Posts by OnTheWayOut

44

Money woes show it ain't the truth

by OnTheWayOut in

jehovahs people do not beg for money.

[...] we have never considered it proper to solicit money for the lords cause, after the common custom .

it is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.

OnTheWayOut

Start Page two replies:

Simon, I agree. I will tie your thought in with Mad Irishman's thought.
The average member can give what he wants and nobody will say anything personally to him. It's a beautiful thing, but at the same time that member is bombarded by all those things telling him that the congregation isn't donating enough, the attendees at the assembly are not donating enough, the need is great and the members are not showing their love and faith in Jehovah, but are taking too many vacations or wanting nice things in their home when they don't need them as badly as the Governing Body needs a heated pool in that cold NY state climate.

Plus Mad Irishman, YES- as a member of the body of elders, I felt "coerced." We had shortfalls and they asked each elder to give a set portion of that if they could (and you better back up your "I can't do it.") As a member, after dropping twenty bucks in the box at the assembly, then hearing how they are still several thousand dollars short, I felt coerced to drop in more. Maybe nobody would know, but members are trained to know that Jehovah knows you can skip a decent restaurant tonight and settle for less while out of town for the assembly.

Phizzy, He's just no good with money. Somehow, He just can't handle money.

44

Money woes show it ain't the truth

by OnTheWayOut in

jehovahs people do not beg for money.

[...] we have never considered it proper to solicit money for the lords cause, after the common custom .

it is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.

OnTheWayOut

Page one:

ToesUp, it's sad that many of them wouldn't recognize your comment as sarcasm.

JW GoneBad, it is stuff like that sheet that shows they are using (in their own words from the opening quote) "the various begging devices in the name of our Lord" and that to such a Lord, it would be "offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing..."

cognac, they told congregations to set a monthly amount and suggested ways that it should not be small. They have just asked for something like 2 thousand dollars from an average sized congregation for the C.O. expenses. They have had videos about contributions. The May 2015 episode of JW Broadcasting had Stephen Lett revealing a shortfall between projected income and expenditures for the forthcoming fiscal period. As part of the 2015 program of conventions for Jehovah’s Witnesses, a video was released that portrays a young girl holding a coin in her hands while in a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, imagining buying an ice cream cone after their meeting. She then sees her mother putting money in a contribution box at the Kingdom Hall, and rethinks her plans for her coin. She envisions new Kingdom Halls being built along with JW literature being produced, and then happily puts her own money in the contribution box as well.

I see these things as "all the members have been hearing is how they have to cough up more."

Stealth, it goes back to George Carlin: Jehovah "loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”

51

What is the best debate you've ever read on this board...

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

who won, and why?.

the rebel..

OnTheWayOut

OnTheWayOut's original post:

Can anyone really "WIN" a debate on the internet?

It's typically a bunch of one-sided digs and "Who got in the best zinger?"

But if they can win, an atheist won the best argument on this forum.

==================================================================

The Rebel's post:

" OntheWayOut":-" can anyone WIN a debate on the Internet?

its typically a bunch of one sided digs and " who's got the best zinger?"

==================================================================

You didn't copy and paste my comment. It's changed slightly. I am not sure if you are trying to improve or correct my original post, whether you agree or disagree. It feels like you are on the verge of starting the best debate every on this board.

Flag

51

What is the best debate you've ever read on this board...

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

who won, and why?.

the rebel..

OnTheWayOut

Can anyone really "WIN" a debate on the internet?

It's typically a bunch of one-sided digs and "Who got in the best zinger?"

But if they can win, an atheist won the best argument on this forum.

44

Money woes show it ain't the truth

by OnTheWayOut in

jehovahs people do not beg for money.

[...] we have never considered it proper to solicit money for the lords cause, after the common custom .

it is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.

OnTheWayOut

Heaven, yes- along with a GB member telling everyone they are spending more than they make. (But not in those kind of terms, more like "expenses exceed donations.")

stuckinarut2, sure. Like giving financial reports at assemblies where they have set the "cost" of the assembly so high and report a deficit NO MATTER WHAT.

sparrowdown, I may run with such a statement anytime money comes up. Good thought.

JW GoneBad, thanks for the compliment.

44

Money woes show it ain't the truth

by OnTheWayOut in

jehovahs people do not beg for money.

[...] we have never considered it proper to solicit money for the lords cause, after the common custom .

it is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.

