after much deliberation, i decided to go "out" at the end of a public talk.
it didn't go down too well, but at least i was able to give some of my reasons for leaving.. i've put some of the details on my homepage.
i'll update it more when i get the time and the strength.
LT -
Well done! The denigration of Jesus is what got to me also, although I am still "in" physically. Fabulous talk and thanks for the caring manner in which you exited. You dignified the congregation with your expressions of love and sincerity.
Zarco
i would like to pose some questions that may challenge your thoughts, if i may.... .
former elders, while i may commend you all for seeing the real truth on about the so called "truth" and thus leaving the borg for what it really & truly is, a lie.
former elders, have you ever thought about or attempted to contact anyone that have been disfellowshipped by your involvement in the j.c.?
nvr,
I did not intend to make anyone feel guilty, we all make mistakes. I do not require any apology from you.
I personally have not shunned anyone nor disfellowshipped anyone as it against my conscience. I would under all circumstances use the legal system if a case of child abuse or murder was involved. I realize that many elders followed their conscience when disfellowshipping abusers and the outcome was a good one. The process was a bad one. A legal/judicial solution would have been best.
zarco
i would like to pose some questions that may challenge your thoughts, if i may.... .
former elders, while i may commend you all for seeing the real truth on about the so called "truth" and thus leaving the borg for what it really & truly is, a lie.
former elders, have you ever thought about or attempted to contact anyone that have been disfellowshipped by your involvement in the j.c.?
willyloman -
Thanks for your perspective. I guess mine is that the judicial committee does not have the authority to act. The congregation itself does have that authority and could rightly exercise it if it so choose to do so. A congregational action seems a principled approach since it allows a full disclosure and collective decision making.
My reason for encouraging an apology is that I believe that repentance and conversion are required by a Christian and if one acted unscripturally by serving on a committee and disfellowshipping someone he must repent (regret) serving in that capacity and a conversion (reconciliation) with what God intends.
Regarding being involved in an unscriptural process and having something good result out of it - like protecting the congregation from an abuser - does not make the process right nor does it prove to be the most effective process for protecting the congregation - a legal approach would be much more effective.
zarco
i would like to pose some questions that may challenge your thoughts, if i may.... .
former elders, while i may commend you all for seeing the real truth on about the so called "truth" and thus leaving the borg for what it really & truly is, a lie.
former elders, have you ever thought about or attempted to contact anyone that have been disfellowshipped by your involvement in the j.c.?
Confession,
Thanks for keeping young people safe from a molester.
Possibly a better course would be to use the legal/judicial system to assure that the step to protect young ones is a permanent one at least the individual would be "marked" by being on a sex offender list and likely would spend a good deal of time in jail and in counseling.
The reasons I think an apology is necessary for disfellowshipping is that a judicial committee is not sanctioned or even identified by any scriptural teaching. Rather when a disfellowshipping occurred the early Church/Congregation heard the evidence and made a decision. This accomplished much in that the Congregation was warned by hearing the evidence, the "sinner" had his/her day to present a defense and if the Congregation needed protecting it was a collective decision.
When as elders we DF people for any sin, we are acting a judge with out training, we are involved in a process that is not sanctioned in scripture (judicial committe), we are forcing a set of consequences on the DF'd person that are for the most part man made.
In cases were the physical well being of the Congregation is in danger, a legal solution is best rather than a JC.
Zarco
i would like to pose some questions that may challenge your thoughts, if i may.... .
former elders, while i may commend you all for seeing the real truth on about the so called "truth" and thus leaving the borg for what it really & truly is, a lie.
former elders, have you ever thought about or attempted to contact anyone that have been disfellowshipped by your involvement in the j.c.?
In all seriousness this thread should be about the apology and response not about the reasons for action or the self justification
zarco
i would like to pose some questions that may challenge your thoughts, if i may.... .
former elders, while i may commend you all for seeing the real truth on about the so called "truth" and thus leaving the borg for what it really & truly is, a lie.
former elders, have you ever thought about or attempted to contact anyone that have been disfellowshipped by your involvement in the j.c.?
Fortunately for me all the other DF'ings I was involved with were cut and dried folks who wanted out. Do the folks you DF'd feel the same way, do you know that? I am completely amazed that the former elders on this forum did not follow their conscience. What kind of people are you?
i would like to pose some questions that may challenge your thoughts, if i may.... .
former elders, while i may commend you all for seeing the real truth on about the so called "truth" and thus leaving the borg for what it really & truly is, a lie.
former elders, have you ever thought about or attempted to contact anyone that have been disfellowshipped by your involvement in the j.c.?
How dare the former elders on this forum to try to explain away the reason they Df'd someone. This is not a spiritual teaching, it is not a loving arrangement, do not explain your self rather reach out to those you have harmed and apologize. The healing is not about you it is about those you harmed.
zarco
every time a circuit and district overseer visited our congregation,the elders always wanted a show of hands from the congregation to see if we would pay for their car expenses and travel.sometimes the congregation would pay for airline tickets.it was always approved.. do you know if the idea came from the local congregations to pay?
did the wts send out letters to each congregation to see if they would pay?
we know that the wts always get what they want.. it's amazing how we paid $250-$400 for each overseer visit and the wts paid nothing..
No untaxed income is involved. It is a reimbursement of expenses only with receipts being required.
Regarding any gifts of cash provided to the CO/DO from individual members, no tax is required unless such gifts exceed $10,000 from any one individual which is pretty unlikely ( US Tax law - maybe different elsewhere)
zarco
i now have a life beyond jehovah's witnesses.
i am able to impact kids in their development into young adults who have risen above challenging circumstances.
these children are always impoverished but may be challenged in other ways, as well.. my job is to mold them into productive citizens, contributing adults.
AuldSoul,
Great news about your joy and satisfaction in helping young ones break the cycle of poverty. Teaching and molding of young minds and lives is such a responsibility and as you state so rewarding.
In addition, you have proven to teach and mold old minds on this forum. As with your secular work your efforts here change lives and breaks cycles of erroneous beleifs and behaviors.
Well done on both counts.
zarco
having read posts over the last few months, i have come to the conclusion that there must be alot of 'active' jw's who still regularly attend meetings/field service etc.. don't you feel that by posting your many and varied topics, usually complaining/disagreeing with the wbts, that you are being hypocritical?
when you post your information, obtained sometimes in an questionable manner, doesn't it make you question your own underhanded actions?.
you converse with many on this forum who are disfellowshipped/dissasociated, yet if you knew who these ones were, face to face, you would not give them the time of day!
Winnie,
I don't have a problem with ones who are open to all about their feelings. I have a major problem with those I see are still going to meetings, being nice and friendly to their faces, and then bitching behind their backs. You can't have it both ways! Regardless of circumstances, it it a very two faced thing to do!
So you would rather no JWs be on this board? Where would you get information on the JWs? This is a JW discussion forum. If we take your logic to the extreme this board becomes the domain of only XJWs with no access to current info, because in your world current info would be contrained because those attending the meetings would not be "two faced" and talk/pass on info to those here.
If you are against the JWs, you would want insiders to pass along information - it helps your cause.
If you are for truth - you would never want to restrict information and views, because from all of us come opinions and thoughts that enable understanding. When you want to restrict viewpoints you become just like the WT in hearing only what you want to be heard.
zarco
