Posts by Earnest

11

Beware of "organization." - They said it!

by punkofnice in

watchtower, september 15, 1895: "beware of "organization.

" it is wholly unnecessary.

the bible rules will be the only rules you will need.

Earnest

punky, while the September 15, 1985 Watchtower did advise to beware of "organization", I would be wary of picking a sentence and reaching conclusions on that alone. Two months later in the November 15, 1895 Watchtower there is an article Decently and in Order (1 Corinthians 14:40) where it says:

The apostles had much to say to the early church concerning order in the assemblies of the saints : and apparently we have been rather negligent of this wise counsel, feeling it to be of rather minor importance ... But it is safe to continue to heed very carefully "the things written aforetime for our admonition."

Then there are sub-headings 'Order in the Early Church', 'Order Necessary Today', 'The Apostolic Counsel Commended' etc. Anyway, the conclusion is "the true church, 'whose names are written in heaven,' is undoubtedly an organization, even in the present time, while it is subject to many vicissitudes - its membership constantly changing, etc., but it is a heavenly organization, not an earthly one."

38

Did you ever meet someone born in the 1800’s?

by Fisherman in

i met freddie franz who was born in the 1880’s and many others from the 1880’s.

but as a very small child i remember someone very old aged 106 and that person was born around 1856 which means that he was around people from the 1700’s..

Earnest

waton : Conversed with F .Franz, Br. Friend, ...
Sea Breeze : Waton, can you [clear] something up? Was Bro. Franz also called Br. Friend? If so, why?

Sea Breeze, on the offchance that waton doesn't see your query, Br. Friend was a translator, a traveling speaker, a director of Biblical dramas over radio station WBBR, and one of the founding instructors of Gilead where he taught Public Bible Speaking and Bible Research for seventeen years. He also voiced many of the characters in convention dramas in later years. His life story is in the April 15, 1967 Watchtower, pp.249-255 A Theatrical Spectacle to the World, Both to Angels and to Men and his obituary is in the June 1, 1983 Watchtower, p.30 Graduating to a Higher Assignment.

72

20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses

by Vanderhoven7 in

i don’t understand how jehovah’s witnesses can rightly claim:.

that less than 150,000 faithful christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.

unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.. .

Earnest

joao : What do you think?

joao (03/18/22) : I'm not forcing anything or being hard on anyone ...

joao (03/19/22) : I don't want anyone to be forced to do (or not do) anything they don't want to.

joao (08/16/22) : Just like my mother-in-law didn't care about reading my dissociation letter. She should think that she will soon need me to change her diapers! Or perhaps I'll tell her to ask the WT or the GB or their friends to do it.

3

Without Warning & Only Sometimes

by Earnest in

another biography will be published on 18th august 2022 - without warning & only sometimes by kit de waal who writes about her childhood in a mixed-race family in 1960's birmingham (uk).

it is not only about jws but her "descriptions of church meetings are deliciously evocative" (the guardian 08/12/22) :.

“time does not pass.

Earnest

Not likely the same congregation, Stan. In the reading this morning she says they lived in Moseley, probably Sparkhill, and so she would have attended the Moseley congregation. She describes it as "an old building in a shabby part of south Birmingham [which] is cold and damp with hard seats, paraffin heaters, crackling lights. We sit in rows of six and it begins with a song ... Two hours on a Thursday, two hours on a Sunday."

3

Without Warning & Only Sometimes

by Earnest in

another biography will be published on 18th august 2022 - without warning & only sometimes by kit de waal who writes about her childhood in a mixed-race family in 1960's birmingham (uk).

it is not only about jws but her "descriptions of church meetings are deliciously evocative" (the guardian 08/12/22) :.

“time does not pass.

