them that. Many do dress-up but it doesn’t matter here.

Worship to me is the part of the service where we tell God we love him, singing, response, prayer. The pastor's message is God telling us of his love for us. As a JW I thought the idea of Christian worship was confused, its not, its free. I can ask to sing a song on stage, one from current Christian radio or a 250 year old hymn. We propose Discipleship classes, various activities, its our church. The Church is us.

Pastor Greg was raised a PK (pastors kid) and did all the Church ministries. Then one day an older fellow asked him if he had a personal relationship with JESUS. Whoa. He stopped everything and re-evaluated. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship. A relationship based on love, not judgment, rule lists, technicalities, you know a check list . Folks here are very prayer oriented, decent, honorable, spiritual. We have rules we just don’t pull out yardsticks. Some of my friends can’t become deacons because they had divorced and were remarried. That is one of Apostle Paul’s rules, we live it but nobody has a stack of dossiers in a file cabinet on everyone. The WT does that.

Free your conscience, you knew that the partiers were up to no good and your mention of it meant it was an issue. You weren’t comfortable being worldly. I am glad, you are desirous of being a decent person. Partiers are competitive with how they score on the party hardy scale. JW’s have a “theocratic behavior” competition. Placements, hours, what talk level one is doing.

Being free and being a partner with Jesus, pleasing to him is a relationship. God love you, and blessings.

Fuzzy Paul

54

CO spins the continuous faithful and discreet slave doctrine - explaining how ONE GENERATION OF SLAVE FED ANOTHER for 1900 years!

by LUKEWARM in

here are my notes from his service talk theme:.

isa 65:3 = we live in a rich spiritual paradise (isa 65:3).

what is the history of the faithful and discreet slave?.

FuzzyPaul

It should matter that many a minimizing of Jesus has been propagated.

Jesus is called god by the most eloquent of the NT writers.

Hebrews 1: 5 - 9

The Son Superior to Angels

For to which of the angels did He ever say, You are My Son; today I have become Your Father, or again, I will be His Father, and He will be My Son ? When He again brings His firstborn into the world, He says, And all God's angels must worship Him. And about the angels He says:

He makes His angels winds,

and His servants a fiery flame;but about the Son:

Your throne, O God

and the scepter of Your kingdom is a scepter of justice.

You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;

this is why God, Your God, has anointed You,

rather than Your companions, with the oil of joy.

Hebrews 3: 7 - 11

the Holy Spirit says

Today, if you hear His voice,

do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,

on the day of testing in the desert,

where your fathers tested Me, tried [ Me ],

and saw My works for 40 years.

Therefore I was provoked with this generation

and said, "They always go astray in their hearts,

and they have not known My ways."

So I swore in My anger,"They will not enter My rest.

Then Hebrews states:

"of the Messiah ... it is said" , "that they would not enter His rest" ,

Then Hebrews ch4 reads :

So I swore in My anger,

they will not enter My rest.

And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world, 4 for somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this way:

And on the seventh day .

God rested from all His works

The Holy spirit said, then the Messiah said, then of God we read that he said the same thing about a "rest". Father < Son < Holy Spirit. Tri-une God. Three persons but they comprise one God.

In Acts 2 Peter makes his case for Jesus quoting a scripture about Yahweh and applying it to Jesus. Don't get all foofy about it just look at what it says there. Use another translation than the NWT. Holman Christian Standard Bible is my preferred but New Living Translation is good, The Amplified is good too. See them all at Biblegateway.com.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%201&version=HCSB

Jesus is called god "Mighty God" (Is. 9) (John1) ..., is worshipped (Mt 28), And in Hebrews the Messiah is god and in many other places. Just read the words. The Holman CSB has topical headings which greatly help understand the change of thought in the argument and what are OT quotes and so-on.

So, a great spirit becomes bound up in an embryo and grows into a man the Messiah. The same great spirit that created the universe and sustains it by his word. (Heb. 1: 2,3) God incarnated part of himself that created the universe and that miracle is deemed not possible for God to become a man and still be God to be worshipped as Hebrews reads?

Well, logically it is complex that God is a mediator with God for us by the words of the Holy Spirit attributed to God but so what? Just read what it says.

Fuzzy Paul

: , is forever and ever,

68

Watchtower cleans out Kingdom Hall Library's ...

by RR in

last night i got a call from a chap in the uk, who recently left the jw's.

he wanted to compare notes with his us counterparts.. he said that a few years ago, (i think about 2 years ago) the society cleaned out all the literature from every kingdom hall, particularly russell and rutherford books and anything prior to 1950. giving each hall a computer with the watchtower cd rom for them to use for research.

he wanted to know if the same was done in the states.

