Posts by Duncan

most of us now laugh at the witnesses, but i think compared to some others they are quite reasonable ( notice i said compared).. so which religion has the most crazy beliefs.. i dont have much knowledge of these religions but i'll mention what i know , feel free to add your own points or correct me if i'm wrong.. i'll start with.. mormons,.

believe jews migrated to america.and that we are angels on earth being tested.. monnies,.

believe rev moon is jesus on earth.they also use (missuse) quatum physics to prove their beliefs.. scientology,.

Duncan

Good Thread, Sleepy

Most RIDICULOUS belief I ever came across was this chap who used to work in our office.

He believed - and I guess we really shouldn't laugh - anyway, he was firmly convinced that - GET THIS....

... that Arsenal was actually a good side, worth watching.

The amount of time, energy and money this poor sap spent in his devotion was simply tragic.

Duncan.
head-shaking class

6

Benno!!! Massacre in aisle 14-H!

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

yesterday afternoon my wife persuaded me to take her shopping to ikea.

i had just enjoyed a very good lunch with some fellow apostates, so in a moment of expansive good-willed stupidity, i agreed.. i hate ikea.

i've had quite enough of cults in my life, thank you very much.

Duncan

Excellent comments brother Expat.

And don't they have wierd adverts, too?

Duncan

(Chucking out his chimps)

3

Reported in today's Sunday Times

by Duncan in

jw
friends

from this morning's sunday times'(london, uk) review section:.

"jane white, of peacehaven, east sussex, was so fed up with jehovahs witnesses knocking at her door that she decided to exact an ingenious revenge.

she found the nearest kingdom hall, where jehovahs witnesses worship, and waited until a service was in progress.

Duncan

From this morning's Sunday Times'(London, UK) Review Section:

"Jane White, of Peacehaven, East Sussex, was so fed up with Jehovah’s Witnesses knocking at her door that she decided to exact an ingenious revenge. She found the nearest Kingdom Hall, where Jehovah’s Witnesses worship, and waited until a service was in progress. Then she beat loudly on the door, waited for somebody to answer, and launched into a long lecture about Nirvana.

She kept up her talk for 20 minutes, immune to all appeals to go away. Eventually the congregation called the police. A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses told The Sun: “People only have to say they do not want us to call and we won’t return.”

The technique has wide applications. Why stop at the Jehovah’s Witnesses? Let’s find out when the managing directors of double-glazing companies are just about to sit down for dinner so we can phone them up and ask if they’re thinking of having new windows installed. Let’s phone BT executives at inconvenient moments..."

What a hoot... eh?

Duncan

18

Seven Years Yesterday, Buddy!

by COMF in

jw
friends

that was for cygnus, mostly.

and anybody else who knows the significance and history.

january 10th, 1995.. comf

Duncan

Congratulations COMF

As I always say:

"Ich iememnoff porthemest blesto u rabafilium. Feelia mortafren li coroborundo daspaciola ta methubla!"

I think you know what I mean.

Duncan.

7

The Paps and Weno Show

by Duncan in

jw
friends

dear all,.

to those who used to read h2o last year, and have seen this, apologies.

dear all.

Duncan

Hi E-man

I singled out Paps and Weno because of their endurance . Oh, sure –we had elders who had a brief flirtation – a crazy season – with one particular phrase or another….

I well remember when our then-PO went overboard on the phrase “…at the same time…” EVERY-bloody-THING seemingly was happening at the same time as everything else. “When we render sacred service to Jehovah then at the same time we prove Satan a liar” ... “ We, as true Christians study God’s Word the Bible and, at the same time, come to an accurate knowledge of the truth…”

We toyed with the idea of calling him “The Simultaneous Man” but it really wasn’t catchy enough , and besides, he lost interest after a few weeks. No endurance, you see.

Or another Elder, the Theocratic Ministry School Servant at the time, who had a brief, weeks-long infatuation with the construction “Why…how..”

“Why, how glad we can be that Jehovah’s Organisation….”

“Why, how marvellous to welcome so many to this weeks Public Talk!”

But Why-how just didn’t stand the test of time – no how.

But, Paps and Weno! They showed true Christian Perseverance! Yes, indeed, we know that – paps – they stayed faithful to their – paps – ridiculous verbal security blankets through years and years, with never a deviation. We know that this – paps – enduring steadfastness was - paps - the true mark of Watchtower-speak Greatness.

They’re probably still at it, even now. Way to go, (paps)

Duncan.

7

The Paps and Weno Show

by Duncan in

jw
friends

dear all,.

to those who used to read h2o last year, and have seen this, apologies.

dear all.

