Posts by OnTheWayOut

15

As time goes by, will there be "less" disfellowshipping?

by JH in

jw
friends

if i compare the congregation i attended 20 years ago, and the same one today, it would seem that it's just the core that's left.

many left or got df'd years ago.. and those that are left, are either ms, elders, or former ones.

and then there's the kids who grew up.. i wonder if the congregation is getting more and more refined as people are df'd?.

OnTheWayOut

So far the Society has gotten tighter and tighter.

Even though this is true, the JWD has spoken. It seems that the answer is YES.
As time goes by, will my leaky bucket stop leaking if I don't put anymore water in it? YES.

But the question still makes us wonder. If the Society keeps getting tighter and firmer, more
people leaving, what will they do when numbers are way down?

I speculate that they will try to be more lenient, allowing people to do what they want, saving
DF for actual unrepentent adulterers and seriously opposed apostates and the like.

Certain actions will be frowned on by some, but not officially against any rules.
By then, the WTS will be unable to sustain itself with small attendances and old faithfuls,
new people won't see a reason to "Religion Shop" there.

7

language: contradiction or not ?

by KAYTEE in

this is something that has always puzzled me.

genesis 10 v 5 - "...the population was spread about in their lands according to its tongues".

genesis 11 v 1 - "...now all the earth continued to be of one tongue and one set of words".

OnTheWayOut

You are welcome

OnthewayOut
I read that and at first it seemed a load of waffle, then I realised that it was a quote from the WT and this confirmed my original thoughts !!
They (the WT) didn't really explain anything

No arguement here, they often don't really explain anything. It's just important to them that
the WORD OF GOD never has contradictions. Some of their explanations really bend logic.
This one is not so bad.

11

Proof there is no God...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

http://www.400monkeys.com/god/

OnTheWayOut

I knew all the secrets of the world could be solved on the internet with google searches.

54

Special Assembly 2-Day 2,000 delegates and TWO baptisms!

by MinisterAmos in

jw
friends

just got back from the special one day assembly and had to share this important info.

only two baptisms today; two girls about 15-16 out of 2,000 attendees.. i stumbled more than two with my anti-witnessing.

i posted un expose material in the bathrooms along with pre and post nov 1995 1914 generation belief.. incidentally, attendance was down almost 25% over last year as well.

OnTheWayOut

our DO told us that we could trust anything that was said at the circuit assembly because they go strictly by the outline from the Society and that the script is looked at by "70 pairs of eyes" before it is released.

True in a sense. I have been at Circuit Assembly practice sessions before. Many brothers have some leeway on the words as long as they stick to the outline, but will have to let the DO or CO hear their finished, polished talk before the assembly. Many times, interviewed people do not come to practice, but the brothers hear what questions they will be answering.

The CO is different. It is often him, HIMSELF without the DO (depends on the DO's availability) that listens to these talks beforehand. Also, even if the DO is there, he trusts that his experienced CO's are going to stay in line. The Needs of the Circuit talk is without an outline from the WTS, it is discussed among the elders as the CO visits each congregation. He's very free to say what he feels needs to be said (staying in line with WTS thinking).

He may have gotten in trouble or the DO may have been paying little attention to his talk (as they often are taking care of business during the assembly). He may have been saying something that was okayed by higher-ups.

Everyone is saying 2 baptisms resulting from 12 months of preaching. Many prefer to wait for the 3-day district convention for their baptism. Still, the number is low and doesn't replace faders, DF's , deaths. That might be part of the MAINSTREAM RELIGION thinking of your CO- allow young ones to pursue their goals and maybe they will pursue WTS goals with them.

17

Pioneer Letter

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

i was talking to my mom and she has begun fulltime pioneering.. she is grieving over the loss of her son and its all just too much.. i told her to quit pioneering and take care of her.

she said , but i gave my word.. i said it makes me sick that you feel the pressure to do this and not give yourself time.

she is already feeling rundown and beginning to hate going out and it's just the second month!.

OnTheWayOut

What happens if you don't meet up to your obligation of pioneering?

The brothers assign two elders to talk to and encourage you.
If your hours are low along the way thru the year, this might take place around February or March.
They rarely encourage you to stop pioneering, instead insist that you can do better by focusing on schedule or sacrifice.

Tell your mother this- You hurt the pioneer average if you cannot do the hours. It doesn't effect that average if you stop pioneering. People will understand that you are going through a personal crisis. Don't continue on with a self-established obligation if it will do you harm. Carrying guilt for the next year every month that you don't get your 70 hours or burning out in one year trying is much worse than stepping aside from a privilege of service.

