Posts by dungbeetle

8

Which is the most hate filled JW publication???

by TheApostleAK in

jw
friends

i vote the revelation - grand climax book.. i'm told that some of rutherfraud's stuff is pretty extreme (most kh's have destroyed his books).. from alan

dungbeetle

Since Amazing so nicely commented on the trial transcripts of Rutherflawed, and how desparate he and his cronies were not to go to jail, it is obvious THEY didn't belive they had the true religion.

Therefore they couldn't have believed the Catholics were a FALSE religion.

Therefore, what they DID believe in was that the Catholic Church was their greatest competitor for money and members. Thus the constant attacks against the church.

Only in the Watchtower do this religion call publicly, loudly, and endlessly for the death of children through refusal of medical treatment (and to a slightly lesser degree the Awake!); the expulsion/shunning of rape and molestation survivors; for individuals to not not not partake at memorial; to not even trust your own children/parents/marriage mate sayings; for the deaths rather than engage in alternative service or pay taxes (Germany, Malawi).

No definietly the Watchtower rag takes the cake as the greatest hate publication of all time.

But as for books, I agree with Farkel: Enemies.

Joseph Rutherford was one deranged dude. Even more so than Russell. So much so the both of them, that their wives could not stand to live with them anymore.

Gotta love that religious 'thang'.

10

Help Needed in Calgary re Blood Issue

by Defender in

jw
friends

just read this from another forum.

http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=yes&board=main&mode=current&message=1647

dungbeetle

I had a horrid time getting in and maybe Hawkaw can verify this:
(bold is mine)

Posted by GregStafford on Wed - Apr 10 - 00:11am:

Hello,
I see the comments below on the divine name, and I will be sure to give some responses in the coming days. However, since my online time is very limited these days, I have to take advantage of it for the most pressing of needs. I think this one should come first.

As many of you know, a brother in Calgary has been the object of significant legal and spiritual attacks by various persons in the Society. The problem, as I understand it, has to do with his daughter and the fact that he wants to make sure she gets medical treatment to keep her alive, even if that involves the use of blood or blood components forbidden by the Society.

As some of you know, or will soon know once you read my book, I think the Society's blood policy is without basis on a number of points, and should be abandoned in favor of allowing each person to make their own decision without any pressure to conform to a preferred view. Ironically, this was a position that the Society adopted until the early 60s.

In any event, the brother in question has provided me with the following information. I certainly stand in support of assisting this brother in whatever capacity possible. For some that may be a card, for others, financial assistance. Both are welcome as you can see:

BEGIN EMAIL
. . .The JW lawyers have had my lawyer in court almost every day and they know that I do not have the money to continue this fight. Two workmates set up a trust fund to help defray the cost of legal fees and any money left over would be given to the Childrens Hospital. Maggie Branton is one of those persons and she is a Notary. To verify this you can contact her at (403)262-5511.
I have no access to this fund. The papers are afraid to advertize it because they have been threatened to be sued by the JWO. Would you be able to help me tell about the fund? Also if anyone wants to mail me a card or letter.

Cheques can be made out to " SAVE MY DAUGHTER "

Mail can be made out to " SHUNNED FATHER "
P.O. Box 20161, Calgary Place R.P.O.,
Calgary Alberta T2P 4J2

Maybe you could forward this email to others. Thanks again.
END EMAIL

Greg Stafford
___________________________________________________________________

I like Greg's comment about the Society's blood position in the 1960's. The same is true of shunning, rape resistance, and a host of other inter-society procedures. It's like some kind of huge demon took over the Watchtower starting in 1961-1964.

___________________________________________________________________

And also, has there been any word of the possibility of the family coming to Los Angeles for treatment?

24

Can U Answer a Really Hard ? from any JW?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

i was thinking today that many of us ex-dubs are fairly capable of holding our own when conversing with an active witness about anything jw related.

if we dont have an immediate answer, it isnt difficult to find a ex-jw website that has a lot of good information we could use for finding an answer fairly quickly.

having said this though, i think there are some questions that a jw could ask you that might be a lot tougher to answer, websites or not.

dungbeetle

Simply put, the good old days were not the good old days. The only places in the world where there is a poor quality of life is where there is war. But that used to be the case here in the US(revolutionary and civil war); and in more recently in Europe. The sad fact is (to the JW) we haven't had a world war in over 60 years. Dang those pesky worldly humans---

Once upon a time the human race was young, younger than the animals and even friggin' fish and trees. But we ARE growing up. The world IS becoming a better place.

