Yes, silentbuddha. Either the Ashkenazi from France, Germany and Eastern Europe/Russia, or the Sephardi from Spain and Portugal. None of whom had any birthright to live in Palestine except on religious grounds.
Earnest
JoinedPosts by Earnest
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39
What’s up with the modern Nation of Israel?
by DATA-DOG inbeing raised a dub i never voted.
i’m not a republican or a democrat, not a liberal or a conservative.. i’m pretty middle of the road.
i want everyone to have a fair shake if possible in this life, but i definitely don’t believe in forced equality, that’s just not possible.
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Earnest
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39
What’s up with the modern Nation of Israel?
by DATA-DOG inbeing raised a dub i never voted.
i’m not a republican or a democrat, not a liberal or a conservative.. i’m pretty middle of the road.
i want everyone to have a fair shake if possible in this life, but i definitely don’t believe in forced equality, that’s just not possible.
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Earnest
Anony Mous : How is Israel an apartheid state? The West Bank and Gaza is self-ruled ... after Israel GAVE them the territories.
The Apartheid Convention gives us some indications of whether apartheid is being practiced, in other words "acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them".
I would encourage you to read the report "Occupation, Colonialism, Apartheid?" by the Human Sciences Research Council of South Africa, who surprisingly do know something about apartheid, but I will summarise some of their findings. Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention cites six categories of 'inhuman acts' comprising the 'crime of apartheid'.
It found that Israel practiced three of these categories, namely (a) the denial of the right to life and liberty of person, (b) denial of basic human rights and freedoms, and (c) division of the population along racial lines.
Please read the document for the support of these assertions under the heading "E. Findings on Apartheid".
Israel’s practices in the Occupied Palestinian Territories can be defined by three ‘pillars’ of apartheid.The first pillar derives from Israeli laws and policies that establish Jewish identity for purposes of law and afford a preferential legal status and material benefits to Jews over non-Jews. The product of this in the Occupied Palestinian Territories is an institutionalised system that privileges Jewish settlers and discriminates against Palestinians on the basis of the inferior status afforded to non-Jews by Israel. At the root of this system are Israel’s citizenship laws, whereby group identity is the primary factor in determining questions involving the acquisition of Israeli citizenship. The 1950 Law of Return defines who is a Jew for purposes of the law and allows every Jew to immigrate to Israel or the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The 1952 Citizenship Law then grants automatic citizenship to people who immigrate under the Law of Return, while erecting insurmountable obstacles to citizenship for Palestinian refugees. Israeli law conveying special standing to Jewish identity is then applied extra-territorially to extend preferential legal status and material privileges to Jewish settlers in the Occupied Palestinian Territories and thus discriminate against Palestinians. The review of Israel’s practices under Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention provides abundant evidence of discrimination against Palestinians that flows from that inferior status, in realms such as the right to leave and return to one’s country, freedom of movement and residence, and access to land. The 2003 Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law banning Palestinian family unification is a further example of legislation that confers benefits to Jews over Palestinians and illustrates the adverse impact of having the status of Palestinian Arab. The disparity in how the two groups are treated by Israel is highlighted through the application of a harsher set of laws and different courts for Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories than for Jewish settlers, as well as through the restrictions imposed by the permit and ID systems.
The second pillar is reflected in Israel’s grand policy to fragment the Occupied Palestinian Territories for the purposes of segregation and domination. This policy is evidenced by: Israel’s extensive appropriation of Palestinian land, which continues to shrink the territorial space available to Palestinians; the hermetic closure and isolation of the Gaza Strip from the rest of the Occupied Palestinian Territories; the deliberate severing of East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank; and the appropriation and construction policies serving to carve up the West Bank into an intricate and well-serviced network of connected settlements for Jewish-Israelis and an archipelago of besieged and non-contiguous enclaves for Palestinians. That these measures are intended to segregate the population along racial lines in violation of Article 2(d) of the Apartheid Convention is clear from the visible web of walls, separate roads, and checkpoints, and the invisible web of permit and ID systems, that combine to ensure that Palestinians remain confined to the reserves designated for them while Israeli Jews are prohibited from entering those reserves but enjoy freedom of movement throughout the rest of the Palestinian territory.
The third pillar upon which Israel’s system of apartheid in the Occupied Palestinian Territories rests is its ‘security’ laws and policies. The extrajudicial killing, torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment and arbitrary arrest and imprisonment of Palestinians, as described under the rubric of Article 2(a) of the Apartheid Convention, are all justified by Israel on the pretext of security. These policies are State-sanctioned, and often approved by the Israeli judicial system, and supported by an oppressive code of military laws and a system of improperly constituted military courts. Additionally, this study finds that Israel’s invocation of ’security’ to validate sweeping restrictions on Palestinian freedom of opinion, expression, assembly, association and movement also often purports to mask a true underlying intent to suppress dissent to its system of domination, and thereby maintain control over Palestinians as a group
Anony Mous : Read the history, not just what the media tells you. There is no Palestine, never was ...