OnTheWayOut

Jehovah’s people do not beg for money. […] “We have never considered it proper to solicit money for the Lord’s cause, after the common custom . . . It is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our Lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.” – From: God’s Kingdom Rules, Page 196

This alone is enough to open the eyes of many members to see that Watchtower is not the one true religion. The only thing they still seem to hold to is that they don't pass an actual collection plate passed around to embarass members during the meeting. But the body of elders have the C.O. to do that to them and attempt to shame them to increase donations.

Ever since they took all the money from all the congregations, all the members have been hearing is how they have to cough up more.

Now the members have a whole bunch more to chew on. Cutting back on printing again, cutting back on Bethel workers again, money problems with construction.

Members are not going to all be fooled by this. Further, if they donate the monthly expenses at the Kingdom Hall, they won't put money in the Worldwide Work fund and they won't have more money to donate at the Assembly Hall.

But I want to just focus on the simple idea that they do indeed solicit funds now, contrary to what they have always said. They beg and coerce. They have regular articles on how the members can outright donate, put Watchtower in their will, send jewelry, name them as life insurance beneficiaries, etc. etc. etc. They have addressed this issue on jw. org and even have a cartoon about children giving up their ice cream money.

Notice how they still lean on the same claims: http://wol.jw.org/de/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102012165
Who are they fooling?

9

wait lets get this straight the gb discourages annointed nutballs to get together and talk about the bible

by poopie in

jw
friends

but they get together every wensday and talk about the bible is that hypocritical

OnTheWayOut

If you are so all-fired sure that you are directed by Holy Spirit, you would do what you think that Holy Spirit is directing you to do, and not what some men are telling you to do (or not to do).

15

Asking For More Money Again

by rosesinbloom in

we had another letter read this week from the 'slave' that asked for more money again.. it asked for a resolution to be passed by all congregations in support of the circuit overseer to pay their expenses and medical expense was included in there.. a resolution was put on the floor and voted upon and agreed by show of hands that our congregation would send over $2,000 for the year 2016.. the society broke it down to how much it would be per year for each publisher but i do not remember what they suggested.. i was glad i was listening in and not present this week because it would have been obvious i did not support the resolution because my hand would not have been up when the attendance took a count.. has anyone here also had the letter read at their service meeting this week?.

OnTheWayOut

I believe in the past, the once-a-year letter was to pay for the C.O's insurance. So this sounds like nothing new. It's sounding a bit high for one year. I doubt that amount actually gets sent off to some insurance company.

Here's the thing: their membership is their primary source of money. If members are squeezed for money like balloons could be squeezed for their air, there's only so much there. If members used to donate a great deal at conventions and assemblies and now have to contribute more at their local congregation to pay the bills and meet Watchtower's inflated rates for insurance, then the same members will take it out of their assembly donation money and say "I gave at the Kingdom Hall." The balloon only holds so much, especially when you don't go to college, don't work overtime very often, need time off for conventions.

10

Crises of Conscience by Raymond franz hardcopy book

by Olivia Wilde in

can anyone tell me where is the best place to buy the hardcopy book from?

i need it for a friend, i need to buy it from a place that the proceeds go to a good cause, not amazon,..

OnTheWayOut

I remember paying a bunch for the book when Ray was alive, but bound print versions seem enormously expensive now, much more so than when I bought it (and passed it on to others). Ray and Cynthia are gone. Do yourself a favor and download a free copy from the internet and donate $40 to a proper charity.

I am all for helping out people when they have given so much, but I think Ray and Cynthia would love knowing that the book is freely available and widely read years later.

6

Bending Truth- A look at Cognitive Dissonance by Theramin Trees

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

a reflection on the importance of acknowledging that we can all be manipulated.. this is an excellent presentation on the problems with leaving the group, problems with disagreeing with the group, why recruiting children is important to religions.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iauhr-trkhy.

OnTheWayOut

John Aquila, while they would never admit to such a thing, I do tend to think that recruiting is not really a think they are after right now. They are trying to have retention of members and get donations from members. They know that recruitment costs money in literature and they are not really able to spend money right now. Children recruitment is definitely very much their focus just to keep some getting baptized at assembly halls.

under the radar, glad to help. I hope it helps your friends.

sir82, they have painted themselves into a corner with poor recruitment and encouragement to stay poor among members.

KateWild, I tend to agree. Current leaders are in crisis mode. Someone will change everything eventually.

Vidiot, very true.