Earnest

Joined

• started 51 topics
• posted 2,313 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Earnest

• 
  16

  New World Translation - Variants

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  new world translation - variantstentative translations below.

  you native language experts can probably do better than me.

  if so, help yourself.. matthew 24.3, english edition: “what will be the sign of... the conclusion of the system of things?”french, 1987: “quel sera le signe de… la conclusion du système de choses” (...the system of things)french revised: “quel sera le signe de… la période finale du monde?” (…the final period of the world)german revised: “und den abschluss des weltsystems erkennen?” (the conclusion of the world system)spanish revised: “qué señal habrá... de la conclusión del sistema?” (…conclusion of the system)matthew 24.45, "the faithful and discreet slave":italian revised: “lo schiavo fedele e saggio” = “the faithful and wise slave”portuguese revised: “o escravo fiel e prudente” = “the faithful and prudent slave”spanish revised, “el esclavo fiel y prudente” = “the faithful and prudent slave”matthew 25.46,(english edition), “cutting-off” contrasted with “everlasting life” in the same verse.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Doug Mason : I do not know which source was used for the NWT OT.

  In Appendix A3 of the Study Edition of the New World Translation it identifies the sources used for the NWT OT:

  Hebrew Text: The New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (1953-1960) was based on Biblia Hebraica, by Rudolf Kittel. Since that time, updated editions of the Hebrew text, namely, Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia and Biblia Hebraica Quinta, have included recent research based on the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient manuscripts. These scholarly works reproduce the Leningrad Codex in the main text along with footnotes that contain comparative wording from other sources, including the Samaritan Pentateuch, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Greek Septuagint, the Aramaic Targums, the Latin Vulgate, and the Syriac Peshitta. Both Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia and Biblia Hebraica Quinta were consulted when preparing the present revision of the New World Translation.

  Doug Mason: ...note that "The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures" states that its Greek text comes from Westcott and Hort.

  In the Foreword of The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, pp.8,9 it says :

  The Greek text that we have used as the basis of our New World Translation is the widely accepted Westcott and Hort text (1881), by reason of its admitted excellence.* But we have also taken into consideration other texts, including that prepared by D. Eberhard Nestle,** the Spanish Jesuit scholar Jose Maria Bover,*** and another Jesuit scholar, A. Merk.**** The UBS text of 1975 and the Nestle-Aland text of 1979 were consulted to update the critical apparatus of this edition.

  Footnote *: Besides using the 1948 Macmillan Company edition of this text, we have availed ourselves of the two exhaustive volumes on Matthew and Mark, prepared under the supervision of S. C. E. Legg, A.M., and published by the Oxford Clarendon Press, Novum Testamentum Graece Secundum Textum Westcotto-Hortianum - Evangelium Secundum Matthaeum (1940) and Evangelium Secundum Marcum (1935).

  Footnote **: The 18th edition of Novum Testamentum Graece by D. Eberhard Nestle, elaborated by D. Erwin Nestle, published in 1948 by the Wurttemberg Bible Socicty, Stuttgart, Germany.

  Footnote ***: Novi Testamenti Biblia Graeca et Latina by Joseph M. Bover, SJ, dated 1943 and published at Barcelona, Spain.

  Footnote ****: The 1948 printing of the sixth edition of Novum Testamentum Graece et Latine by Augustinus Merk, S.J., and printed at Rome, Italy.

  Doug Mason: They might have come from the original languages ...but...the veracity of those sources, requires the expertise of scholars in Lower (Textual) Criticism, such as Emanuel Tov.

  Westcott, Hort and Lightfoot were the leading textual critics of their day. Before criticising them have a read through Hort's Introduction and Appendix to get a flavour of their expertise.

  Their work was of such a high standard that 100 years later Bruce Metzger was reported in Bible Interpreters of the 20th Century, as saying (p.264):

  “The international committee that produced the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament, not only adopted the Westcott and Hort edition as its basic text, but followed their methodology in giving attention to both external and internal consideration”
• 
  50

  Did Jesus die on a stake or pole?

  by sweetyj in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we already know how jws will respond ( on a pole).

  but i found an article that talks about jws views on how jesus died.

  i didn't know that there was a time when jws accepted the cross unlike now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Acluetofindtheuser : Peter was going to stretch out his arms on a cross beam and be crucified per the scripture above.

  You are reading into the scripture what is not there. The scripture (John 21:18) says:

  When you were younger, you used to dress yourself, and walk about where you wanted. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and another will dress you and carry you where you do not wish.

  So, instead of dressing himself as he did when he was younger, Peter would stretch out his hands and be dressed by another. That is the context of the verse.
  
• 
  50

  Did Jesus die on a stake or pole?

  by sweetyj in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we already know how jws will respond ( on a pole).

  but i found an article that talks about jws views on how jesus died.

  i didn't know that there was a time when jws accepted the cross unlike now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Finkelstein : Archeological findings have confirmed the Romans crucified their worst criminals on a cross of two opposing pieces of wood..

  Can you please cite the archaeological findings you have in mind which would indicate this to be true of pre-Constantine Romans. The Ancient Near East Today, published this month, claims that not to be so.
  