Earnest

Another biography will be published on 18th August 2022 - Without Warning & Only Sometimes by Kit de Waal who writes about her childhood in a mixed-race family in 1960's Birmingham (UK). It is not only about JWs but her "descriptions of church meetings are deliciously evocative" (The Guardian 08/12/22) :

“Time does not pass. The clock does not move … I live with the dread that one day when my young muscles rebel, can take no more stillness and the brutal confinement of my very self, I will stand and strip naked and burst out of my skin. Not today, please not today.”

BBC Radio 4 will be reading exerpts from it each day this week (Monday - Friday, 15 - 19 August at 9:45 BST) and repeated (Tuesday - Saturday, 16 - 20 August at 00:30 BST).

21

Dr. Bart Ehrman Live Webinar Did Jesus Call himself God?

by Diogenesister in

there's a live webinar with dr. ehrman on the subject of the divinity of jesus.

folks will be able to put questions directly to dr. bart, the cost is $14.00 with the webinar covering the following topics:.

• soon after jesus’ death, his disciples claimed that he was god .

Earnest

Disillusioned JW, the link you provided to the Cista Mystica website is no longer accessible, but I was able to access the same material here. It maintains that the term 'christian' does not occur until codex Alexandrinus, which it suggests may be later than the 5th century C.E., and that prior to this the term 'chrestian' was invariably used.

However, P72 (also known as P.Bodmer.VIII) is a manuscript dated to the third or fourth century which contains the two letters of Peter. At 1 Peter 4:16 he writes "But if he suffers as a Christian, let him not feel shame ..." and P72 renders this as "ei de xristianos me eschunestho", so it is not true that the term 'christian' only occurred much later. You can actually see the manuscript on the Vatican Library website here, with 1 Peter 4:16 at the top of p.19.

Why then, is there early use of the term xrestianos? In the book Lettered Christians: Christians, Letters, and Late Antique Oxyrhynchus, 2012, by Lincoln H. Blumell he explains (p.37):

While the epithet "Christian" certainly appears to have been derived from the word "Christ", to an outsider who might not have been necessarily familiar with the association [of Christians] it sometimes appears that it was taken to have an association with the adjective xrestos (good) ... it is not always clear if such a distinction is being made consciously or whether it is simply a mispronunciation.

99

onacruise - Craig Mills 1952-2011

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i was given the link to a bit of information regarding on old poster/moderator of this forum.

i was not sure of the validity of the information so have been trying to find out if it is true.. earlier today craig's estranged wife, kate, (bikerchic) confirmed that craig died at his home on aug 10, 2011.. i am sure that many people here remember craig's time here and how he went out of his way to offer support to posters, even calling them, to give whatever help he could as they adjusted to their post-jw lives.. i know many people here will grieve his loss.. --------------.

ps i tried posting this earlier but the computer i was working with would not allow the posts.

Earnest

72

20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses

by Vanderhoven7 in

i don’t understand how jehovah’s witnesses can rightly claim:.

that less than 150,000 faithful christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.

unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.. .

Earnest

Vanderhoven7 : Why not between 1916 and 1943?

It is true they don't have a clue exactly when it happened, only that it must have been after the war in heaven, and before the great crowd was identified.

The terminus post quem of 1914 is because the war that broke out in heaven (Rev.12:7) did not include the holy ones, unlike the later battle with the nations (Rev.17:14), and so it is inferred the first resurrection had not yet occurred.

The terminus ad quem of 1935 is discussed in the same Watchtower article, para, 10,11. As the identity of the great crowd was revealed in 1935, the first resurrection must have already occurred (Rev. 7:13,14).

72

20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses

by Vanderhoven7 in

i don’t understand how jehovah’s witnesses can rightly claim:.

that less than 150,000 faithful christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.

unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.. .

Earnest

Vanderhoven7 : Yes, the current teaching is that the Apostle Peter and the rest of the anointed who died were raised to heavenly life in the spring of 1918.

The current teaching is that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935. Could it have been in the spring of 1918? The Watchtower of January 1, 2007, p.28, para.12 says :

That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Earnest

Thanks for that, TD. Would you be willing to identify the reference works so I could consult them myself.