Earnest

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Posts by Earnest

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  23

  What has changed since January 2009?

  by KerryKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

  i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

  doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

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  Earnest

  Prior to the Annual Meeting in October 2012, the faithful and discreet slave was believed to consist of all those anointed on earth, collectively known as the remnant. However, at that meeting Stephen Lett discussed Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave. In the report on that meeting it said :

  From 1919 on, there has always been a small group of anointed Christians at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They have supervised our worldwide preaching work and have been directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. In recent years, that group has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  The evidence points to the following conclusion: “The faithful and discreet slave” was appointed over Jesus’ domestics in 1919. That slave is the small, composite group of anointed brothers serving at world headquarters during Christ’s presence who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. When this group work together as the Governing Body, they act as “the faithful and discreet slave.”

  See also the video at @ 06:35.
  

  The Watchtower of July 15, 2013 pp.20-25 provided the same information in an article on "Who Really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave". Paragraph 10 reads :

  Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? In keeping with Jesus’ pattern of feeding many through the hands of a few, that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ’s presence. Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Note, however, that the word “slave” in Jesus’ illustration is singular, indicating that this is a composite slave. The decisions of the Governing Body are thus made collectively.
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  15

  1970's Russell Pyramid Photo!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1970's photo of the russell pyramid.

  the picture was sent to us by a former bethelite who was also the person who took the picture.

  of course, the pyramid is not there anymore.. .

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  Earnest

  slimboyfat : Or am overlooking something?

  I agree with you that JWs would be unlikely to feel strongly about pyramidology. However, there still exist a number of groups that split after Russell died who still follow his writings (and still print them). It could be that someone involved with them (an ex or an opposer) took out their anger on the pyramid.
  
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  9

  Question on an article back in the late 90s

  by greenhornet in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  a "sister" that was in "truth" was a discussion one sunday at the meeting .she was in an iron lung ,anyone here might give a link.

  i dont want a j dum dot com link.

  just curious.. thank you .

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  Earnest

  Vidiot : And undoubtedly horseshit, based on anecdotal evidence.

  Her name, place and year of birth is provided in the article. The name of the Witness who called on her is there. The year of her dedication. The name of the person who wrote the article, who had been an attendant to her as a student nurse is provided. Her death was recorded in the Los Angeles Times. Other details of her life are confirmed on Wikitree. What more do you need to believe an account?
  
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  9

  Question on an article back in the late 90s

  by greenhornet in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  a "sister" that was in "truth" was a discussion one sunday at the meeting .she was in an iron lung ,anyone here might give a link.

  i dont want a j dum dot com link.

  just curious.. thank you .

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  Earnest

  Not Even an Iron Lung Could Stop Her Preaching
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  76

  Rekindled Light — The Narrative Structure of the Hexaemeron (Genesis 1:1–31)

  by Mebaqqer2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i used to comment here many years ago when i had an interest in biblical research in relation to jehovah’s witnesses.

  these days my biblical research is little concerned with jehovah’s witnesses.

  i feel my time is better spent researching the diachronistic development of the biblical text and ascertaining what the biblical writers and editors intended in the times in which they lived.. i have recently placed a summary diagram for a paper that i have written with original research entitled the narrative structure of the hexaemeron on academia.edu.

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  Earnest

  Welcome back, Mebaqqer2. I remember you as a pretty good researcher.
  
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  144

  Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

  there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

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  Earnest

  slimboyfat : I take it that’s what Russell also taught [about the Sheep and the Goats]

  No, not quite. In Pastor Russell's Sermons on The Judgment Day Pictured by Jesus (p.224) he applies the parable of the Sheep and Goats to those resurrected in the Millenial Reign :

  Our text [Matthew 25:40] refers, not to Christians, but to Gentiles—the world in general. Before Messiahʹs Throne shall be gathered all people, all nations…The whole picture refers to the thousand years of the Messianic Reign, the worldʹs judgment, the worldʹs trial.

  At the beginning of the article on The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats in the October 15, 1923 Watchtower, Rutherford discusses what was previously understood :

  Heretofore we have applied the parable to the Millennial reign of Christ, and the final judgment of the parable to the end of that reign. Such interpretation has been difficult to harmonize. If we find objections to its application during the Millennial age, and if we find the physical facts now known to us to fit the word picture, we would be justified in concluding that we might not have heretofore had the proper interpretation.

  With no disposition to criticize what has heretofore been written, we believe it profitable to consider whether or not our former application has been the right one. There seems to be a number of legitimate reasons why the parable will not be applicable at the final judgment of the Millennial reign of Christ.

  So there were two changes in the understanding of the Sheep and the Goats. One in 1923 with the Millions Now Living Will Never Die teaching, and the other in the in the 1930s when the new teaching of the “great crowd” was developed.
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  144

  Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

  there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

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  Earnest

  slimboyfat : The “millions” who were expected to survive Armageddon were currently unbelievers who would accept the truth in the new world in large numbers and never die.

  Yes, slim, you've got that right. In the convention at Los Angeles in August 1923 Rutherford gave a talk on the parable of the Sheep and the Goats. This was reported on in the October 15, 1923 Watchtower (pp.307-314), the sheep were identified as those in Christendom who were sympathetic towards the Bible Students and their message. It says, on p.313 :

  There is a large number of people in the denominational churches and outside of them who do not claim consecration, but who now see enough of the truth to convince them that the kingdom is at hand and who rejoice in the fact that the King is here. It is not at all unreasonable to conclude that there are millions now hearing about God’s plan of salvation who will pass through the time of trouble and never die, being amongst the first that will have opportunity for a trial for life everlasting.

  An additional thought has occurred to me of the importance that it is no longer necessary for unconverted relatives and friends to die before the Great Tribulation in order to live in paradise. There have been a number of cases where a JW has murdered close relatives. There seems little doubt that the perpetrator was mentally unstable, but even so the thought that he was saving them from eternal destruction (as they would get a resurrection) apparently played a part in some such cases.
  
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  40

  Dates and times

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night at my bible study group we looked at 1thessalonians ch 5 .

  we have been working through the whole letter.

  verses 1-11 start with .

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  Earnest

  jhine : You must know that faithful JWs sold houses and cars to donate the money to preaching work . Then when it didn't happen none of the money was paid back .

  It's true that some JWs sold their houses prior to 1975. But the purpose was to finance themselves to be able to preach full-time in the remaining months, not to donate the money for others to do the work. If I spend my money on myself, why should I be paid back?
  
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  35

  Visited the Russell gravesite yesterday

  by dropoffyourkeylee in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  wife and i visited the russell gravesite in allegheny (pittsburgh) pennsylvania yesterday.

  i’ll post photos if i can get them to upload on the hotel wifi..

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  Earnest

  Diogenesister : Is Lorena Russell Charlie Russell's wife? Or sister??

  Apparently she is unrelated. See the link provided by "vienne".
  
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  39

  Faithful Slave Appointment: What are the assumptions of Watchtower Matthew 24:45-47 Eschatology?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  text: matthew 24:45-47.

  45 “who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?

  46 it will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

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  Earnest

  At the time of the appointment of the faithful slave in 1919 it was understood to include all anointed Christians, and at that time all Christians were anointed. So it's a bit of nonsense to say that the faithful slave was appointed at Watchtower Headquarters. Or to say it included Watchtower directors as it included everyone. Or to speak of the appointment being passed on to subsequent Watchtower directors.

  It was only in 2012 that there was a change in understanding that the faithful slave only referred to the Governing Body collectively (not individually).