Posts by zarco
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34
If Shunning Didn't Exist, Would JW's Exist In Their Current Form?
by AllTimeJeff inin my opinion, this is the crux of the matter where ex jw's are concerned.. so many religions have disagreements with their members.
but you can disagree, research, question, and leave if that is your wish.
you may receive some sanction depending on the religion, but no shunning is required in the major faith's and religions of christendom.
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zarco
Jeff,
I agree with you. The organization is completely designed to force behaviors that they want by introducing negative consequences if you do not do them.
1. Field service is an activity that no one wants to do – at least the door to door part – but they have a time counting process to enforce the behavior
2. Few want to attend all the endless meetings – but if you don’t you are viewed as weak and some in the congregation stop socializing because the WTBS encourages association with only spiritual people
3. If you question the “slave” – you are labeled an apostate and the organization mandates a judicial committee, which is a pretty severe consequence to what many times are sincere questions
4. Few want to spend their resources sitting for 3 days at a convention listening to someone read from a manuscript – again the consequences of not going are informal shunning
If the negative consequences were to be removed and if members could practice free will the Witnesses would be far different and only the hard core believers would stay.
Interestingly, if what the Bible says about the Christ is true. He used positive reinforcement to attract people. He refreshed, healed, fed and taught. He didn’t seem to have any problem with meeting attendance – he met and exceeded the needs of those he served. I think any religion must pass the “Christ test” to be sustainable long term.
The Witness religion is a new religion that will not be around long term in any meaningful way unless they begin to provide positive things to people who do the things they want done.
zarco
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79
A Question Ex-Jws and Atheist On This Site
by Blue Grass ini have a question for the regulars on this site which are mainly ex-jws and atheist.
my first question is just for the atheist.
why do you guys spend so much time discussing and researching a book you believe to be fiction?
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zarco
Why do you guys spend so much time discussing and researching a book you believe to be fiction? Wouldn't it make more sense to devote your time to discussing things you believe in rather than a fairy tale?
The study of literature and history are rewarding pursuits for most. For most college students a study of western civilization is required. Atheist or not, the bible has had a profound influence on the world in which we live. Refusing to spend time studying the bible would limit ones understanding of humanity. The confluence of spirituality, the arts and sciences is where it is at, in my humble opinion.
Fading and ex-Witnesses hang around because we have been through a unique experience. Most have had the very foundations of our belief and social systems torn to pieces. That trauma is tough enough without some sort of support or at least shared experiences. For some, the experience of leaving the Witnesses may cause them to experience self-doubt and a reticence to trust any authority. Realizing that others have gone through the transition can make the healing and rebuilding processes go more smoothly.
An finally, there are many intelligent people on the board. And for me, my education with regard to religious history and the history of the Witnesses has been greatly enhanced from being a part.
Best,
zarco
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130
So long and thanks for all the fish.
by reniaa inhere is a goodbye thread for people who have decided to move on and leave jwn.
posting a message for everyone or just some..
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zarco
All the best to you, Reniaa
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71
What Did You Have For Dinner? Thread
by Yizuman inwife and i had steak, baked potatoes and peas.
wife also had before dinner was sald w/ ranch dressing w/ bacon bits.
(edit, forgot the bits).
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zarco
Leolaia - Our favorite of all time is also closed, Zare’ on Sacramento in the City was amazing. It was small and had wonderful Persian influenced fish and lamb dishes. Zare moved to Napa for a couple of years, but his place didn’t take off and has closed. He is back in the City with Zare at Fly Trap on Folsom. So at least we get to enjoy similar food again. We will try Tadich's next time we are in the City.
For casual in the City, Tartine in the Mission District is pretty special as is Café Zoetrope on Columbus a couple of blocks from the Transamerica Building, relatively close to City Lights bookstore. I can picture you spending all day at City Lights. I don’t spend all day there, but I do enjoy going.
Surprisingly, the East Bay has some really great places. Chez Panisse is wonderful. We like the café upstairs. It is cheaper than the dining room and anything Alice Waters does is pretty special. She has helped Berkeley Public Schools transition to a more healthy food program. We admire her as a person and many restaurants in the area imitate her style and use of local foods. Near Chez Pannise is the Cheese Board – a vegetarian pizza place. They play jazz most every evening, it is a fun place to hang out. When school is in session you usually have a to wait in a long line.
When you come to the East Bay, let us know. There are some really nice places within walking distance from our house. A long walk, but doable. Which comes in handy if I drink a little more wine than anticipated.
Zarco
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Why is the act of stopping meeting attendance so significant?
by dozy inone aspect of the leaving jw process has long puzzled me why can a fading jw become mentally disinterested , miss loads of meetings , become irregular in the ministry , perhaps even become involved in minor worldly conduct without too much concern from relatives or the elders over a period of years , even decades.
yet as soon as they make it become known that they are not going to the meetings anymore, all hell breaks loose.
elders dust down their od books and come calling on shepherding visits , perhaps for the first time for many years.
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zarco
The Witnesses equate meeting attendance with worship. So, in their mind, if one stops attending the meetings they also stop serving Jehovah. That is why some faders attend a meeting now and then as it seem to placate the judgement from them.
zarco
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71
What Did You Have For Dinner? Thread
by Yizuman inwife and i had steak, baked potatoes and peas.
wife also had before dinner was sald w/ ranch dressing w/ bacon bits.
(edit, forgot the bits).
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zarco
Leolaia - We love eating in the City. We have not been to the Tadich Grill although a couple of our favorite places are in the Financial District. We get in a rut and end up going to the same 4 or 5 places. Now that we are not so busy on Saturday mornings we get to enjoy the Farmer’s Market, both the one in the City and in our little town.
It would have been fun to watch the young boy eat a 3/4 lb. burger. I am sure he will have a story to tell his friends when he gets back home. We have a special event coming up and we are going to the House of Prime Rib. It will be my first time there. I will probably eat too much, oh well.
We do get to the South Bay from time to time. If traffic is light we are really close. Let’s try to get together in the fall when your schedule eases up. You are welcome up our way and we are more than happy to head down your way.
All the best,
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26
Do you pray these days?
by highdose ini was wondering if anyone here prays anymore?
what do you call god?
what role do you think god plays in your life?
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zarco
Captain Dan,
I am sorry about your brother. I hope as time passes that the pain fades while the memories stay vivid.
zarco
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31
Hey...no more lurking...
by pmgirl inhey,.
this is my first post on this forum after months of reading and lurking on here.
i'm glad to be able to say that my husband and i finally sent our letter saying we want out and are wait to hear back for a potential jc meeting--that we won't be attending.. we had so many doubts it was impossible for us to continue living the lie.
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zarco
pmgirl,
Welcome. You are very brave to provide a letter. It is a courageous act. You now have 99.7 percent of the population to build new friendships and relationships. All the best to you!
zarco
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26
Do you pray these days?
by highdose ini was wondering if anyone here prays anymore?
what do you call god?
what role do you think god plays in your life?
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zarco
I dont pray anymore unless we have Witnesses at our home. Then I usually pray before the meal or ask someone to do so. I too had what I thought was a very strong relationship with god. I felt his guidance in my life and in making difficult decisions. I still believe in the possiblility that he is real and actually am hopeful. Sadly, evidence of his existence seems a little in short supply. I try to remain humble enough that if evidence is presented I will respond. The only time I miss praying is when I worry about our children. It always seemed comforting to me to pray for their protection.
zarco