TD : it's really tough to find a decent discussion on the merits of the NWT.
I found Truth in Translation by Jason Beduhn to be a decent discussion on the merits of the NWT. He also discusses a number of other translations.
I agree with you on the horrible rendering of John 17:3 but would add that some JWs have long accepted that "taking in knowledge" was not the intent of Christ's words.
i think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
Were there not also a great crowd of witnesses in Hebrews 11 who exercised faith in Jehovah ? Abel, Enoch, Noah etc.
there is a pdf document online, an awake magazin (if you want to call it so) which describes that in the german "the golden age" version: (das goldene zeitalter, 15. mai 1927 page 160).
there is written:.
„das reichspostministerium beabsichtigt eine portoerhöhung von 10 auf 15 pf[enni]g.“.
The item to which you refer does appear among a number of other items under the heading Sign of the Time of the End. It reads (when translated) :
The postage is increased! The Reichspostministerium (Reich Ministry of Posts) intends a postage increase of 10 to 15 pfg. for the domestic letter and a corresponding increase of all other postage.
However, this section is more like Watching the World which was in the Awake! magazines with bits and pieces of news possibly related to the time of the end. Nothing more.
i think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
LV101, there are four texts I could identify referring to witnesses of Jesus. They are :
Acts 1:8 He [Jesus] said to them ...But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.
Acts 13:30,31 But God raised him up from the dead, and for many days he became visible to those who had gone with him from Galʹi·lee up to Jerusalem. These are now his witnesses to the people.
Acts 22:14,15 He [Ananias] said [to Saul]: ‘The God of our forefathers has chosen you to come to know his will and to see the righteous one and to hear the voice of his mouth, because you are to be a witness for him to all men of the things you have seen and heard.
Acts 22:19,20 And I [Paul] said: ‘Lord, they themselves well know that I used to imprison and flog in one synagogue after another those believing in you; and when the blood of Stephen your witness was being spilled, I was standing by and approving and guarding the outer garments of those doing away with him.’
There is no confusion who these scriptures are referring to, and none of them are quoting from the OT. So there is no doubt they were not edited from the Hebrew tetragrammaton.
Confusion lies in texts which now read 'Lord' but originally read YHWH such as Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42, and Acts 2:34 which all quote from Psalm 110:1 ('YHWH declared to my Lord...') but now read "The Lord said to my Lord...".
i think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
Vanderhoven7 : Here is an interesting article that sheds light on the question: Was the name Jehovah removed from the New Testament and does it matter?
The article to which you refer goes on to refer to a further eight articles. One of these addresses the argument that first century LXX papyri contain the tetragrammaton. The footnotes indicate the article is primarily based on a book written by Larry Hurtado in 2006 on 'The Earliest Christian Artefacts'. It would seem to be unaware that Professor Hurtado wrote on the subject five months ago. He said :
First, it is worth noting that, to judge from ancient manuscripts of the early Roman period, the treatment of the name of God, the “tetragrammaton” (YHWH), in the Greek translation of the OT was typically to write it in Hebrew characters, not to write a translation or substitute for the name. However, when reading the Greek OT it appears that the dominant practice was to substitute the Greek term kyrios for YHWH. Our manuscripts of the Septuagint (LXX) routinely have kyrios where the Hebrew has YHWH, but that is a scribal practice that seems to have developed sometime in the second century or so.
If you can produce any evidence of first century Greek manuscripts that replace the tetragrammaton with kurios ('Lord') now is the time to do it.
i think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
smiddy3 : I have never doubted the existence of the Tetragrammaton in relation to the O.T. scriptures my point being it was never used in the New testament.
The significance of the tetragrammaton in Greek LXX copies of the OT in the first century CE is two-fold.
Firstly, these are the scriptures that the writers of the New Testament used and quoted from. None of them (in the first century) replace the tetragrammaton with kurios ('Lord'), so why think that the Jewish writers of the NT would change that when quoting from them.
Secondly, and perhaps of greater significance, is that after the second century CE all extant copies of the LXX have replaced God's name with kurios ('Lord'). Some have questioned whether it would have been possible to remove all traces of the teragrammaton from copies of the NT if it had been there. The history of the LXX shows that is exactly what happened. There are various ideas why it happened but there is no doubt at all that it did happen. Why be surprised at the suggestion the same change occurred to copies of NT texts.
i think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
smiddy3 : The early LXX used the divine name...Can you show it to me ?
There are a number of examples.
The earliest extant copy of the Greek LXX Psalms is P.Oxy 77.5101 which was probably written between 50 and 150 C.E. It contains the tetragrammaton in palaeo-Hebrew script as here in Psalm 64:2 (LXX)
Another papyrus which contains parts of the Greek LXX book of Job is P.Oxy. 50.3522. This is dated to the first century CE and also contains the tetragrammaton in palaeo-Hebrew. Here the tetragrammaton can be seen in Job 42:12 :
Then there is the well-known papyrus, P.Fouad 266b, which is dated to the middle of the first century BCE and contains parts of the Greek LXX of Deuteronomy including the tetragrammaton:
There is also a Greek rendition of the divine name in 4Q120, which contains parts of Leviticus and probably dates from the first century BCE. In Leviticus 4:27 it translates the tetragrammaton as IAW (or Jao) :
The earliest evidence for the use of kurios ("Lord") replacing the tetragrammaton is P.Oxy. 4.656 of the early 3rd century CE.
i think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
i think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
Island Man : Add to this the fact that the typical Greek Septuagint did not translate YHWH into any Greek equivalent name, but instead used the Greek for "Lord" (kurious).
Every Greek Septuagint text that has been found prior to the second century CE translated YHWH with the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek equivalent of the divine name. It is only from the second century onwards that we find the divine name is replaced with the Greek for "Lord". There is no reason to believe this replacement of the divine name did not occur in the NT texts as well.
i am neither recommending nor rejecting the following book.
i am simply saying that i stumbled across it.
i have neither read it nor studied it.. search with: the name of god y.eh.ow.ah which is pronounced as it is written i eh ou ah its story gérard gertoux .
peacefulpete : I can't find any evidence they (or their roots) definitely pronounced the DN at any point prior to the Medieval establishment as a separate group. If not they would not have any special insights regarding the pronunciation being hundrds of years after the prohibition.
In Jacob Qirqisani's account of the Jewish sects ("The Book of Lights and Watch-Towers") he writes:
Some of the Karaites of Khorasan do not recognise the Ketib and the Qeri and read [the Torah] just as it is written; some of these Karaites do so even with the [Holy] name which is written yod-he [YH = tetragrammaton]; they assert that whoever reads it as [if it were written] alef-daleth [AD = adonai (lord)] is a heretic.
Jacob Qirqisani was a Karaite scholar from Syria who lived in the first half of the tenth century. Quite clearly in his time there were Jews reading the Torah and using God's name rather than substituting adonai (Lord). If they were doing so, and asserting it was heretical not to do so, it is obvious they were able to pronounce it.
