Posts by Earnest

127

What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon in

on a trip to rome a few years ago i asked my friend (who is roman and jw) what the catholic faith thinks of jw.

he simply stated that jw is tolerated by the church but that really not much thought is given to them.

is there an official stance on jw by the catholics?

Earnest

slimboyfat : On a tangent, I’m interested in the claims floating around that pope Benedict’s resignation in 2013 was invalid because of the wording he used and therefore Francis was an anti-pope.

That is interesting, slim, but I think it is just a fringe movement in conservative Catholicism and without widespread support. I am by no means an authority on this, but I understand there are a number of conservative Catholics who don't accept the Second Vatican Council and believe that all subsequent popes, including Pope John XXIII, are heretical. If I am to draw an analogy with JWs, I would say this is akin to not accepting that the GB is in itself the "faithful and discreet slave", rather than the entire remnant as was understood prior to 2012.

2

The Watchtower's Distortion of Proverbs 11:9: Replacing 'Godless' with 'Apostate'

by raymond frantz in

from this week's life & ministry:.

in proverbs 11:9, the new world translation reads:.

"by his mouth the apostate brings his neighbor to ruin, but by knowledge the righteous are rescued.".

Earnest

raymond frantz : The Watchtower, however, chooses to substitute "apostate," a word that does not appear in the original Hebrew, inserting it into the Old Testament text where it simply does not belong.

Strong's Lexicon says :

The Hebrew verb "chaneph" primarily conveys the idea of moral and spiritual corruption or pollution. It is used to describe actions or attitudes that deviate from the holiness and righteousness expected by God. The term often implies a turning away from the covenantal relationship with God, leading to a state of defilement or apostasy.

72

Did the Fred Franz style of writing cease after he died?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

i was completely out by 1991 and 1989 would have been the last time i had to attend regularly.

that over the top franz writing style was still there in the 1980's although i've heard he wasn't actually doing much writing by then.

but his style was definitely picked up and imitated for many years beyond its wacky, outlandish peak of the the 50's - 70's.

Earnest

While I keep in mind that this thread is about the writing style of Fred Franz rather than the legitimacy or otherwise of the Catholic Church, I would just note the similarity between the stance of the Watchtower that when something is right then it is due to study of the Bible and direction of the holy spirit and when it is wrong it is because they are not inspired and can make mistakes, and that of the Catholic Church which declares it is right because it can trace its authority back to Peter but when it gets it wrong then it is just human failure and nothing to do with the church. Both are a cop-out.

72

Did the Fred Franz style of writing cease after he died?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

i was completely out by 1991 and 1989 would have been the last time i had to attend regularly.

that over the top franz writing style was still there in the 1980's although i've heard he wasn't actually doing much writing by then.

but his style was definitely picked up and imitated for many years beyond its wacky, outlandish peak of the the 50's - 70's.

Earnest

False end-time dates have been predicted every century since Christianity began, often by Catholic spiritual leaders such as Hippolytus of Rome, Irenaeus, Pope Sylvester II, Pope Innocent III, Pierre d'Ailly (a cardinal), and Nicholas of Cusa (a cardinal). It may be that none of these prophecies were spoken ex cathedra, but the suggestion that Catholics have never predicted the time of Christ's coming or the end of the world simply doesn't account for human nature.

13

Loyalty to the Governing Body? Timeline to Change

by blondie in

jw
friends

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/governing-body.php .

here is an example how the wts has "adjusted" scripture.

the governing body has gone as far as to change the text of micah 6:8 in their 2013 new world translation of the holy scriptures (nwt) in order to be able to demand loyalty.

Earnest

joey jojo : I would like to see the reasoning behind how they arrived at obedience instead of mercy.

It is never translated as "obedience", although the translation of "loyal love" or similar may be used to imply obedience is required. You may remember in the 1984 NWT the word was usually translated as "loving-kindness" with the footnote showing "loyal love". As discussed previously, there is no English word which conveys both thoughts in the same word.

It may be expressed as ‘goodness’ or ‘kindness’ or ‘mercy’, but it also conveys a sense of loyalty and mutual obligation within the context of relationships. In fact it is only used where there is a relationship between the parties concerned. But it is between individuals, or between God and man, not an organization.

13

Loyalty to the Governing Body? Timeline to Change

by blondie in

jw
friends

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/governing-body.php .

here is an example how the wts has "adjusted" scripture.

the governing body has gone as far as to change the text of micah 6:8 in their 2013 new world translation of the holy scriptures (nwt) in order to be able to demand loyalty.

Earnest

This change in translation was discussed previously here.

127

What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon in

on a trip to rome a few years ago i asked my friend (who is roman and jw) what the catholic faith thinks of jw.

he simply stated that jw is tolerated by the church but that really not much thought is given to them.

is there an official stance on jw by the catholics?

Earnest

Jeffro : it remains unverified and implausible given the absence of any Bergers in Ratzinger's family tree

That is not how maiden names work. As I said above, at present we know nothing about Stefanie Blabst’s maternal line (from Katharina Berger). Her mother's maiden name would not have been Berger, so the absence of Bergers in Ratzinger's family tree is irrelevant to the discussion.

