zarco

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Posts by zarco

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  41

  Question for Elders or Ex-Elders re: Marriage

  by mya in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i was what you call "born into the truth.

  i'm not practicing the religion now and i was never baptized.

  my fiance is baptist, we care having his pastor whom i very much like marry us.

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  zarco

  Blondie,

  I do not think that is true, although I only know what goes on in my area. The issue is baptism. The issue is not inactive vs active.

  zarco
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  41

  Question for Elders or Ex-Elders re: Marriage

  by mya in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i was what you call "born into the truth.

  i'm not practicing the religion now and i was never baptized.

  my fiance is baptist, we care having his pastor whom i very much like marry us.

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• 

  zarco

  Minimus - was your daughter baptized? If not the CO should not have removed anyone. mya is not baptized.

  I realize it is insane to debate WT policy - but just wanted to clarify for mya

  zarco
• 
  41

  Question for Elders or Ex-Elders re: Marriage

  by mya in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i was what you call "born into the truth.

  i'm not practicing the religion now and i was never baptized.

  my fiance is baptist, we care having his pastor whom i very much like marry us.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  zarco

  mya,

  Nothing would prohibit your family attending your wedding other than their own conscience. If you are not baptized and get married in a church your family can attend with no consequences from the Congregation. Your father is probably afraid of what others may think and maybe you, or your fiance, should talk to him about his conscience.

  zarco
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  95

  Starting my story...very long

  by Synergy in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  [the watchtower, july 15, 1961 issue, page 420: .

  [the watchtower, july 1, 1963 issue, page 413: .

  [the watchtower, july 15, 1974 issue, page 442: .

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  zarco

  Synergy,

  I am so very sorry for your lost childhood. Your account is very difficult to read. The organization has completely failed you. Your father and especially the Elders "handling" the judicial case were complete idiots.

  I know this will sound awkward since those claiming to worship him failed you, but may Jehovah bring every happiness to you and yours.

  zarco
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  48

  Is the Watchtower beginning to lose its grip on its members?

  by Gill in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have seen a counsellor on and off since leaving watchtower land.

  she has made efforts to find out more about jehovah's witnesses.. we were discussing why my jw family (not my husbands' they shun us as if we smell bad!!!!

  ) are beginning to spend more time with us.

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  zarco

  Doubting Bro,

  You are probably right that our Congregation might be a little different, but I am not so sure. We travel the world and we find many kindred spirits and maybe the indivuduals we meet do not represent the majority, but it seems to me that many prominent brothers (sisters also) do not beleive all that the Society has to say. I assume that the same is true for many publishers. When a comment was made quoting Bro Loesch regarding the Society's beleif that we are deep in the time f the end, you would not beleive the sneers even from pioneers and other long time servants.

  Regarding the comment on education, a Gb member made this comment during a dinner. He mentioned several folks who left Bethel to pursue education at the behest of there parents which resulted in the crack down on education.

  zarco
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  48

  Is the Watchtower beginning to lose its grip on its members?

  by Gill in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have seen a counsellor on and off since leaving watchtower land.

  she has made efforts to find out more about jehovah's witnesses.. we were discussing why my jw family (not my husbands' they shun us as if we smell bad!!!!

  ) are beginning to spend more time with us.

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  2. 
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  zarco

  I sent you a private message
• 
  48

  Is the Watchtower beginning to lose its grip on its members?

  by Gill in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have seen a counsellor on and off since leaving watchtower land.

  she has made efforts to find out more about jehovah's witnesses.. we were discussing why my jw family (not my husbands' they shun us as if we smell bad!!!!

  ) are beginning to spend more time with us.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  zarco

  The grip on members has decreased through the years. Within the last few years a few parents with children in Bethel encouraged their children to pursue an education that would allow them to take care of their needs and support a lifetime in serving Jehovah. As a result, a few key people left Bethel to follow their parent’s advice and this action resulted in the Society’s “crack down” on education.