• 
  22

  Interested in a refresher about the anointed

  by frozen2018 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've had very little to do with jw's since the early 1990's.

  however, i do try to stay a little informed on what they are up to as i have several close relatives who are devout.

  i rely on this site to keep me updated.. over the weekend i learned that a couple of my relatives, a father and son, have decided that they are anointed and had some bread and wine at the last memorial.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  The May 1, 2007 issue of The Watchtower addressed the question When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?

  It explained why it was thought that the call ended in 1931 and why that was a misunderstanding of a parable. It concludes:

  Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.
• 
  50

  Did Jesus die on a stake or pole?

  by sweetyj in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we already know how jws will respond ( on a pole).

  but i found an article that talks about jws views on how jesus died.

  i didn't know that there was a time when jws accepted the cross unlike now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Doug Mason : At the time, my understanding was that the WTS said the merits of Jesus' death were applied solely to the 144,000. They appeared to confirm this wit their practice at their annual "Memorial". Is this still the case?

  Hi Doug, while this is slightly off-topic I should clarify that the WTS never taught that the merits of Jesus' death applied solely to the 144,000. They taught that the covenant for a kingdom only applied to the 144,000 but the merits of his death are available to all.
  
• 
  50

  Did Jesus die on a stake or pole?

  by sweetyj in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we already know how jws will respond ( on a pole).

  but i found an article that talks about jws views on how jesus died.

  i didn't know that there was a time when jws accepted the cross unlike now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Crosses and Crucifixions, Misunderstood and Misinterpreted as reported in the August 2019 issue of The Ancient Near East Today, points out that the only direct evidence of crucifixion in the ancient world is, in fact, a fragmentary and heavily restored calcaneum, or heel..

  As the book, Crucifixion in Antiquity, by Gunnar Samuelsson shows, the word used which is translated as "cross" or "torture stake" does not specify the physical form of the execution apparatus (other than a wooden object standing upright), but refers to a particular kind of execution involving suspension on a wooden apparatus.
  

  Hence, the translation of the word as "cross" is rather misleading as it suggests we do know the shape of the execution apparatus. The Latin crux refers to various shapes including an upright pole (crux simplex).
  
• 
  62

  Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

  this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

  it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  cofty, I have to say I found SBF's posts to be interesting and, in a discussion on evolution, quite relevant if consciousness distinguishes man from his predecessors.
  
  What is of further interest is that Neanderthals also show evidence of consciousness (painting, jewellery, control of fire). What to make of that is anybody's guess.
  
• 
  4

  New Jerusalem finds are evidence of Babylonian siege, archaeologists say

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-jerusalem-finds-are-evidence-of-babylonian-siege-archaeologists-say/ .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  There is a more complete report here. UNC Charlotte professor of history Shimon Gibson explains the basis for identifying it with the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem.
  

  "For archaeologists, an ashen layer can mean a number of different things," Gibson said. "It could be ashy deposits removed from ovens; or it could be localized burning of garbage. However, in this case, the combination of an ashy layer full of artifacts, mixed with arrowheads, and a very special ornament indicates some kind of devastation and destruction. Nobody abandons golden jewelry and nobody has arrowheads in their domestic refuse."

  "The arrowheads are known as 'Scythian arrowheads' and have been found at other archaeological conflict sites from the 7th and 6th centuries BCE. They are known at sites outside of Israel as well. They were fairly commonplace in this period and are known to be used by the Babylonian warriors. Together, this evidence points to the historical conquest of the city by Babylon because the only major destruction we have in Jerusalem for this period is the conquest of 587/586 BCE," he said.

  The clay artifacts also help date the discovery. The lamps, Gibson notes, are the typical high-based pinched lamps of the period.

  There is no suggestion in the account that this excavation confirmed the year of the conquest to be 587/586 BCE, but it did establish the general period.
  
• 
  3

  Who can help me download the Korea 2019 regional convention video?

  by leeeunseo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  deer brothers .

  who can help me download the korea 2019 regional convention video?.

  i really need it.. please help me.. thanks.. i’m chinese .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  The Seoul International Assembly (in Mandarin) will be held from Sept. 13 - Sept. 15 at the Gyeonggi Goyang-si Ilsan Seo-gu KINTEX Exhibition Centre.

  You can download the convention video here in Mandarin or Cantonese.
  

  
  
• 
  3

  Sons of God vs Sons of Israel

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  a brief overview of how the term "angels of god" mentioned at deuteronomy 32:8 was replaced by "sons of israel.

  " textual evidence is explored in the targum and the septuagint versions of the bible.

  who were the masoretes and what was their agenda?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  This seems to be an argument that the translators of the NWT cannot be trusted because they translated Deuteronomy 32:8 from the Hebrew text rather than from the Greek LXX.

  The Hebrew text reads "sons of Israel" whereas the Greek LXX text reads "angels of God".

  This seems to me a strange criticism as Deuteronomy is, after all, a part of the Hebrew scriptures. The argument seems to be that the LXX translates a more accurate, or correct, copy of the Hebrew. However, that was not the view of Jews in the second century CE.

  In Origen's Hexapla, which was an edition of the Hebrew Bible written in the third century with the LXX and three other Greek translations (Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion) in parallel columns, all three Greek translations reflected the Masoretic Text ("sons of Israel") In Deuteronomy 32:8.

  In fact, the Jews at that time rejected the LXX because they believed it had been tampered with by the Christians and so these three translations were preferred.