Duncan

Dear all,

To those who used to read H2O last year, and have seen this, apologies. It's another reheat.

*****************

Dear all

Whereas for a period of about twenty years, I really didn't give Jehovah's Witnesses much of a thought, now since finding this site - and reading the posts most days - I find myself casting my mind back more often to the time when I was "in" and stuff which happened then.

The other day I remembered all about Paps and Weno. And it made me smile all over again.

Paps and Weno were two Elders in our congregation. We had, I don't know, only about 6 or 7 Elders in total , so between them these two took up a fair amount of Platform time.

John C. was "Paps" and Les P was "Weno". Their nicknames - which as far as I'm aware they never knew about - arose from their respective speaking styles, and mannerisms.

Paps was actually saying "Perhaps" , but that's the way he said it, and he said it in virtually EVERY sentence:

"Brothers, I wonder if - paps - you'd turn with me to 2nd Corinthians,
Chapter 3, and - paps - reading from verse 5... Jehovah here is - paps - giving us counsel which - paps - we should apply to our selves..."

And so on and - paps - so on.

Weno - of course - said "We Know" - and said it practically all the time.

"Well, We know, of course that Jehovah is guiding us in this time of the end, and we know that he has given us instruction in his word the Bible. Brothers, we know that we must listen to this wise instruction, because we know the end is ..."

There were a group of us pioneers in the congregation at that time. I
joined the group in 1970, and left it in 1974, and while I was in it
numbered between 4 and 6 (the makeup of the group churned over the years).

One of the things I remember was coming into the group all wide-eyed and innocent, and quickly learning the cynical group culture. The one big thing you learned pretty much straight off was how to cheat your time, making a call on a not-at-home early in the morning, going off to a café for an hour or two then doing some magazine route calls, walking around the shops, more route calls and counting the whole day.

The other big thing was taking the piss out of the Elders. Any mannerism or defect or mockable thing was latched on to and used in ruthless ridicule. Jon, the oldest pioneer (it was all young, single brothers) was the ringleader but I must admit, I was pretty good at this.

Hence we had Paps and Weno.

I remember sitting in the Willow café, over several cups of coffee,
laughing about how "The Paps and Weno Show" had gone the previous night.

Jon sometimes would keep count. "Well Paps went nuts last night! 61 times in a twenty-minute Instruction Talk! Unbelievable!"

Weno, in particular had a very distinctive, easily mimicked voice. We would order up coffee as Weno:

"We know we would like 4 coffees please and, well, we know that 3 of these should have milk, but we know that only 1 has sugar..." You had to be there, I suppose because I'm laughing at this even as I type, and I guess it won't look funny at all onscreen.

Oh, we kept it hidden from the regular publishers, of course - didn't want to "stumble anyone" after all. But, in fact, the secret nature of the mockery just reinforced the group identity all the more and made us feel superior to the ordinary publishers.

Remembering this got me to wondering... were we alone in this? Did anyone else make fun of "Those Reaching Out and Taking the Lead" in such a thoroughly reprehensible manner?

Anyone else remember anything similar?

Duncan

24

SPEAKING IN TONGUES

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

i am a believer in christ have been df'd since 7/01, but left the jw's in my heart for some time before that.. i feel that the gifts of the spirit didn't end in the 1st and 2nd century but should continue until the church is no longer on earth.. i have been to serveral different christian groups and have heard many speak in tongues, but to be honest i'm not very impressed.. it seems to be, not supernatural,.. but more like the reaction you get when you jump in very cold water, and get a terrible chill that makes your jaw vibrate.. the women seems to be the most prominent ones in speaking in tongues, so i wonder if it is just an emotional response, more than any thing else?.

and if paul said to limit the speaking in tongues to just 2 and only if there is an interpeter, why does the speaking in tongues become so prominent at these meetings?

and how come i never hear a translator interpet what is said?.

Duncan

COMF said:

Ich iememnoff porthemest blesto u rabafilium. Feelia mortafren li coroborundo daspaciola ta methubla

I love the way you Texans talk!

Here in the UK we would have said:

“Ich ieMAMNORFF porthemest blestEW u rabafilium. FILUWER morTERfren li coroBAROUNDo daspaciola TEW methuBLUR” - except, I think, the Scots say it a bit differently again.

I just love the accents thing.

Duncan.

78

You Know a Spiritual Coward

by AlanF in

jw
friends

here is another unequivocal example of a claim of direct inspiration: in the olin moyle court case of 1943, fred franz said under oath that no man is the editor of the watchtower.

who, then, is the editor?

who became the editor?

