Earnest

Joined

• started 51 topics
• posted 2,248 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Earnest

• 
  11

  Links to articles of letter of recomendation

  by jojorabbit in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am new to this forum.

  i was a former jehovah's witness for many years.

  i have a question maybe some of you can help me with.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  I remember that students who were baptised were referred to as "letters of recommendation" for those who studied with them, as JW_Researcher said. The term "letter of recommendation" certainly comes from 2 Corinthians 3:1-3, but I think the idea that you would be a person who would make it through the end times comes from 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 :

  Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will be shown for what it is, for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire, and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one has built. If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; if anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved; yet, if so, it will be as through fire.
• 
  28

  Shocking Letter Reveals Jehovah's Witnesses True Beliefs! - YouTube 'xjw curious'

  by Mace.Bean in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  youtube's 'xjw curious,' pete corbeil, reads proselytizing letter written by a pimo jw who simply shares current watchtower teachings like no other jw.

  use google drive link below to print your own copies of this letter.

  (114) shocking letter reveals jehovah's witnesses true beliefs!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Disillusioned JW : ... a letter which apparently addresses 'JUDGE' J. F. RUTHERFORD as "MR. COWARD"!

  This seems most unlikely as he praises the pamphlet written by Rutherford. I would suggest the key is that he thanks "Mr Coward" for the [pamphlet] "you were kind enough to send me", that "thanks to your interview" he was prepared to read it with an open mind, and that he writes from the West Indies.

  The Proclaimers book records that Evander J. Coward was sent to Panama by Russell in 1911 and then to the Caribbean islands including St. Lucia, Dominica, St. Kitts, Barbados, Grenada, and Trinidad. He obviously made an impression because when Rutherford was in prison, concerned about the WT Society, he recommended that Coward be appointed president! (Watchtower, October 2019).
  
• 
  16

  Some notes on early Christianity - its evolution and "sacred text"

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the scope of this site, it’s not possible to go too deeply into historical research in a single post but we can give the flavour of things formerly hidden from us when we were jws.. like most things, christianity evolved.. it has unseen roots but many visible branches, 40,000 is the often quoted number!

  there never was a moment when it arrived fully formed in the middle of the first century.

  its roots in folk mysteries were deliberately concealed by fourth and fifth century christian leaders.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Disillusioned JW : The expression of "by divine providence" is the wording of the WT's NWT.

  That will teach me to compare translations before quoting what I am familiar with. I did find that Young's Literal Translation (1898) reads similarly to the NWT - "the disciples also were divinely called first in Antioch Christians" - but certainly most translations make no reference to divinity in that passage.

  I wondered why the NWT read differently and found a Question from Readers which discussed it. There it says :

  The translation so reads because that is what the original Greek word seems to mean. The verb chrematízo in question occurs nine times and the noun chrematismós occurs once, and by referring to these occurrences and noting how the translation reads in each one, you will appreciate that these Greek words are always used in connection with what is from God and hence divine in that sense. See Matthew 2:12, 22; Luke 2:26; Acts 10:22; 11:26; Romans 7:3; Hebrews 8:5; 11:7; 12:25, and Romans 11:4.

  In Vincent's Word Studies it says that chrematísai originally meant to transact business, to have dealings with; thence, in the course of business, to give audience to, to answer, from which comes its use to denote the responses of an oracle; a divine advice or warning. See Acts 10:22; and compare Matthew 2:12; Hebrews 11:7. Later, it acquires the meaning to bear a name; to be called, with the implication of a name used in the ordinary transactions and intercourse of men; the name under which one passes.
• 
  16

  Some notes on early Christianity - its evolution and "sacred text"

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the scope of this site, it’s not possible to go too deeply into historical research in a single post but we can give the flavour of things formerly hidden from us when we were jws.. like most things, christianity evolved.. it has unseen roots but many visible branches, 40,000 is the often quoted number!

  there never was a moment when it arrived fully formed in the middle of the first century.

  its roots in folk mysteries were deliberately concealed by fourth and fifth century christian leaders.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Disillusioned JW : The site mentioned above says (and shows) that the Codex Sinaiticus, the Codex Vaticanus, and the Codex Beza each say "The disciples were first called Chreistians in Antioch ..."

  Interestingly, these codices do not all read the same. Codex Sinaiticus reads chrestian in the three places the word "christian(s)" occurs (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). But codex Vaticanus and codex Bezae read chreistian, and codex Alexandrinus reads christian. All three words sound much the same but there was obviously some confusion about the term used.
  