21

The Procedure of Disfellowshiping done by the WatchtowerYour Views

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

the procedure of disfellowshiping done by the watchtoweryour views the inspiration of this post comes from two .

individuals who have recently gone thorough .

some challenges with the watchtower society.. one was questioning the elders about the un.

OnTheWayOut

Excellent post Blondie,

5) why the elders could take notes and the person could not
6) why the person could not know ahead of time who was accusing them (Matthew 18:15-17)
7) why the person was not told what they were being accused of until the walked into the room with the 3 elders
8) why when the person found out what they were accused of, a recess wasn't taken, allowing the person to gather information or witnesses for the defense
9) Why 3 elders made the decision rather than the whole congregation voting on it (the way the Bible Students did it and still do)

Particularly with these points and your insight quote, while I was a participant in the elder process, I think I was always fair, but I am devastated by these thoughts.

9

Doublethink: to hold two contradictory beliefs simultaneously

by sass_my_frass in

jw
friends

it's been a while since the last orwell thread.

we went to a great play of 1984 last night.

poor winston, surrounded by insanity, forcing himself to learn that two plus two could be four, or five, or three, or all of them at once; whatever big brother says, to be allowed to live.

OnTheWayOut

Good thoughts, AlanF

My wife tries to understand what my disagreements with WTS are, we start the
discussion, she tries to defend the position for a hot second. She realizes I have
thoroughly thought it out, I have questions for her answers, then suddenly she is
too busy to keep discussing it, we'll talk more later. We never resume that
discussion.

It starts again the next time I had any reaction to a meeting point. Ends the same.

6

What other incorrect beliefs are you aware of?

by return visitor in

OnTheWayOut

I was the chairman at a public talk around 1999, this visiting elder gives the talk with a
deep discussion of THIS GENERATION. The problem is, his discussion is "old light"
about the people alive in 1914. His talk was out of step with the change, wasting about
20 minutes on that part.

He walks down from the platform, there are about 7 or 8 deep study publishers wondering
if I will say anything, the rest are clueless. (Remember, I had doubts, but I was fully cooperative
with WTS teachings at the time- I promoted them even if I wasn't sure about them)
As soon as I knew his talk was going in the wrong direction from new light, I go to the library
and get the 1995 WT. I bring it up to the platform and read word-for-word from it.
"Thank you Bro. Elder for your time and preparation. Keep in mind that the Nov. 1st, 1995 WT,
page... says....(read an entire paragraph).

After I come down from the platform, he approaches me at the rear of the Hall,
"What was that about?"
I had to explain it to him.

7

language: contradiction or not ?

by KAYTEE in

this is something that has always puzzled me.

genesis 10 v 5 - "...the population was spread about in their lands according to its tongues".

genesis 11 v 1 - "...now all the earth continued to be of one tongue and one set of words".

OnTheWayOut

Here is the JW answer to your question-

***

w78 7/15 p. 32 Questions From Readers***

Questions

From Readers

?

Genesis 11:1 says that before the confusion of tongues at Babel, all the earth spoke one language; yet, earlier, Genesis 10:5 seems to suggest that various tongues already existed. How can this be understood?

Speaking of Noah’s descendants through his grandson Javan, Genesis 10:5 says: "From these the population of the isles of the nations was spread . . . , each according to its tongue, according to their families, by their nations."

Genesis chapter 10 presents what is commonly known as the "Table of the Nations." It lists 70 families or nations descending from Noah’s sons, giving some indication of where these eventually spread to and settled. Of course, Moses recorded this centuries after the Flood and the confusion of languages at Babel. So he was in position to bring together in what is now Genesis chapter 10 details of how things worked out over the centuries.

After Genesis chapter 10 gives the details of the "Table of the Nations," chapter 11 takes up the narrative or chronological history with Babel and shows how it was that many languages came about and why peoples spread over the globe.—Gen. 11:1-9.

Thus the references in the 10th chapter to various languages are not to be understood as meaning that these developed prior to the confusion of languages at Babel. (Gen. 10:5, 20, 31, 32) But those tongues were later found among Noah’s descendants, whose lineage is provided in that chapter.

16

Is God Self-Sufficient

by Undecided in

jw
friends

does god need worship and love from other entities?

it seems so by the way he made intelligent creatures.

if they are to be accepted as his children they must conform to his designated way of life and thinking.

OnTheWayOut

It would seem that God needs the worship and love from other entities.

Even as free moral agents, we have no hopes, according to the Bible and religion, unless we worship day and night.
I was asked by a householder once, "Don't you think God, Jehovah, Jesus, Allah wanted people to enjoy life?
Why would he want you to spend your life now preaching door to door, then eternity praising him?
Is he that insecure?