Duncan

Alan

Excellent. Enjoyable read, too; well written.

Just don't go expecting any reasoned, point-by-point rebuttal by Unoh any time soon though, okay?

Regards

Duncan.

6

Feeling Sorry for the Current GB

by Duncan in

jw
friends

why, today, have i managed to make myself feel sorry for the current gb?.

ill explain.... in another current thread on jwd, wherein unoh has yet again valiantly marched out upon the plain to confront the armies of apostasia, alanf makes an interesting observation:.

jw leaders are the ones who exploit others...having become old and spiritually ossified, they cannot change.

Duncan

Why, today, have I managed to make myself feel sorry for the current GB?

I’ll explain…

In another current thread on JWD, wherein Unoh has yet again valiantly marched out upon the plain to confront the armies of Apostasia, AlanF makes an interesting observation:

“JW leaders are the ones who exploit others…Having become old and spiritually ossified, they cannot change. But change will come to the JW organization, and when it does, these old men will be seen for what they really are -- exploiters of the sheep.”

This really got me thinking.

“These old men will be seen for what they really are.” Seen as such by whom? The world? The Witness community itself?

Now, I know, it’s a somewhat idle pastime, speculating upon how the current, wholly unsatisfactory and inherently unstable situation regarding the immediate and mid-term future of the WTS might play out. But sometimes, you know I can’t help it.

I think it’s at least a fair bet that the pressures facing the movement, the obvious and pressing need for some enlightened, humanitarian change in doctrine and social policy, set against the current leadership’s stubborn refusal even to consider any such idea, might well lead eventually to a violent schism. One can easily imagine hard-line and moderate camps developing, mutually disfellowshipping each other, fighting over ownership of the assets and money, and of course tragically splitting families and friends along an iron curtain of sectarian division. All too common an experience among committed, religious people, but it would be a complete disaster for the movement.

But, just say, they manage to avoid that? What if enough internal political will and good sense could be found among the ranks to pilot the Organisation through? To prevent a disastrous schism, or a numbers meltdown or a legal catastrophe? What would the surviving Organisation (in ten years maybe) then look like and sound like?

And further than that (and this is the point of my post) what attitude would such a future Watchtower leadership display towards the present-day leadership?

I think this is an interesting area of speculation because, it seems to me, that such a future leadership, if it has managed to survive at all, will of necessity have a very different character to today’s leadership. They will have had to face up to the failed prophecies, taken responsibility for mistakes, apologised to people, cleared up the blood mess, jettisoned shunning and generally done away with the whole exclusivity mindset. I say “will have had to” because I think no stable future is available to them that is not, in essence, of a “mainstreaming” character.

So when they come to comment upon the Organisation in the late 20th Century, and write their histories of the movement – what will they say about Franz, Henschel, Jaracz and the rest?

In previous restospectives, such as when the Rutherford-era people wrote about Russell, and when the Knorr-era people wrote about Rutherford, the tone has always been completely respectful, even if tinged with a kind of amused condescension: “Well, the Brothers back then had some strange ideas, alright. But you can see they were sincere, and that Jehovah blessed them, even though their understanding of things at the time was so wayward and feeble. They couldn’t help it, they were doing the best they could with the “light” that was available” You must have heard sentiments along those lines before.

But will such an attitude be appropriate, or even realistically available to the-then Watchtower leaders? Me, I doubt it. The record of self-serving, cynical, prideful deceptiveness, the stubbornness, the lying, the cover-ups, the sheer idiocy and incompetence of the current lot will be simply too much to deny or gloss over. Damaging information having become so much more available and ubiquitous, they simply won’t have the option of airbrushing the current GB into a state of holiness.

What, then?

Well, it seems a fair guess to me that the future leadership, for pragmatic reasons as much as anything else, might simply take a diametrically opposite approach.

I think there’s every chance that a future Watchtower leadership might thoroughly denounce the current crowd as an aberration. An unchristian, uncaring totally apostate and wicked regime that was allowed – for whatever reason – to gain control of Jehovah’s organisation for a period of time. I’m sure there are no end of possible “scripture/prophecy fulfilment” scenarios that could be used in such a process.

I put this forward to you as a serious idea.

So, who’ d be a current GB member? The whole thing is falling apart around your ears, there seems no way out of the mess, and, worse than that, even after you’re dead, your name and reputation are going to be vilified, AMONG YOUR OWN COMMUNITY. Well, as I said, a good chance, I reckon.

So that’s why, today, I managed to feel sorry for the current GB, just for a while.

Duncan.