127

What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon in

on a trip to rome a few years ago i asked my friend (who is roman and jw) what the catholic faith thinks of jw.

he simply stated that jw is tolerated by the church but that really not much thought is given to them.

is there an official stance on jw by the catholics?

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : Stefanie Blabst’s maternal line (from Katharina Berger) remains unconnected to any branch of the Pope’s known family tree.

At present we know nothing about Stefanie Blabst’s maternal line (from Katharina Berger), so until we do there is no reason not to accept her word on the connection.

I do agree that the Ratzingers did not live as near to the Bergers as she suggests. But I am more inclined to think that her memory of distances in her childhood is failing with age than that she is concocting the whole story.

While I found the evidence that Betty (Elizabeth Maria) Tauber was born in Moravia to be quite convincing, with the Tauber family being there for several generations, I now agree she was born in Natz-Schabs, South Tyrol, possibly in Raas where her daughter was born. The source I relied on for this information seems a bit dubious in light of your post.

127

What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon in

on a trip to rome a few years ago i asked my friend (who is roman and jw) what the catholic faith thinks of jw.

he simply stated that jw is tolerated by the church but that really not much thought is given to them.

is there an official stance on jw by the catholics?

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : To assess the plausibility of a familial connection to Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger), it's pertinent to examine the geographical proximity of Weilheim to the birthplaces of the Pope's maternal ancestors.

Geographical proximity would only be relevant if we knew that Katharina Blabst's mother, both her mother's parents, and all four of her mother's grandparents were born in Weilheim in Oberbayern, Bavaria. We know none of that. We only know where her mother was buried.

Consider the full spread of the Pope's maternal ancestors to see how location can change over a couple of generations.

Maria Peintner Rieger (Joseph Ratzinger's mother) was born in Muhlbach bei Oberaudorf, Bavaria.

Her mother, Maria Tauber-Peintner, was born in Raas, South Tyrol, Austria.

Her father, Isidore Rieger, was born in Welden, Augsburg, Bavaria.

Her maternal grandmother, Betty (Elizabeth Maria) Tauber, was born in Maehrisch-Weisskirchen, Moravia, present-day Czechoslavakia.

Her maternal grandfather, Anton Peter Peintner was born in Aica, South Tyrol, Austria.

Her paternal grandmother, Maria Anna Rieger was born in Welden, Augsburg, Bavaria.

His paternal grandfather, Johann Reib was born in Untergünzburg, Bayern, Bavaria.

If Joseph Ratzinger's maternal line was so widespread over three generations, it seems quite likely that of Stefanie Brzakovic would likewise be widespread. So with geographical proximity there are no fixed points to measure.

One other gem that I picked up was that Betty (Elizabeth Maria) Tauber, the Pope's great-grandmother, was the daughter of Jacob Tauber (b.1811) and Josefina Knopfelmacher (1819-1886). Josefina Knopfelmacher's nickname was "Peppi". I can only think that this gives credence to Stefanie Brzakovic's recall of Joseph Ratzinger's nickname.

127

What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon in

on a trip to rome a few years ago i asked my friend (who is roman and jw) what the catholic faith thinks of jw.

he simply stated that jw is tolerated by the church but that really not much thought is given to them.

is there an official stance on jw by the catholics?

Earnest

For those who have the time and interest in this research, it should be easy enough to establish whether Stefanie Brzakovic's mother, Katharina Blabst nee Berger (born 20 August 1894), was a cousin of Joseph Ratzinger's mother, Maria Ratzinger nee Peintner Rieger (born 8 January 1884 in Muhlbach bei Oberaudorf, Bavaria).

For the mothers to be cousins they must share the same grandparents. Both Katharina Berger and Maria Peintner Rieger have two sets of grandparents.

Maria Peintner Rieger's grandparents are Johann Reib (ca 1830) & Maria Anna Rieger (b.30/9/1829) and Anton Michael Peintner (ca 1820 - < 1855) & Elizabeth Maria Tauber (15/1/1834-1904, born in Moravia, Czechoslavakia).

Johann Reib & Maria Anna Riege married in Absam, Tyrol and owned a mill near Brixen, South Tyrol, before emigrating to Bavaria. They had a son, Isidore Rieger (22/3/1860-29/5/1912, born in Welden, Bavaria).

Anton Michael Peintner & Elizabeth Maria Tauber had a daughter, Maria Tauber-Peintner (29/6/1855-17/6/1930, born in Austria).

Isidore and Maria T-P married on 13 July 1885 in Austria and were the parents of Maria Ratzinger nee Peintner Rieger.

Katharina Berger's two sets of grandparents are a bit more difficult to establish. She lived from 20 August 1894 - 17 June 1962 and was buried at Weilheim in Oberbayern, Bavaria, Germany. She married Philipp Blabst (22/9/1897 - 19/2/1978) and Stefanie was born on 7 February 1927. But that is about as much as I have been able to establish.

Any budding genealogists happy to sort this out?