My best example is the World Trade Center disaster. Just a few maniacs wreaked a lot of havoc, and quite a few people died: but look at the fallout. So many volunteers (not JW)they had to be turned away. So many trying to donate blood (not JW)they had to be turned away. So much equipment donated (not JW)some had to be turned away. So much money donated (not JW)it will be hard to spend it all. So much love (not JW) it will never be forgotten.

And in general, never have so many volunteered their efforts all over the world to save animals, plants, people, places, and cultures. 6 million JW's are a teeny tiny grain of sand in this volunteer world.

It takes a true-blue cult member to turn a blind eye toward all the good in the world. Yes, lots of people are still suffering--in those few places where there is still religious intolerance just like what they JW's practice.

HMMMMM....

Oh, to respond to the thoughts:

There is evil because the human race was once younger than it is today. We are doing just fine thank you--slowly but surely.

WE--and the children--are going to prevent self destruction. And I believe that when humans finally decide to get together; then-and only then-will we have God's Kingdom. That will BE God's Kingdom.

UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)

116

WHAT ABOUT THE STUMBLING BLOCKS?

by You Know in

the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.

thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.

unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.

dungbeetle

Oh, he's thought of it. But what other religion lets him "count time"?

116

WHAT ABOUT THE STUMBLING BLOCKS?

by You Know in

the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.

thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.

unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.

dungbeetle

>Let me see if I got this straight. The fact that the Watchtower doesn't always teach the truth is proof that it teaches the truth.<

Yep---YOU got it!!!!!

116

WHAT ABOUT THE STUMBLING BLOCKS?

by You Know in

the underlying assumption of the apostasy is that if the watchtower falls short to a significant degree then it cannot be jehovahs organization.

thats why apostates are hopeful that if enough fault can be found with the organization and brought to the attention of the faithful, then they too will accept the conclusion that jehovahs witnesses are not who we say we are.

unquestionably, many have been stumbled over a multitude of stumbling blocks.

dungbeetle

All I know is, Jesus AND his apostles said they would rather face execution than stop speaking about the things 'they have seen and heard'.

Watchtower says that 'no one had the right to silence them'.

Now the Watchtower and its proponents wish to silence those 'speaking about the things they have seen and heard.'

It, in turn, will pay the price for its own APOSTASY.

10

Has anyone read "30 Years a WT Slave"?

by stocwach in

jw
friends

it was written in 1971 by william j. schnell, born in 1905 and was a dub from 1924-1954, holding many high positions within the org.

from bethel to direct one on one meetings with rutherford.. interesting slant that i never really considered as a plausible possibility, but now it has me wondering:.

the main theme of his book is that the society's main ulterior motive was to basically become a financial empire by selling books and publications.

dungbeetle

It was the first 'apostate' book I ever read, and it is still my favorite. I put up a review here, too, but can't find it right now.

I hate to say this, but even Ray Franz's books are 'dated' now. Ray Franz's governing body is not the same as William Schnell's governing body, and Ray Franz's Governing Body is not today's governing body. The most fabulous thing is, when comparing all these books writtne through the years, is to observe the increasing toxicity of the Watchtower organization.

No one book can tell you the story. It is reading them, one after the other, that the true PATTERN can be seen.

William Schnell predeicted one thing that has proven to be true, and that inspires me from time to time. IF the Watchtower is going to come down, it will be from their OWN PUBLICATIONS. This was in 1957 that he said that.

I don't know about only fifty percent being true---I couldn't find a way to discount ANYTHING he said. Much of the book quotes the literature. For years some of what he said had to be taken at face value---untill now. Thanks to the hard work of many people ---and EBAY---the public now has access to the Watchtower publications to check his assertions.

Someone on this board has a copy in German...that's how much coverage his book had. Very amazing history.

When William Schnell exited the Watchtower, he didn't receive a big chunk of cash, there was no ex-jw community or even cult-exiting as we know it today; and I believe he published the book originally with his own money.

To repeat for emphasis, his book isn't 'better' or 'worse'; it is part of that 'human watchtower experience' over time and I find it helpful to show Witnesses how LONG this has been going on. At no time has the Watchtower been able to refute any of William Schnell's assertions.

WATCHTOWER, YOUR TIME IS COMING...