  Harnack discusses the use of chrestians by Tacitus in his Mission and Expansion of Christianity, pp.410-414

  We now come to the name "Christians," which became the cardinal title of the faith. The Roman authorities certainly employed it from the days of Trajan downwards (cp. Pliny and the rescripts, the "cognitiones de Christianis"), and probably even forty or fifty years earlier (1 Pet. iv.16; Tacitus), whilst it was by this name that the adherents of the new religion were known among the common people (Tacitus; cp. also the well-known passage in Suetonius).

  A word in closing on the well-known passage from Tacitus (Annal., xv. 44) ... Hitherto, however, the statement of Tacitus has appeared rather unintelligible, for he begins by ascribing the appellation of "Christians" to the common people, and then goes on to relate that the author of the name was Christ, in which case the common people did a very obvious and natural thing when they called Christ's followers "Christians." Why, then, does Tacitus single out the appellation of "Christian" as a popular epithet? ... in my judgment the enigma has now been solved by means of a fresh collation of the Tacitus MS. which shows, as I am convinced from the facsimile, that the original reading was "Chrestianos," and that this was subsequently corrected (though "Christus" and not "Chrestus" is the term employed ad loc.). This clears up the whole matter. The populace, as Tacitus says, called this sect "Chrestiani," while he himself is better informed (like Pliny, who also writes "Christian"), and silently corrects the mistake in the spelling of the names, by accurately designating its author as "Christus". Blass had anticipated this solution by a conjecture of his own in the passage under discussion, and the event has proved that he was correct.

  My conclusion is that while they were initially called "christians" at Acts 11:26, as the expression became common others who heard it adapted it to "chrestions" as they misheard and didn't understand the origin of the term. If the writer of Acts had used any term other than "christians", it would not have made sense that the appellation was "by divine providence".
• 
  16

  Some notes on early Christianity - its evolution and "sacred text"

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the scope of this site, it’s not possible to go too deeply into historical research in a single post but we can give the flavour of things formerly hidden from us when we were jws.. like most things, christianity evolved.. it has unseen roots but many visible branches, 40,000 is the often quoted number!

  there never was a moment when it arrived fully formed in the middle of the first century.

  its roots in folk mysteries were deliberately concealed by fourth and fifth century christian leaders.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Disillusioned JW, thanks for your research on the origin of the use of Chrestos instead of Christos. However, it isn't as clear as it first seems to be.
  

  First of all, your last post relates to the use of chrestos by Marcion. It says

  At this early time, there is some confusion about the correct spelling for "Christian." It is known that Marcion preferred to call Jesus the "Chrestos" (which means the Kind or Helpful One). "… [T]he spelling for 'Chrestos' (=the Good one) [is] derived from an ancient inscription to a Marcionite synagogue" (Daniel Jon Mahar. English Reconstruction and Translation of Marcion's version of To The Galatians. p. 1).

  The book by Daniel Mahar, English Reconstruction and Translation of Marcion's version of To The Galatians, renders Marcion's version of Galations 1:1 as "Paul an apostle, not of men nor through man, but through Isu Chrestos ...", but in fact that is not what Marcion wrote.
  

  The earliest record we have of what Marcion wrote is by Tertullian in his treatise "Against Marcion". There he writes (in Latin) in book 5, chapter 1, para.3 that according to Marcion, Paul claims to be "an apostle not of men, nor by man, but by Jesus Christ [Iesum Christum]".

  Why, then, does Mahar render it as Isu Chrestos? He says in his introduction:

  The English translation itself is admittedly conjectural in places, as also are the notes.

  One such creative liberty is the name for the Marcionite Savior, "Isu Chrestos" - "Isu" derived on the designation of Syrian Marcionites, the spelling for "Chrestos" (=the Good one ) derived from an ancient inscription to a Marcionite synagogue.

  So his claim that Marcion used the term Chrestos is only conjecture based on an inscription to a "Marcionite synagogue" which he does not identify.

  I will try to address the other points you raise in a future post.
  
• 
  24

  New Discovery at Mt. Ebal: the earliest historical instance of the name of God

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  .

  https://youtu.be/guzbxzdpflo.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  While I welcome early evidence of Israel's occupation of Palestine and the use of the tetragrammaton, I think some caution should be exercised in accepting this report at face value. "Dr" Stripling, who directed the excavations, has no archaeological qualifications and the Associates for Biblical Research is a "christian apologetics ministry" so there may be some wishful thinking in the report.