FuzzyPaul

I know, this is eight days too late. The KH I attended up till 4 years ago removed the library from a public area to the room previously used for storage and accessable only from an exterior door.

I am never going back and the longer I remain out the better I feel. I love being a Baptist. They are a family. Members of my kinfolk keep leaving and have joined me. We pray them out and into Church. All things are accomplished by prayer not by us.

Loving Regards,

Fuzzy

15

Does God need an Organization on earth today?

by wannabe in

does god need an organization on earth today?.

the word of the lord from jerusalem.

because he is jehovah's organization on earth today, right now!

FuzzyPaul

Howdy Wannabe,

Respectfully, you write like a Watchtower editor. Since I spent 45 years in the WT I can say that having learned from the GB at New York Conventions in the 60's lasting 6,7,8 days from 9am to 9pm.

The broaching of this subject indicates that you still feel under their control and have to argue the WT shackles off you. All this chatter to break the backbone of a miserable failed publishing corp. Stand - back - and - look - at - them. They all work for that War tower symbol. They see God in their buildings, works, litter-free zones, shaved faces, book bag, jacket and tie - IN EFFECT from the mandates of the GB. Proud in being visibly under the control of an association with a legislative body and their dictates.

You have no WT provided shackles that you didn’t put on yourself.

You ask a rhetorical question and then : answer it!!!!!!! Seems WT to me.

The other critical notion I make is this. Look at the response that the Holy Spirit could give you when you don’t think he can reach anyone asking for wisdom. So, God’s arm is too short for you?

You wrote:

" Reasonably now! What Member of any of the Mainline Religions, of this entire World could guide us into all truth? Even more! Reveal what is to occur in the future? I'll answer that! Absolutely none of them! Why not? They do not possess the Holy Spirit, is why not! Jesus told us very clearly that they could not accept the Holy Spirit! That they didn't see him, or know him. One more to cement my reasoning: "

There are too many qualifications for each statement.

Example: What Member ----- of any ------ of the Mainline ------ Religions, ------ of this entire World ------ could ------ guide us ------ into all truth?

There are 8 qualifications given in my quickie analysis. Get real, OK?

Think chess. Jesus has the white pieces and moves the one he needs to when he wants to. He uses all the pieces as needed. They are all indispensable. He removes any opposing pieces he wishes to. The traditional Christian religions and Rabbinic sages got it together long before the Grand Council proposed “proving the free-masonry of the Bible” via Russell. Then the WT was taken over by a LAWYER. The WT has Circuit and District overseers like the state courts have circuit and district judges above them with the GB as supreme court.

One of the WT books I threw out had a four page argument claiming a visible organization is a plain teaching of scripture. It was convoluted, complicated, and not plain. Jews have had no organization. Everyone was to follow the Mosaic law. Judgments made due to it were judgments not new legislation.

In Church I hear the Bible read and expounded upon by an educated individual. (Can you hear WT bias attack that reality?) The Holy Spirit guides people (Priests, Pastors, Elders, Presbyters, Deacons, men, women all included). Jesus died for people. The writings of Apostle Paul indicate forcefully that the Israelite people are going to be tops again. Our promises are guaranteed because theirs are. Spiritualizing stuff is so bogus and arbitrary. That said, I would pay attention to how matters work out for Israel the nation of the people of that land PROMISED TO THEM FOR ALL POSTERITY.

Free your conscience. Attend mass or any church. Observe. Don't let culture shock stop you. Mormons and Christian Science are based on free-masonry like the WT so don't go there.

And Jesus parable of the rich man in Hades instructs us to obey Moses and the Prophets so as to stay out of Hades torments. Get it?

Fuzzy

54

CO spins the continuous faithful and discreet slave doctrine - explaining how ONE GENERATION OF SLAVE FED ANOTHER for 1900 years!

by LUKEWARM in

here are my notes from his service talk theme:.

isa 65:3 = we live in a rich spiritual paradise (isa 65:3).

what is the history of the faithful and discreet slave?.

FuzzyPaul

Cameo-d,

What do televangelists have to do with it? An evangelist is an evangelist, the anti-christian chatter is notable. Get real, get Jesus. There is no salvation in any other name. He is The Way and The Truth and The Life.

Look what they've done to my song ma, look what they've done to my song. The only thing I could do half right and its turning out all wrong ma, look what they've done to my song. - a 60's song

When the truth is found to be lies
and all the joy within you dies
don't you want somebody to love
don't you need somebody to love
wouldn't you love somebody to love
you better find somebody to love - Jefferson airplane

Best wishes,

Paul

Not some WT org