In the first place, I don't need to read what the media tells me. I was there. I could see how Israelis treated Arabs. I had walked from one apartheid state into another. No one needed to tell me that.
Secondly, history shows that Jews made up 7% of the population of Palestine in 1914. with Moslems comprising the largest segment of the population. To say "there is no Palestine, there never was" displays such ignorance I cannot believe you were ever one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The reason the number of Jews in Palestine increased was the Balfour Declaration during the First World War which allowed for "a national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine in exchange for support from the Zionists.
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39
What’s up with the modern Nation of Israel?
by DATA-DOG inbeing raised a dub i never voted.
i’m not a republican or a democrat, not a liberal or a conservative.. i’m pretty middle of the road.
i want everyone to have a fair shake if possible in this life, but i definitely don’t believe in forced equality, that’s just not possible.
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Earnest
LoveUniHateExams : Palestinians living within Israel do have full rights, as far as I'm aware.
It reminds me of South Africa where, during the apartheid years, the majority black population were assigned areas devoid of industry and cities where they were entitled to live. When I left South Africa in 1987 (during apartheid) my first stop was Israel and the similarity between the two countries in their treatment of the underclass was remarkable. No wonder Israel was one of the few rogue nations that supported South Africa despite UN sanctions to end apartheid.
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In my country the preaching work is over
by cookiemaster inthe jws in my country can't preach to anyone these days and they're going crazy.
i live in romania and initially during the covid-19 lockdown they were very enthusiastic about preaching.
they've since held daily "field service meetings" on zoom.
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Earnest
steve2 : What gives that they still don't use kingdom halls months later?
In a June 2020 letter to the Bodies of Elders in the UK they wrote:
Regardless of direction from secular authorities, the Kingdom Hall should not be used for any meetings until further direction is received from the branch office. This applies even if the secular authorities begin to ease certain restrictions in the near future. Adjustments by the secular authorities do not automatically mean there are adjustments to theocratic activities. If the body of elders believes there is an exceptional need to use the Kingdom Hall, such as for a judicial committee, a funeral, or a wedding, two elders should call the Service Department and explain the recommendation of the body of elders.
I expect this policy holds true in NZ too.
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1919 2013 2020 and the Slave
by Jerryh ini was never a jw but i lurk in this forum occasionally, trying to rescue some family.
i will spare you those details.. jw.org and jwfacts are there with youtubes out the wazoo but i would appreciate your thought on this.. i know there are contradictions plenty but this is foundational, blatant and current.
i know they typically just blow off.
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Earnest
Vanderhoven7 : What is the current teaching re 2018?
Should that be 1918?
Vanderhoven7 : The anointed dead were raised to heavenly life in the spring and the churches of Christendom were rejected in the fall of [1918]
No. That is no longer current Watchtower understanding.There is a full discussion in the Watchtower of January 1, 2007 which says (in part):
Could it, then, be reasoned that ...the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began ... in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures. ... God’s Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ’s presence.
As regards the rejection of the churches of Christendom, Jesus inspected and cleansed the temple between 1914 and the beginning of 1919. So it was only in 1919 that it became evident Babylon the Great had fallen. (See Watchtower March 2016 and Watchtower July 15, 2013).
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1919 2013 2020 and the Slave
by Jerryh ini was never a jw but i lurk in this forum occasionally, trying to rescue some family.
i will spare you those details.. jw.org and jwfacts are there with youtubes out the wazoo but i would appreciate your thought on this.. i know there are contradictions plenty but this is foundational, blatant and current.
i know they typically just blow off.
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Earnest
Longlivetherenegades : The problem here is ON COMING, the initial task was given when he LEAVES, when the master returns, he confirms is diligence to initial task and REWARDS the slave with appointment all over belongings just like the other illustrations
Thanks for explaining it clearer. I understand where you are coming from.
Matthew 24:45 says "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?"
The slave was only given the task to give the domestics their food at the proper time when the master appointed him over the domestics. That wasn't when he left in 33 C.E., it was at the time of his parousia in 1914, with the appointment happening in 1919 after the inspection of the temple.
Then, having given the slave the task to feed the domestics in 1919, vs 46 says the slave is happy if the master, on arriving (during the great tribulation), finds him doing so. He then appoints him over all his belongings.
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1919 2013 2020 and the Slave
by Jerryh ini was never a jw but i lurk in this forum occasionally, trying to rescue some family.
i will spare you those details.. jw.org and jwfacts are there with youtubes out the wazoo but i would appreciate your thought on this.. i know there are contradictions plenty but this is foundational, blatant and current.
i know they typically just blow off.