  Regarding the topic of this thread, of course the Society is losing control of the rank and file. But pockets of true thinking exist and in those pockets kids go to college or pursue training, individuals understand the lunacy of some of the comments in the Watchtower (see the Feb 1 WT on subjection even in abusive circumstances), they support one another and the congregation becomes a haven for all who desire to live moral lives and worship a creator.

  I encourage all to search for a place to worship Jehovah and not the organization. Yes the organization is losing control, but this is a good thing. It allows those who truly worship the Creator to differentiate themselves from the lunacy.

  There are many fine people who act with the mind of Christ, they give to the poor, the search for truth, they live good lives, please do not discard the many millions of people who live this way as Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is a small vocal leadership group that do not live up to God’s principles and no true Christian believes everything they say, rather they respectfully examine their comments for truth.
  
  zarco
• 
  356

  Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

  by Seeker4 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).

  and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.

  people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!

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  zarco

  Quandry,

  I look forward to your continued comments. Thanks for sharing your experience.
• 
  356

  Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

  by Seeker4 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).

  and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.

  people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!

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  zarco

  AuldSoul,

  You said “I agree, freedom would have to include searching for truth without retribution. I didn't have that freedom. I have suffered retribution for seeking truth”.

  I am truly sorry that you have suffered retribution. You have proven by your comments that you seek what is right not your own agenda and to be punished for that is awful.

  But I think freedom is more than that. Freedom would have to include helping others search for truth without fear of retribution or experiencing retribution, as well, would it not? Freedom would also be known by great freeness of speech, would it not?

  Freedom does include great freeness of speech. But when one decides - and we all decide whether to belong to an organization or not - that freeness is reduced somewhat by the ability/will of the organization to change. For instance one could not freely yell out “fire” in a crowded building unless there really was a fire. One could yell out such information in a home or another forum where the size of the audience would determine the appropriateness of such a comment. If you yelled fire in my house I could quickly determine the truth of such freeness of speech. If you yelled the same words in a dark crowded concert hall I may not be able to determine the truth of your words because of the crowd or other.

  In other words freedom of speech should be correlated to the environment in which one expresses such speech. In the organization, freedom of speech is allowed but only through limited channels. The downside is not all speech is heard, the upside is that if such speech is heard then the influence of such speech can affect 6 million people. In contrast this board allows complete freedom of speech but the potential influence of such speech is limited to those who hear and trust it.

  What retribution I have suffered I cannot possibly suffer again, unless I first subject myself again to that which initially sought to restrain my freeness of speech. I can truly compare, having had experiential knowledge of both circumstances, and state with certainty: I now have great freeness of speech, I now have freedom to seek truth; I did not previously have great freeness of speech and did not have freedom to seek truth.
  Now you have freedom of speech and freedom to seek truth and you have people within the organization which sought to restrain your speech listening to you. Do you, then, stand for freedom and stand opposed to that which limits freedom?

  I stand for freedom of ideas and expression and I understand that such freedom of expression can at times can be restricted to allow the testing of the expression before allowing the vulnerable to hear and react to it.

  Zarco
• 
  356

  Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

  by Seeker4 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).

  and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.

  people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!

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• 

  zarco

  Auld Soul,
  
  You said "I understand your intent, but isn't it possible to be both for something good, helpful, and healthy and opposed to things that are bad, retarding, and damaging? I have a difficult time getting Jesus positive message from Matthew 23, for instance. He was plainly opposed to the oppressive bureaucracy of the Pharisees that stood between the people and God".
  Thanks for your clarification. Yes one can be opposed to something. But first one must know what core principles one stands for. After that any opposition to such principles can be opposed. I agree with your point – thanks.
  
  You said, "I will continue to follow in his footsteps to the best of my ability, as I trust you will do to the best of yours. I have no quarrel with you for your choices, but I do hope you know your choice is not the only right one".
  
  I agree with the sentiments expressed in your closing. I do know that my choice may not be the right one – that is why I am here.
  
  Zarco