  Essentially, we should wait for the "peer-reviewed paper presenting all the details" before reaching any conclusions, but even so, some claims are extraordinary. One of the epigraphers who studied the amulet noted that "the quality of the inscription is extraordinary, and that the person who wrote it would have been perfectly capable of writing the entire Pentateuch". They claim to have identified 40 letters on the inside of the amulet which include the word "curse" or "accursed" 10 times. That makes up 30 of the 40 letters. The remaining letters are used to write "God", "die" and "YHW". The Pentateuch is made up of 8,500+ words so the ability to write four words indicates some literacy but hardly qualifies them to write the Pentateuch.

  Apart from this consider what we actually know about the amulet. The amulet was not found in a stratified context and there doesn't seem to be anything other than the writing that can be used to date it. At the presentation there were no images shown of what the writing looked like, only a drawing by Gershon Galil. The writing, described as proto-alphabetic, could be early Hebrew but it could as easily be early Ugaritic, Phoenician, Aramaic, Akkadian or any Semitic language. It is possible the claims of what is written are accurate, but until the images are published and epigraphers have an opportunity to examine them, it will remain the product of wishful thinking of people dependent on the funding they get for their endeavours.
  
• 
  25

  Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

  by ballistic in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

  this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

  the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Simon : One thing I find slightly odd, why isn't the mother guilty of failing to report it?

  While the mother may have had a social responsibility to report the abuse, she was not legally obliged to do so. Those legally obliged to report ("mandated reporters") are most professionals in education, health care, law enforcement and social work. These professionals are listed in the Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act, particularly in section 4 (Persons required to report). The exceptions are privileged communications between an attorney and his or her client, and a member of the clergy (or practitioner of any religious denomination) who hears a confession in his or her professional character or as a spiritual advisor (Section 735 ILCS 5/8-803).

  There may be a number of reasons her mother did not report it to the police. The perpetrator was a relative and lived with the family so that may have influenced her decision. He needed an interpreter in court so if they were immigrants that may also have been a factor. In addition, it seems that she also only knew of the initial abuse (which involved touching) and thought it had been dealt with and had ended.
  
• 
  20

  Am I Expected to Become One of Jehovah’s Witnesses if I Study the Bible With Them?

  by Ron.W. in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (ps.

  (ps.

  (ps.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  truth_b_known : I suppose it could be possible that there is someone who would study with Witnesses for let's say academic reasons only. If such a person made that known up front they would simply be directed to the Watchtower website. No study would be conducted.

  That is not always true. For example, George Chryssides who is a researcher on new religious movements, had a study over an extended period of time even though he made it clear he just wanted to learn about JWs.

  He subsequently wrote Historical Dictionary of Jehovah's Witnesses, The A to Z of Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jehovah's Witnesses Continuity and Change.
• 
  25

  Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

  by ballistic in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

  this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

  the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  The trial was concluded on Friday, March 18, and the two elders have been found guilty of Class A criminal misdemeanor for violating provisions of the state’s mandatory reporter law, as reported on JWD here. They will be sentenced next Friday, 25th March.

  In an earlier post I commented to jhine that we will know whether anyone cared and whether they acted responsibly when the case was held. Whether or not they cared the court has found they did not act responsibly. The basis for this finding is interesting because they claimed the confession in 2006 fell under clergy-penitent privelege. This claim was upheld and the judge did not consider the confession of the perpetrator in his ruling, but only the statements made by the child and another church member (her mother), which were not confessions and so not protected by the confessional process.

  The elders also claimed that while the "most serious" acts occurred between 2013 and 2018, they knew nothing beyond the initial allegation they heard in 2006. In the hearing on March 11 it was reported that the initial allegation was that the perpetrator had been “touching [the] private parts” of the victim. The more serious acts, including rape, occurred later and were unknown to the elders.

  The lesson seems to be clear for any who rely on clergy-penitent privelege, whether JW, RC etc., is that even if the confession is protected disclosure in certain jurisdictions, if they hear of child sexual abuse from anyone apart from the penitent then that privelege falls away.
  
• 
  14

  Watchtower Dishonesty aka Theocratic Warfare

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to collect as many instances of watchtower dishonesty and pretense as possible.

  here is one from a bulgarian as an example of what i'm looking for.. are jehovah's witnesses disfellowshipped for receiving blood in a hospital?.

  helge fauskanger writes: "if witnesses can’t convince the elders that they are utterly “repentant” for this vampiric lapse of theirs, they will be held to have disassociated themselves from the religion — even if they never said a word about wanting to leave it!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Earnest

  Vanderhoven7 : Here is one from a Bulgarian ...

  Helge Fauskanger is Norwegian and best known as a Tolkien linguist. He has translated the first two chapters of Genesis into Quenya, an elvish language created by Tolkien.