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Earnest
Jerryh : do you have a reference for [stating] "at death they lose membership of the "faithful and discreet slave" body"
I really based that on the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses that the "faithful and discreet slave" only exists as a composite group while the individual members are part of the anointed "domestics" (who are also fed spiritually by the slave).
So, if you are no longer a part of that composite group [of anointed brothers serving at world headquarters who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food], ipso facto you lose membership of the "faithful and discreet slave" body.
But I had a look around in the literature and there are many places where it specifies that the "faithful and discreet slave" is made up of anointed Christians on earth. (Watchtower 02/01/75 p.77 para.4; 05/15/95 p.16 para.2; 03/15/02 p.14 para.4; 03/01/04 p.10 para.9; 11/01/07 p.30 para.12; 02/15/09 p.24 para.2; 06/15/09 p.22 para.11; 10/15/09 p.15 para.14; "Organized to do Jehovah's Will", 2019, pp.17-23 para.4).
As an example, the 1975 Watchtower referred to above says :
As a congregation, body or group, the anointed, spirit-begotten brothers of Jesus Christ, while on earth, are called his “faithful and discreet slave,” or servant.
The only place I could find that suggested the "faithful and discreet slave" retained membership after death was a commentary on Revelation published in 1918 entitled The Finished Mystery. In commenting on Revelation 8:3 it says:And another angel. - Not the "voice of the Lord," mentioned in the preceding chapter, but the corporate body - the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, which Pastor Russell formed to finish his work. This verse shows that, though Pastor Russell has passed beyond the veil, he is still managing every feature of the Harvest work.
However, that idea didn't retain currency and hasn't been held by Jehovah's Witnesses for at least ninety years.
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1919 2013 2020 and the Slave
by Jerryh ini was never a jw but i lurk in this forum occasionally, trying to rescue some family.
i will spare you those details.. jw.org and jwfacts are there with youtubes out the wazoo but i would appreciate your thought on this.. i know there are contradictions plenty but this is foundational, blatant and current.
i know they typically just blow off.
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Earnest
Listener : Part of the FDS have already gone to heaven, according to their teachings, that includes Rutherford, Knorr and Franz. What happened to their appointment?
The faithful and discreet slave is "a composite slave - a group working together as one body" (2012 Annual Meeting Report) whose members are, individually, domestics just like all the rest of Jesus' genuine followers (The Watchtower of July 2013, "Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?", para.13).
So, whether members of the "faithful and discreet slave" leave the group as a result of death or any other cause, they relinquish their appointment to the body.
The question arises, then, if they relinquish their appointment as part of the "faithful and discreet slave" at death, how can they get their appointment "over all his belongings" when they are resurrected to heavenly life during the great tribulation (as at death they lose membership of the "faithful and discreet slave" body)? The only answer I can see is that they simply share the reward of all anointed followers (see para.19 of the 2013 Watchtower referred to above) but that is not particularly satisfying as exegesis.
I hope I haven't lost you, Jerryh, but their adjustment in understanding of the "faithful and discreet slave" has created as many questions as it resolved,
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1919 2013 2020 and the Slave
by Jerryh ini was never a jw but i lurk in this forum occasionally, trying to rescue some family.
i will spare you those details.. jw.org and jwfacts are there with youtubes out the wazoo but i would appreciate your thought on this.. i know there are contradictions plenty but this is foundational, blatant and current.
i know they typically just blow off.
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Earnest
Longlivetherenegades : In all those slave illustrations, it was when the MASTER was LEAVING, TRAVELLING e.t.c that he handed out tasks to his slaves not when he RETURNED.
While it is true that the parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30) does start off "when a man was about to travel abroad", the Watchtower of March 15, 2015 discussed the parables of Matthew 24 & 25 and identified the slaves in this parable as representing all his anointed followers since Pentecost 33 C.E. They are expecting the "master of the slaves" to come and settle accounts towards the end of the great tribulation.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not identify these slaves with the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45-47, and it can be seen when reading the verses prior to vs 45 (vss 32-44) that they refer to the coming (not going) of the Son of Man.
Jehovah's Witnesses make a distinction between the parousia (rendered as 'coming' in some translations) referred to in Matthew 24:3, and his arrival or coming (forms of the Greek verb, er′kho·mai.) referred to in Matthew 24:30, 42, 44 which they expect during the great tribulation (Watchtower July 15, 2013, pp.23-27).
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California passes bill lessening penalty for pedophiles having sex with willing kids.
by mickbobcat ini was wondering about this.
if california or other far left groups in charge would push for making pedophiles quote normal unquote.
so it passed but has yet to be signed by newsom.
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Earnest
mickbobcat : If the liberals are correct on this than if you are 10 and murder you go to big boy jail.
WIC 602 (b)(1).says that "Any minor who is under 12 years of age when he or she is alleged to have committed [murder] is within the jurisdiction of the juvenile court, which may adjudge the minor to be a ward of the court.
Whether the liberals are correct on this or not.