22

thoughts about miscarriage

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i remember the date, may 15, 1991, it was the date my wife miscarried and a young life was lost.

there was no funeral, few remarks of support.

i will never forget the remark of my mother, well it never was really a baby after all.

dungbeetle

I, too have lost two children in miscarriage. The first was in the summer of 1978. I was carrying twins, and I lost one; miraculously the other survived and went on to be a happy little girl. The name we gave our surviving child means 'honeybee', as bees live together and she started out her life with 'another' one.

About ten years later, I had another miscarriage. I was going through some horrid JW-related stress then and I have always wondered if that contributed to my loss, tho I did not really confront or give expression to these feelings untill recently. This lost child was my last pregnancy; I wish my reproductive life could have ended on a better note.

But I have my beautiful little 'honeybee' to remind me of how wonderful life CAN be. May everyone who has lost a child have a 'honeybee'!!!

UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)

50

Greg Stafford's New Book Has Shipped

by AlanF in

jw
friends

today i received greg stafford's new book three dissertations on the teachings of jehovah's witnesses.

for those who don't know, stafford has been a staunch defender of the watchtower society's teachings for at least six years, on the net and in print.

his previous book, jehovah's witnesses defended (1998, 2000), is a milestone in pro-jw literature.. the new book is a radical departure from stafford's previous book in that he strongly questions the society's doctrines about blood transfusions, the basis for the claim of spiritual authority by jw leaders, the necessity for christians to believe the society's 1914 doctrine, and issues of "legalism" including the propriety of requiring "time" in the field ministry to be reported, and even the supposed scriptural basis for the society's ban on celebrating birthdays and christmas.

dungbeetle

concerned mamma:

That is true in my library as well. The ex-jw books keep disappearing...including James Penton's books!!! Here's another funny--even Firpo Carr's books are stolen!!! All the remaining Timothy White, David Reed, Edmund Gruss books are all reference only, thank goodness.

I have bought and donated books on the CONDITON that they be kept as reference only. I have donated books like 'Wolves Among Sheep' and someone (not me) has donated 'Awakening of a Jehovah's Witness' but it is available for take-out. We'll see how long THAT lasts...

20

How to get someone out?

by Hyghlandyr in

jw
friends

i am seeking information on stories of those who have assisted relatives or friends out of the organization.

particularly i would like books, or websites, or personal experiences, suggestions on step by step methods, to carefully present ideas to those who are staunchly pro jw, without alienating them further.

i am especially interested in situations in which a df person was able to finally break down the barriers.

dungbeetle

http://www.watchtowernews.org/howto/index.htm

HOW TO WITNESS TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (SLIDE SLOW PRESENTATION)

______________________________________________________________________

http://www.watchman.org/jwtools.htm?source=Overture

TOOLS FOR WITNESSING TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

Witnessing to friends and family members who are Jehovah's Witnesses is a difficult task. The Witnesses are trained to both overcome arguments disproving their faith, as well as to ignore any doctrinal difficulties with which they may be confronted. Our resources will help you in your evangelistic encounters.

__________________________________________________________________
http://www.jesus-witnesses.com/getting_help.htm

Educate Yourself on the Watchtower Society
This page contains links to web sites and pages having to do with Jehovah's Witnesses and recovery from the Watchtower. Devoted to providing resources to those investigating the JWs as a possible way of life or those who have loved ones trapped inside the Watchtower and desperate to get them out.

____________________________________________________________________

Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan

In this eye-opening account, Steven Hassan, a former cult member and leading expert on destructive cults, shows how unsuspecting individuals are targeted for recruitment, isolated from family and friends, and psychologically manipulated. He identifies those groups which use behavior modification techniques to gain money, influence, and power, and shows how you can protect yourself and your family from their insidious influence.

"Beyond its value as an illuminating personal account, this book is an informative and practical guide to cult-related issues...recommended to lay persons who wish to become better informed on this topic and to professionals whose responsibilities bring them into contact with cults, their members, and families whose lives are affected."

Cults in Our Midst by Margaret Thaler Singer
If you want a comprehensive education in how cults operate and the tactics they use then you must obtain this entertaining and most informative and important work by an eminent psychologist who has worked first hand with those involved in cults of all persuasions! As one reader commenting on Amazon.com stated, "Learn the difference between a convincing argrument and being brainwashed. The mind you save may be your own. This should be required reading in every school and in every parent's group in the country." NOTE: This book does not mention Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower Society at all. However, any JW or ex-JW reading it will be convinced that this book was written with JWs in mind. Although it wasn't, this uneasy feeling proves how The Watchtower Society is no different than any other mind-control cult. They all come from the same cookie-cutter.